ISTP
ISTP. Until a few days ago i would have had absolutely no idea as to what that stood for. Now i wonder as to what it truly means. On the surface i understand the concept, but how does / did it interplay with the fact that i was raped at a young age? And the bigger question; Does having that knowledge about me change anything? Is it possible to change? Should i want to? The ISTP of course is one of 16 possible results from the Myers-Briggs personality test. Usually i do not hold to online personality test. As a general rule they are sophomoric at best. This one however, was actually written by a couple of psychiatrists several years ago. The idea of a possibly valid personality test drew me in. The test is comprised of yes/no answers. Many of the questions seemed to point to one or another personality trait. I felt for certain that during the test i was making conflicting answers, even though i was answering as honestly as i could. It was obvious to me after i got the results that this test was much more sophisticated than it appeared on the surface. My results were not laughably wrong, oh no, by contrast they were hauntingly correct. Even more, they delved somewhat into the why my personality type does what we do, and the reasoning felt right. They shone a light onto my apparent inconsistency. These two excerpts are from two different web sites. The Mechanic As an ISTP, your primary mode of living is focused internally, where you deal with things rationally and logically. Your secondary mode is external, where you take things in via your five senses in a literal, concrete fashion. ISTPs have a compelling drive to understand the way things work. They're good at logical analysis, and like to use it on practical concerns. They typically have strong powers of reasoning, although they're not interested in theories or concepts unless they can see a practical application. They like to take things apart and see the way they work. ISTPs have an adventuresome spirit. They are attracted to motorcycles, airplanes, sky diving, surfing, etc. They thrive on action, and are usually fearless. ISTPs are fiercely independent, needing to have the space to make their own decisions about their next step. They do not believe in or follow rules and regulations, as this would prohibit their ability to "do their own thing". Their sense of adventure and desire for constant action makes ISTPs prone to becoming bored rather quickly. ISTPs are loyal to their causes and beliefs, and are firm believers that people should be treated with equity and fairness. Although they do not respect the rules of the "System", they follow their own rules and guidelines for behavior faithfully. They will not take part in something which violates their personal laws. ISTPs are extremely loyal and faithful to their "brothers". ISTPs like and need to spend time alone, because this is when they can sort things out in their minds most clearly. They absorb large quantities of impersonal facts from the external world, and sort through those facts, making judgments, when they are alone. ISTPs are action-oriented people. They like to be up and about, doing things. They are not people to sit behind a desk all day and do long-range planning. Adaptable and spontaneous, they respond to what is immediately before them. They usually have strong technical skills, and can be effective technical leaders. They focus on details and practical things. They have an excellent sense of expediency and grasp of the details which enables them to make quick, effective decisions. ISTPs avoid making judgments based on personal values - they feel that judgments and decisions should be made impartially, based on the fact. They are not naturally tuned in to how they are affecting others. They do not pay attention to their own feelings, and even distrust them and try to ignore them, because they have difficulty distinguishing between emotional reactions and value judgments. This may be a problem area for many ISTPs. An ISTP who is over-stressed may exhibit rash emotional outbursts of anger, or on the other extreme may be overwhelmed by emotions and feelings which they feel compelled to share with people (often inappropriately). An ISTP who is down on themself will foray into the world of value judgments - a place which is not natural for the ISTP - and judge themself by their inability to perform some task. They will then approach the task in a grim emotional state, expecting the worst. ISTPs are excellent in a crisis situations. They're usually good athletes, and have very good hand-eye coordination. They are good at following through with a project, and tying up loose ends. They usually don't have much trouble with school, because they are introverts who can think logically. They are usually patient individuals, although they may be prone to occasional emotional outbursts due to their inattention to their own feelings. ISTPs have a lot of natural ability which makes them good at many different kinds of things. However, they are happiest when they are centered in action-oriented tasks which require detailed logical analysis and technical skill. They take pride in their ability to take the next correct