Random Comments
After just posting a comment in Hoops' Journal, I realized something: The greatest gift I can give my son is not demand he love and respect me, but instead to encourage him to love and respect himself.
(I heard the "dawn-of-realization" come yesterday while my son was talking on-line to a friend, stating that all my son does right now is sleep and play games on his XBox 360 (he rarely leaves the house except to drive to the mailboxes to keep the battery in his car charged) and...
it's geting boring!
He's finally catching-on, on his own (without his parents badgering him) that there may be, and probably is, more to life than he is experiencing right now. To me, it's a good sign. The "sun" of action hasn't risen yet, but the sky is getting lighter, suggesting more light, and a new day, a different day. I like it.
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Change of topic:
So last night before I went to sleep, I chose to peruse a new book that I ordered and had sitting on the bookcase with two others; waiting for the right moment to read them. Looking through the Table of Contents, in a book on overcoming Phobias and Anxiety (really, I got it for research for myself, and how to help others overcome the same thing), and guess what? At the very back is a short chapter on Co-dependency! How's that for 'snychronicity'? An accident? Fate? Of all the things to pick up, instead of one on Grieving, or another on Depression, my hand picks up the one on "Freedom from Fear", and it has a chapter on Codependency as an adjunct to phobias and anxiety. How about that?
So what does it say? That "phobocs", because of their "people pleasing" focus, are likely to manifest codependent tendencies. And, other authors propose a number of definitions.
1. An excess focus on others.
2. A person who chronically neglects himself or herself in favor of a sick or needy other.
3. Someone who finds his or her identity exclusively in caring for others. (Like our mothers did to us, maybe?)
4. One who organizes his or her life around another person. (Same as 2.)
5. A loss of self (Identity) in favor of a sick, needy other.
6. An excessive attention to exciting, addicted, unhealthy, needy people.
The author, Howard Liebgold, M. D., continues by stating that "All codependents embrace three beliefs that perpetuate their disorder" (by the way, Dr. Liebglod admits that, as a physician, most physicians are codependent in that they seek to help sick people, as are any number of the many people in the helping professions; and he's no exception!):
1. "I don't deserve better. I am not worthy and will be lucky if I find anybody."
2. "I only deserve second best." A recent article described a young lady who was shot twice in the head and once in the shoulder by her boyfriend. She spent four months in the hospital but vowed that she loved him and would marry him when he got out of jail in twenty years. She said, "My friends told me I'm crazy, but they don't pay my bills. I love him and I'm going to marry him." Perhaps going on to the third belief might explain her behavior.
3. "I can't survive alone and I won't find another. I will buy your alcohol and drugs, I will call in work excuses to give you time to recover from your excess --- anythig to maintain our relationship." Sure he shot her three times, but that's better than not having anybody.
Codependent "love" is desperately needy love. It is love at any price. It is described as smothering, enmeshed, judgmental, conditional, undisciplined, unbalanced, dependent, manipulative, suspicious, jealous, exploitive, irresponsible, controlling, and restrictive. There are no clearly defined boundaries. The energies of the relationship are tilted toward one sick individual. (The sick codependent, it may seem the other way around, but I beleive it's the codependent that's really the sick one.)
The behavior continues in three cycles:
1. Rescurer: "I feel worth only when I abandon myself in favor of that desperately compromised other. The martyr role suits me well. I crave it." (Addiction?)
2. Victim: "As a result of my poor choice I become victimized. I suffer psychic, physical, and financial ruin. I resent it intensely. "After all I've done for you, I then become the..."
3. Persecutor: "I direct my anger at my hapless partner. If the relationship ends, I must find another very soon to fulfill my obligation to rescue and the cycle begins anew." (I believe this refers to the reason I chose my wifes, and other "partners". It certainly explains alot. However, as I'm changing, I'm appreciating my present wife more and more, for reasons that are NOT codependnet!)
Codependents tend to be crisis addicts. Codependents are emotional overreactors and they seek out partners who fulfill their requirements. It often leads to psychic exhaustion and destructive addictions (I've experienced this firsthand). One pays a high price for constantly assuming the role of rescuer.
The changes begin with re-writng the script:
1. From "I don't deserve better" to Yes I do!
2. From "I only desreve second best" to No I don't! I deserve the best!
3. From "I need to take care of the needy human because I will never find another" to No, I need to take care of myself and then I will find MANY others.
This is the time to "FACE" yourself (He continues):
Forgive---you did the best you could with the tools you had at the time.
