I Here you...but if they are disregarding the other 10 people who share in the meeting's stories,'s then it;ll just take time for them to grasp that. I do a real good job in my pitch about touching many bases about how the nature of Alcoholism is for Me...but I've had a lot of practice....but i never know what others get out of it. I have not found my drunkalogue interesting to talk about at a meeting in many years. But for so many thats the only story they have sober that they are willing to openly communicate.So Yes!! is the answer I'd give to your question and as I have a very checkered story... that I needed to understand early on..... I found being willing to disclose things at meeting our after a meeting good (practice)
Billy

Not necessarily, like you said.

I was drinking just one beer a day, then went to two, then 3 and by then, I knew I had a drinking problem because I couldn't drink at home, it had to be after work while driving home, from there it went to before work and then I graduated to drinking during work but I think the most I ever drank was 3-4 16 ounce beers a day most of the time.

It was the cause and affect relationship I had with alcohol that was the driving force with me getting help from AA. My drinking led to loss of job, wife was ready to divorce me, financial problems were burying us, job stresses, I honestly didnt want to live anymore at the time, but alot has changed thanks to AA and especially the 12 steps. My spiritual development continues.....

God Bless!

Many people in AA (and outside) have an opinion on what makes them (or someone else) alcoholic.
I've learned that what makes me alcoholic is the effect it had. And that always started to happen immediately....with the first drink. What I believe makes me alcoholic is once I take that first drink, I'm powerless over what I do next. Sometimes when drinking I would be able to put down that drink and go home. But that was the *exception* and when I was "controlling" my drinking I was very uncomfortable. I believe that there are no normal drinkers who have to worry about controlling their drinking. And that to me, not the amount, is the essence of my alcoholism.

Sticky, I can identify. I remember when I was in counseling, I was told alcoholism begins even before you take that drink. I don't remember the reasoning behind it except that I think it has to do with intention and wanting that drink to numb a certain, negative feeling that is hurting you.

That is why the support of AA is so important.

Seems to me G8 some people will always hear and start with the things they don't identify with...like Billy was intimating I bet the other sharers that night didn't all mention 21 glasses. And in a room where the emotions were talked about someone will always say "gee im not like that, I just drink 2 btls of vodka a day" :) You can't hear until you can hear
..

Seems to me the important thing is to share whatever is true for us in the hope one other might identify...and trust that somebody else will say whatever else needs to be said :)

P

Very true. Important for me to share so that someone can relate to alcoholism not my escapades of drinking. I very nearly decided I wasn't an alcoholic because of the utter nonsense I heard in some meetings. People love war stories because listening to them is unchallenging and telling them is an ego trip. They use identification as an excuse but identification should be with the mental, physical and spiritual aspects of alcoholism not the drinking stories and drama. Don't think I have ever shared about quantity in a meeting, irrelevant as far as I am concerned and if someone thinks it isn't they haven't understood alcoholism. Sadly I am continually shocked by the number of people in AA who have been around years and don't understand alcoholism!

Your post set me thinking about people I used to drink with and who often drank as much as I did and some more. These people sometimes got into serious trouble because of drinking but yet they were not alcoholics and could stop drinking on their own willpower at any time.

I occasionally made a point of observing these heavy drinkers and their approach to alcohol was certainly different to mine. For example, a taxi (cab) would arrive for one of them after he had ordered a drink and paid for it and he would give the drink to someone else or leave it on the bar counter. At other times they would go to a bar and have one or two drinks and leave for home. Sometimes they would go for days or even weeks without drinking at all.

After many years of heavy drinking I arrived at a point where I had to have alcohol every day. As this was not normal drinking in anyone’s book, I had to make convincing excuses in order to justify it to myself. I later learned that this behaviour was the result of having developed a mental obsession for alcohol. The non-alcoholic people I drank with were not champagne drinkers but if they were, there are many of them who could easily have put away 21 glasses. Yet they did not have an obsession for alcohol which made them want to drink every day.