step. ISTPs are optimistic, full of good cheer, loyal to their equals, uncomplicated in their desires, generous, trusting and receptive people who want no part in confining commitments. Jungian functional preference ordering: Dominant: Introverted Thinking Auxiliary: Extraverted Sensing Tertiary: Introverted Intuition Inferior: Extraverted Feeling Introverted Sensing Thinking Perceiving by Marina Margaret Heiss Profile: ISTP Revision: 3.0 Date of Revision: 26 Feb 2005 Like their fellow SPs, ISTPs are fundamentally Performers (note the capital 'P' :-)), but as Ts their areas of interest tend to be mechanical rather than artistic like those of ISFPs, and unlike most ESPs they do not present an impression of constant activity. On the contrary, they lie dormant, saving their energy until a project or an adventure worthy of their time comes along--and then they launch themselves at it. The apparently frenzied state that inevitably ensues is actually much more controlled than it appears--ISTPs always seem to know what they're doing when it comes to physical or mechanical obstacles--but the whole chain of events presents a confusing and paradoxical picture to an outsider. ISTPs are equally difficult to understand in their need for personal space, which in turn has an impact on their relationships with others. They need to be able to "spread out"--both physically and psychologically--which generally implies encroaching to some degree on others, especially if they decide that something of someone else's is going to become their next project. (They are generally quite comfortable, however, with being treated the same way they treat others--at least in this respect.) But because they need such a lot of flexibility to be as spontaneous as they feel they must be, they tend to become as inflexible as the most rigid J when someone seems to be threatening their lifestyle (although they usually respond with a classic SP rage which is yet another vivid contrast to their "dormant," impassive, detached mode). These territorial considerations are usually critical in relationships with ISTPs; communication also tends to be a key issue, since they generally express themselves non-verbally. When they do actually verbalize, ISTPs are masters of the one-liner, often showing flashes of humor in the most tense situations; this can result in their being seen as thick-skinned or tasteless. Like most SPs, ISTPs may have trouble with rote and abstract classroom learning, which tend not to be good measures of their actual intelligence. They tend, sometimes with good reason, to be highly skeptical of its practical value, and often gravitate towards classes in industrial arts; part-time vocational/ technical programs can be useful to even the college-bound ISTP. In terms of careers, mechanics and any of the skilled trades are traditional choices, and those ISTPs with strong numerical as well mechanical gifts tend to do extremely well in most areas of engineering. Working as paramedics or firefighters can fulfill the ISTP need to live on the edge; they are at their best in a crisis, where their natural disregard for rules and authority structures allows them to focus on and tackle the emergency at hand in the most effective way. ISTPs with more sedate careers usually take on high-risk avocations like racing, skydiving, and motorcycling. While aware of the dangers involved, they are so in touch with the physical world that they know they can get away with much smaller safety margins than other types. That's the end of the web site stuff Ok, loves to live on the edge; lets see here... oh yes. Unicycling, small aircraft piloting, cliff climbing, building climbing, surfing, urban surfing, skiing (all kinds), bull riding, white water rafting, mountain climbing, sword fighting, and many other “lesser” things that I have done. Feels the need to have solitary time; Without a doubt that is true. It is a great stressor for me to not be able to just decompress alone for a while. Loves to see how things work; Hellllo! McFly! I love so much to see how things work that I am writing this journal trying to see how I work. Oh and my whole life I loved to take things apart just to see what made them go. It just goes on and on. Everything seems to be spot on. I’m not sure how I feel having been “mapped” out with a label placed upon my forehead. While I am sitting here stubbornly thinking about how I am my own person, and no little test is going pigeon hole me into a type group, I realize that my reaction is actually predictable according to the above description. “But because they need such a lot of flexibility to be as spontaneous as they feel they must be, they tend to become as inflexible as the most rigid J when someone seems to be threatening their lifestyle”. Drat! Foiled again! It seems that the only logical way to prove the test is inaccurate, for me, is to agree with it. Of course one could point out that by agreeing with the test in order to disprove it, proves that on a personal level I believe in the test results. Well this only leaves me back where I started in the first place. How much of my personality was already mapped out before the rape, and how much of it