Accept---yourself unconditionally with your faults, blemishes, phobias, or weight. We are all fallible people. It is human to fail and make mistakes and it IS okay (No matter what anyone else tries to convince you is true).
Care---for myself. It is important that I declare myself number one and start asking, "What is best for me?" Look in the mirror and say, "I love you unconditionally" and keep saying it until you mean it.
Esteem---myself. I am worthy...simply because I am born. I am worthy, independent of my accomplishments; and worthy becasue I claim it! I am worthy because I continue to strive and persevere. I don't need anyone to give me permission to esteem myself highly. It is my decision alone and I choose it.
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Apparently, the real abandonment we all fear here on DS is excessive SELF-abandonment. And we continue to do the very thing we fear, over and over.
Of course, I only read that one chapter; I still have to digest the rest of the book. Suffice to say that my codependecy is tied to a phobia.
One thing is for certain; Focusing on another is a sure sign that I'm not focusing on myself, which is what I really want to do.
Anyway, I thought it was worth sharing...
(I heard the "dawn-of-realization" come yesterday while my son was talking on-line to a friend, stating that all my son does right now is sleep and play games on his XBox 360 (he rarely leaves the house except to drive to the mailboxes to keep the battery in his car charged) and...
it's geting boring!
He's finally catching-on, on his own (without his parents badgering him) that there may be, and probably is, more to life than he is experiencing right now. To me, it's a good sign. The "sun" of action hasn't risen yet, but the sky is getting lighter, suggesting more light, and a new day, a different day. I like it.
******************************************************************************
Change of topic:
So last night before I went to sleep, I chose to peruse a new book that I ordered and had sitting on the bookcase with two others; waiting for the right moment to read them. Looking through the Table of Contents, in a book on overcoming Phobias and Anxiety (really, I got it for research for myself, and how to help others overcome the same thing), and guess what? At the very back is a short chapter on Co-dependency! How's that for 'snychronicity'? An accident? Fate? Of all the things to pick up, instead of one on Grieving, or another on Depression, my hand picks up the one on "Freedom from Fear", and it has a chapter on Codependency as an adjunct to phobias and anxiety. How about that?
So what does it say? That "phobocs", because of their "people pleasing" focus, are likely to manifest codependent tendencies. And, other authors propose a number of definitions.
1. An excess focus on others.
2. A person who chronically neglects himself or herself in favor of a sick or needy other.
3. Someone who finds his or her identity exclusively in caring for others. (Like our mothers did to us, maybe?)
4. One who organizes his or her life around another person. (Same as 2.)
5. A loss of self (Identity) in favor of a sick, needy other.
6. An excessive attention to exciting, addicted, unhealthy, needy people.
The author, Howard Liebgold, M. D., continues by stating that "All codependents embrace three beliefs that perpetuate their disorder" (by the way, Dr. Liebglod admits that, as a physician, most physicians are codependent in that they seek to help sick people, as are any number of the many people in the helping professions; and he's no exception!):
1. "I don't deserve better. I am not worthy and will be lucky if I find anybody."
2. "I only deserve second best." A recent article described a young lady who was shot twice in the head and once in the shoulder by her boyfriend. She spent four months in the hospital but vowed that she loved him and would marry him when he got out of jail in twenty years. She said, "My friends told me I'm crazy, but they don't pay my bills. I love him and I'm going to marry him." Perhaps going on to the third belief might explain her behavior.
3. "I can't survive alone and I won't find another. I will buy your alcohol and drugs, I will call in work excuses to give you time to recover from your excess --- anythig to maintain our relationship." Sure he shot her three times, but that's better than not having anybody.
Codependent "love" is desperately needy love. It is love at any price. It is described as smothering, enmeshed, judgmental, conditional, undisciplined, unbalanced, dependent, manipulative, suspicious, jealous, exploitive, irresponsible, controlling, and restrictive. There are no clearly defined boundaries. The energies of the relationship are tilted toward one sick individual. (The sick codependent, it may seem the other way around, but I beleive it's the codependent that's really the sick one.)
The behavior continues in three cycles:
1. Rescurer: "I feel worth only when I abandon myself in favor of that desperately compromised other. The martyr role suits me well. I crave it." (Addiction?)
2. Victim: "As a result of my poor choice I become victimized. I suffer psychic, physical, and financial ruin. I resent it intensely. "After all I've done for you, I then become the..."
3. Persecutor: "I direct my anger at my hapless partner. If the relationship ends, I must find another very soon to fulfill my obligation to rescue and the cycle begins anew." (I believe this refers to the reason I chose my wifes, and other "partners". It certainly explains alot. However, as I'm changing, I'm appreciating my present wife more and more, for reasons that are NOT codependnet!)