The other difference between me and my heavy drinking friends was that at some point as I crossed the line into alcoholism, I developed an abnormal reaction to alcohol which resulted in a craving for more once I took the first drink. I eventually developed a system of drinking that suited my requirements; it consisted of drinking enough but not more than needed most of the time. This scientific approach to drinking would have been reasonably successful except for the progressive nature of alcoholism. The drinks were spaced out over the day in a reasonably efficient manner and I usually looked a lot more sober than those ‘alcoholic’ friends who spent all day in the bar. However, as the condition progressed, it became necessary to consume larger quantities of alcohol in order to maintain the desired effect and that was where I parted company with my heavy-drinker friends.

Therefore, I became an alcoholic partly because I had developed an obsession of the mind for alcohol, an obsession which is now dormant and will remain so as long as I take the necessary action. I remain an alcoholic regardless of what action that I take, because I have an abnormal physical reaction to alcohol and regardless of how long I remain sober, that craving for more will develop if I take one drink.

Either by coincidence or as the result of guidance from a higher power, the first AA meeting that I attended was one where there was talk about a solution to the problem.

I will always remember what Jack M in Lexington Park, Md said to me years ago ----- Identify with the feelings not the story. He took me through Bill's story in the Big Book and trough the stories in the back. He helped me realize that 1) Only I can say I am an alcoholic, and 2) It is how much I drank, what it did to me, and how I felt afterwards that helped me realize I was an alcoholic.

If this person is identifying with the "leader" in that an alcoholic must drink 28 glasses of any alcoholic beverage than your job is to show him what the Big Book says about this. He will probably not listen to you unless he sees it in black and white. I know I was that way in the beginning.

Been thinking about this in relation to the slow demise of the 12 step call at least where I live. There was a time where most people came to AA via making a call to the telephone service, receiving a call from someone in their local area and being properly 12th stepped. Now lots of people come to AA from finding a local meeting on the internet and they miss out on what could be a vital 12th step call. My sponsor and I always meet up with someone prior to taking then to a meeting and talk to them about alcoholism, the fact that we have a solution in AA, what meetings are all about etc. Then we take them to a meeting, we don't rely on the meeting to do the work described in the big book.

I wonder how many people find a meeting on the internet, turn up, don't understand or misinterpret what they are hearing and never come back because they have made a decision about AA based on less than complete information.

Very sad.

I believe if I share the mess then I am enabling another to drink. I did not want to be an alcoholic and in early days I looked for any excuse to say I was not, therefore, I could continue with clear conscience. It was the differences that I hung onto.

Early days a member said to me "you can't be an alcoholic, I have spilled more than you drank". What I heard was you are not an alcoholic because you do not drink enough. At this point I was on my way to the pub to celebrate my new clarity.

Luckily another member whispered to me "funny how much he told you how much they spilled but not how much they drank", there went my clarity.

I honestly believe that if I share my experience and how the grog effected me then I send a clear message and in doing so to follow Dr Bob's philosophy keep it simple. When I put grog in I can not control how much I drink. (BB page 21 para 1). For me nothing more, nothing less.

G8

G8 last night one topic in the meeting was 'fishing stories'...if one person says they caught a tiddler, the next person caught a catfish. Then the next man catches a pike and we end up with a barracuda :)

Sooner or later folks start to feel uncomfortable. ..if they've never caught a great white they can't be a real fisherman :)

So whats the answer? The problem I think is comparison and the need we all feel to prove we belong in the Fishing club...that competitive edge creates problems IMO...but then again if we're going to have a fishing club we're going to have to talk about fish, sooner or later :)

Someone I met in a meeting in London made an impression on me. She was at the top table and said she never liked to do those because she didn't think she had a colourful enough story to tell...her drinking was quiet and uneventful...all the damage and drama was on the inside. Apparently her sponsor told her if she felt that way maybe she was 'sharing for effect'...to have a certain effect on the others in the room, instead of honestly telling her own story.

She went on to tell her story which included a comparatively the small amount of alcohol...but the way she told it, everyone identified...and it hit home because it was honest, nothing was exaggerated and nothing excluded...

Just some thoughts my friend no answers from me :)

P