was altered because of the rape? And once again… here I am, working on detachment, trying to “talk” more by writing more on DS, what have I accomplished? Sure I have learned how to write my thoughts and feelings out, but I am still internalizing them. I have made some very good friends (please don’t get offended by this), but I have done nothing to become better friends with the people that I know personally. The worst part about this whole thing is my relationship with my wife. She is a very outgoing, wants to go out, catch a parade, go to a party, loves large groups, kind of girl. I on the other hand am a want to ride a bike, take a hike, fix something, stay at home, hates large crowds, kind of guy. How does that work? It’s been VERY difficult. At some point in the day I just really need my space. She takes it as I don’t want to be with her. She is always trying to help me with suggestions on how to do things, I usually take it as she is trying to control me. When will the madness end? I love her so much more that I fear she will ever understand, yet she feels unloved. We just seem to be pulling in different directions harder and harder every day. There is no hate or contempt. I know she loves me. I just seem to make her very unhappy. This is obviously the “why” the motivation behind my wanting to change who I am. I want to be more outgoing, and talkative. I just physically can’t seem to do it for very long. Two Three days at a time tops. I am not sure what to make of the personality test. ISTP? Does it mean that I am fated to be a loner? Sad part is, is that the thought of being alone does not make me sad. Sometime I feel like I am devoid of feelings, or that I must be very callous. I do care, I do feel, I just can’t bring myself to show it.
Replies
wow. that was one FREAKY test. i don\'t know you ALL that well, but...... OMG, can you say, \"creepy\"? it was totally you. TOTALLY YOU. i\'m going to take the test today; get back to you on the results.
it\'s hard to say if you are the same person(ality) now, as you were before the rape. i think two things about this:
1) a SA survivor\'s BASIC characteristic traits are the same before and after. it\'s only the secondary traits that maybe change, and with that, not all of these do. some secondary traits may change completely, but many are just \'tweaked\' to accommodate the trauma.
2) in the grand scheme of things does it REALLY matter what you were like before the rape? unless you\'re planning to continually live in your past, you really have no use for what you WERE like. time is a river that although finite, flows in one direction. who you were before the rape is differnt from who you were immediately after... which is different from who you were 10 years after... which is different from who you are today... which will be different from who you are in 4 years. so why, continually derail your current life, by insisting that you must live in a frozen moment of your life? that\'s just my take on that, which you may or may not agree with...
regarding your relationship with your wife, i wanted to ask you one question...
what was it that attracted you to her, in the first place, and KEPT your attraction until you decided to marry her?
~ me
I\'m a big believer in both the Myers-Briggs and related Kiernsey tests (and for the record, I\'m either an INTF or INTJ depending on my mood at the moment).
Myers-Briggs and Kiernsey are one of the few personality testing tools that IMHO aren\'t complete BS. Even HR departments of some major employers consider it to be credible.
More on point, I think it\'s a great tool for matching up survivors with the right counseling technique. Some people work better with a \"just the facts\" approach (that would be me); but for others that\'s too cold and a touchy-feely approach focusing on emotion is better (that\'s NOT me).
Iamjoey makes a GREAT point: What was it that attracted you to your wife, in the first place, and KEPT your attraction until you decided to marry her? Keep this in mind, and it will get you through the tough times.
Joey,
My desire to understand more about the way personality is created has more to do with... how much is it based on chemistry / heredity, what factors while growing up influince it, and as adults, how much control do we have over it? I am not necissaraly trying to live in a moment in time, but understanding this may give me a better understanding of me. This will, i suppose, lead me to wrestle with the idea of, if this is who i am, and i cannot change, then i need to figure out how to align my life to me. (not in a selfish way, just in a way that doesnot make me miserable). Or, perhapse, the parts of me that i dont like, were created as a self defence mechinism, and these aspects of me i could change. The last is if i could actually change who i am at the core, I could force myself to be more open. I guess i tend to try to \"figure\" everthing out. I like to organize the veriables that i can see, and build in + or - tolorances for those that i cannot see. Some people can just accept the plan laid out before them. I need to understand it. Not that i ever will, but at least the process of trying will make me feel better.