Codependents tend to be crisis addicts. Codependents are emotional overreactors and they seek out partners who fulfill their requirements. It often leads to psychic exhaustion and destructive addictions (I've experienced this firsthand). One pays a high price for constantly assuming the role of rescuer.
The changes begin with re-writng the script:
1. From "I don't deserve better" to Yes I do!
2. From "I only desreve second best" to No I don't! I deserve the best!
3. From "I need to take care of the needy human because I will never find another" to No, I need to take care of myself and then I will find MANY others.
This is the time to "FACE" yourself (He continues):
Forgive---you did the best you could with the tools you had at the time.
Accept---yourself unconditionally with your faults, blemishes, phobias, or weight. We are all fallible people. It is human to fail and make mistakes and it IS okay (No matter what anyone else tries to convince you is true).
Care---for myself. It is important that I declare myself number one and start asking, "What is best for me?" Look in the mirror and say, "I love you unconditionally" and keep saying it until you mean it.
Esteem---myself. I am worthy...simply because I am born. I am worthy, independent of my accomplishments; and worthy becasue I claim it! I am worthy because I continue to strive and persevere. I don't need anyone to give me permission to esteem myself highly. It is my decision alone and I choose it.
****************************************************************
Apparently, the real abandonment we all fear here on DS is excessive SELF-abandonment. And we continue to do the very thing we fear, over and over.
Of course, I only read that one chapter; I still have to digest the rest of the book. Suffice to say that my codependecy is tied to a phobia.
One thing is for certain; Focusing on another is a sure sign that I'm not focusing on myself, which is what I really want to do.
Anyway, I thought it was worth sharing...
Replies
There\'s more:
\"Codependents feel worthy only when they are needed. If I\'m not needed, I can worry. Worry feels like caring, but in essence is a painful, unproductive habit. Worry is an epidemic of hidden \"what if...\" questions. When you worry, you pay the emotional price as if the event is happening now. If worry does not lead to constructive behaviors, it serves no better purpose than to make you feel badly. Worry does nothing to solve tomorrow\'s problems, but robs today of its joy.
\"Worry is an old man with head bent, carrying a load of feathers and thinking it is lead.\" the result of this turmoil is frustration and anger. Frustration because I am trapped; I see no solution to my dilemma. I become angry --- angry with everyone and everything. I behave codependently because it makes me feel good. It doesn\'t work well, but it works. The incredible part is that we don\'t know why. We don\'t know we were born with a vulnerable phobic predisposition that leads us inexorably to our codependency. Your upbringing provided you with little effective problem solving or effective coping skills and you don\'t know that either. Like everyone else, you just do the best that you can with what little tools you possess.\"
I feel this is an observation that substantiates the idea that we are \"Crisis Addicts\"; we thrive off the crisis of anxiety that \'worrying\' creates for us.
Interesting, NO?
Interesting. I can see how having your son live with you (does he live with you?) might change things a bit, make things harder.
Yes, it is interesting, thriving off crisis. I don\'t know if I\'d say I feel like this how I used to, but I definitely still have a guilt complex. If anything I\'ve put more walls around myself, isolated myself if you know what I mean.
I need to begin opening up more again. But right now it isn\'t expedient because I\'m legitimately stuck at home with all these little children and they need me.
There\'s no point in feeling guilty for not doing more for others outside my home at this point. Something which I still sometimes feel. Interesting link between anxiety and codependency.
Anyway, yes
I don\'t consider it \'harder\'; we know where he is, he\'s not getting into trouble, drinking, driving, getting girl\'s pregnant, etc. And he\'s not ready yet. I think he\'s a late bloomer, like me. I tried college young, 19, and dropped out until I tried again 21, when most kids were graduating. My son is not familiar with his interests and desires yet. He\'s very isolated, like his mom and dad. He didn\'t do that well in school as far as socializing, and yet he seems pretty smart. He wants to learn about video-gaming, as an entertainment profession. So far he hasn\'t latched on to anything as a vocation or even a job. My wife and I are mildly concerned about his future, his ability to sustain himself, and at this point he is not ready to explore. Maybe we babied him too much; we\'re not social gadflys either, so I\'m sure he imprinted off us. It may make life more difficult for him, but then that\'s just the way it is. I\'m sure he\'ll find his way eventually; after all, look at his dad, I\'ve finally found my area of interest that I\'m seriously investing myself in. You do best at what you have an interest in; and I (a part of my personality) is not gong to force him to make any un-wise decisions about who he is just to satisfy my own discomfort. When he says he\'s uncomfortable, and wants help, then we\'ll help. He\'ll be 20 in April, and he\'s getting bored with his life right now. We each have our way of raising our \'children, and my wife and I are satisfied with who he is at the moment. We will support him in his evolution, in his own way, and in his own time.