Portlander,
I never knew that this test was such a big deal. Though if it as accurate with me as it is with every one then i can see how it could easily be used as an HR tool, and a tool for a counselor. I think that you had mensioned before that you were a counselor. If that\'s true, then is the Myers-Briggs test something that is taught in school? My counselor has never brought it up. Not that i\'m suprised, i dont see any real reason to bring it up, but i was thinking about sharing with her my results. I\'m just wondering if this test is a standard item that is studied and that all couselours should have a fairly decent knowladge of it.
Joey and Portlander,
Ok, about my wife and I.
She is beautiful, smart, caring, funny, witty, and she has the ability to render me a stuttering idiot with the bat of on eyelash.
So what\'s wrong?
I forget lots of stuff, she forgets almost nothing. If things dont go as planned i tend to just say, \"oh well, we will get it right next time\". Where she will get very angry at the apparent lack of planning and the obvious (to her) lack of caring.
Now to be fair, she does try to remind me of stuff all of the time, and she tries to come up with ways to better organize me. Over the years these behaviours have become to feel more like a forceful controlling had rather than good hearted help. To her, my lack of concentraition and forgefulness has become to seem more like lack of caring and a desire to be rid of her. Our actions and reactions have just been pulling harder and harder, and now there is very few times of contentment. Even then it is only a veil to cover the unhappieness that surrounds us both. She is such a good person, and deserving of so much more than i seem to be able to give. It absolutly breaks my heart to see her unhappy, and to know that if i only could remember all of the things that i should, and open my mouth and communicate with her. Talk to her more often. She would be so much more happier. You see, i took that test, and it did not tell me who i was, but rather put into words that brought it into focus.
Can i change? Can i become the type of man that will make her happy? Yes Yes i know that it is an effort of two. That just one of us alone cannot save the marrage. You must understand that she is and has been trying too. But do we have to make this relationship like the politicians have made our public shcools. Cater to the lowest common denominator? Does she really have to pretend that she forgot all about the same stuff that i forgot about? Does she have to pretend that its ok not to talk right now, when she is screaming on the inside? I do not want to make her have to sacrafice her soul to be with me. I need to figure out how to be more open, and less forgetful. Rise up to her level. That would be the right thing to do.
Can you change ? It depends on what you mean by change. I don\'t believe a person\'s core personality changes much. It would be more accurate to say that personalities \"evolve\' as we learn and grow, even as adults, and especially as we focus on developing good habits and minimizing bad habits. But can a person deliberately make a wholesale change in their personality, as in a complete \'makeover\' ? No, I don\'t think so, at least not and be happy about it.
But the things you describe above - forgetfulness, disorganization, etc - that\'s not \"you\". Those things are habits and skills and talents that can sharpened and improved up to a point, but it\'s not the core you. Now if you were to tell me about your likes, dislikes, desires, political and religous worldviews, THAT would be you. But you probably don\'t want to, and probably won\'t, change those things about you although as I say they may evolve over time. I also strongly suspect that it\'s not this part of you that your wife wants to change.
So if the question is, not can you change \'you\', but can you change some of the individual habits and skills that will improve things with your wife? Then the answer is YES, definitely. And there\'s a wealth of resources out there to help with this.
i TOTALLY agree with Portlander\'s answer, Keith.
in addition, i\'m thinking... \"what about your wife? aren\'t there things about HERSELF, that SHE could change (read: change as in what Portlander just described) that would make YOU happy? for some reason, i seem to be getting only her side of the story (from your point of view). i know she\'s NOT a bad person, but i think a marriage has to change and evolve for BOTH partners.
the other thing i\'m thinking, and this is NOT a slight to D, but that SHE should also be seeing a therapist. i would suggest that she see one INDIVIDUALLY, for at least a few months, and THEN the two of you could see a couples\' therapist together. i think it would benefit her to have a confidential outlet for her needs and issues (personal and/or marital), just as you have one in your therapists.
there is no blame her - on D OR you. that\'s counterproductive. just a suggestion, that you both work - individually on your issues, to better help yourselves and your partner. i hope this makes sense??
((hugs))
Jo