I can feel the connection between codependency and anxiety. I remember going to the Dr. complaining about depression, and tiredness; and the Dr. prescribing a book on \"Adrenal Fatigue\". Adrenal fatigue is due to anxiety attacks; the adrenals are constantly being bombarded with demands for adrenaline due to stress and worry; which are created by thoughts. Thoughts like \"what will people think?\" and \"what if...?\". These thoughts, typical of codependents, are fright thoughts, and become habitual. In fact they begin to feel normal; the thing is they keep the body in a constant state of alert to \'fight, flee, or freeze\'. The body is in a constant state of threat, mainly imaginary, not real. The threat is from our own mind. In reading some more of this book (which is really simple and straightforward) it seems the brain reacts to fearful thoughts, just as it would to real events; it doesn\'t know the difference between truth and fiction. It reacts to anything you tell it! And the brain doesn\'t want to do two things: It doesn\'t want to die or be embarrassed. This book is really helpful. It connects our phobias to our phears, or our fobias to our fears, depending how you want to spell it. AND he goes to great lengths to reveal that our codependent proclivity to anxiety is GENETIC! We anxious people are usually extremely sensitive people, and it makes us extremely creative and imaginative---in creating fearful scenes in our imagination. Let me get a little further along in the book before I recommend it, but so far it\'s helping.
I already have the book on \"Highly Sensitive People\" that I read, feeling that it fit my description of myself. So a lot of this book seems to connect all the loose ends. In fact, he states just how many times anxiety, due to sensitivity, is mis-diagnosed as a symptom of some other illness. The way out for me is to treat myself for my \'phobias\', which are relatively simple to treat. We codependents are really suffering from our phobias, and the more we avoid facing our phears (fears) the stronger they get and the more we withdraw to avoid facing them. What we are really suffering from are panic attacks and the AVOIDANCE on any further PANIC attacks!
I hope you get the opportunity to open up more too, and the situation at home is, how can I say it softly...just temporary. In about five years your youngest will be in school, and you\'ll be doing the volunteer work at school, or not; maybe, if it interests you. My wife did that for about five years when she wasn\'t working. I do know that \'mothering\', as a \'profession\', is a full time job; involving many hours of dedicated service and stress; and it has its rewards. I did catch the \"stuck\" word in your comment. At least you\'ll be getting help from the older ones soon. I will say, once you go through this period, get it behind you, you may not volunteer to do it \'again\'.
You\'ve got a full-time job now, although it is with your own kids, so, like you say, there\'s no need to create feelings of guilt for yourself, other than \"Why are you being so self-centered by caring for your OWN kids when if you weren\'t so narcissistic you\'d be saving the WORLD and everyone else\'s kids, because they need your help. They can\'t do it on their own!\" (Or some codependent crap-talk like that. I\'m sure you have you own guilt-talk yourself. How dare you enjoy yourself when everyone else is so burdened and joyless.) Yep, we\'re well trained. No doubt about it. Time to change.
I like this new twist on codependency, as a phobia (fobia-
/fear) and an adrenaline-addicting habit. It\'s like being an alcoholic, except being addicted to adrenaline. Serotonin is a happy and calming brain drug, adrenaline eats it up and depletes it, causing more stress, and therefore need for more adrenaline.
I like this new information, but then I\'m a glutton for knowledge and system\'s analysis anyway...I\'m not ready to give up on recovery yet!
I too am a HSP, I shared about this at last nights slaa meeting. I was talking about the pain i have experienced in getting to recovery and grieving for that pain. I\'m so grateful for my recovery today and i feel blessed as i\'ve made some really lovely girlfrinds who have been my life line these last couple of months.
I\'m going to a rescue home for dogs today as i ant to adopt a little bichon frise called Harry. I recognise this need to take care of another even in wanting a dog as a companion. I\'ve also noticed i\'ve had similar physical reactions to the idea that are the same as when i am dating a new guy. I\'ve found it hard to concentrate at work as i\'m looking up info about dogs and i\'m skipping meals as i\'m excited and i have an upset tummy. Interesting hey! I would like to feel the calm that i had before i had this idea of getting a dog and i\'m praying for God\'s will in this lots. Bleesings and joy to you my dear friend.