Women who Love too Much Community Group
WHEN BEING IN LOVE, MEANS BEING IN PAIN... This group is to help women through the journey of realizing they can love themselves. To help realize that they are capable of having a happy, healthy, whole relationship and break the cycle of abuse and heartache from loving emotionally unavailable men.
Hi everyone,
My name is Kate and I just joined this board because I'm looking for some advice about (le sigh) daddy issues.
Like so many women, I grew up with a dad who viewed his parental role solely as Mr. Money Bags, meaning that he was 100% unavailable in any way besides giving me $20 here and there. I recently found out from my mother that when my siblings and I were little, she had to do everything while my dad sat out, and this way, if anything was "wrong" about any of us kids, it would be all her fault.
When we would visit relatives, he would take his own car so that he could be alone instead of being in a car with his own wife and kids. When I was a happy little kid and I excitedly wanted to tell my dad something fun and great, my excitement was always met with, "Leave me alone! Can you see I'm watching television?" I learned very quickly that I was less of a person and more of a nuisance.
As a teenager, dance was my #1 passion. My performing arts school's recitals were always on Father's Day. Instead of viewing this as a great way to BE A FATHER, my father complained for weeks leading up to it about how it was gonna suck so much that he was going to have to spend "his day" watching my crappy recital.
When I was 15 years old, I decided to be the adult and very calmly approach him and say, "When you do/say _this_, it makes me feel bad in _this way_." Instead of being a human being about it, my father screamed in my face, "WELL, YOUR FEELINGS ARE STUPID!!!!" I see now that he did this because he is so defensive and afraid to deal with his own emotions. This was the quickest way to get me to go away so that he wouldn't have to think or talk about it (it worked--I literally ran out of the room and down the stairs). The man obviously has a world of emotional problems that he has no interest in actually dealing with.
And clearly, I am still affected and bothered by 30 years of this kind of treatment. But my question is, since I know all of this stuff about what a craphead my dad has been to me and how it's affected my self-esteem and my expectations for how I should be treated by others, *now what*?
Do I try to confront him again? I have this idea that if I can figure out what made him turn into this mess of a person, maybe that understanding and sympathy will help soften all of the anger I feel toward him. I feel like I can try but I won't get very far before his defensive instincts kick in. I wish I could ask my grandmother, but she has passed away (and my dad's dad died before I was born). Should I talk to my aunt (his only sibling) about their upbringing and ask her how she thinks he became this person? Even my mother, who is still married to him, says that he is no longer the man she married, and she doesn't know what in the world happened.
I want to find a way to stop viewing my father as this fucking jerk who thought it was fine to treat me like garbage as long as he occasionally put a couple $20 bills in my hand. As a 30-year-old adult, I have a hard time being kind to him now, even when he is being decently kind enough to me. He did tell me once when I was 22 (another time I tried to have a heart-to-heart with him) that he doesn't like children but now he would like to get to know me as an adult. (Dafuq??) As you can guess, there is a lot of anger and hostility in my heart when it comes to him.
I'm sure that the best answer is "lots of psychotherapy," but do you think it's worth talking to my aunt about their upbringing? I like her a lot and I have a very good relationship with her. I'm very interested to hear any other advice and ideas you may have as well.
Thank you so much for taking the time to read this. Any constructive feedback is greatly appreciated.
My name is Kate and I just joined this board because I'm looking for some advice about (le sigh) daddy issues.
Like so many women, I grew up with a dad who viewed his parental role solely as Mr. Money Bags, meaning that he was 100% unavailable in any way besides giving me $20 here and there. I recently found out from my mother that when my siblings and I were little, she had to do everything while my dad sat out, and this way, if anything was "wrong" about any of us kids, it would be all her fault.
When we would visit relatives, he would take his own car so that he could be alone instead of being in a car with his own wife and kids. When I was a happy little kid and I excitedly wanted to tell my dad something fun and great, my excitement was always met with, "Leave me alone! Can you see I'm watching television?" I learned very quickly that I was less of a person and more of a nuisance.
As a teenager, dance was my #1 passion. My performing arts school's recitals were always on Father's Day. Instead of viewing this as a great way to BE A FATHER, my father complained for weeks leading up to it about how it was gonna suck so much that he was going to have to spend "his day" watching my crappy recital.
When I was 15 years old, I decided to be the adult and very calmly approach him and say, "When you do/say _this_, it makes me feel bad in _this way_." Instead of being a human being about it, my father screamed in my face, "WELL, YOUR FEELINGS ARE STUPID!!!!" I see now that he did this because he is so defensive and afraid to deal with his own emotions. This was the quickest way to get me to go away so that he wouldn't have to think or talk about it (it worked--I literally ran out of the room and down the stairs). The man obviously has a world of emotional problems that he has no interest in actually dealing with.
And clearly, I am still affected and bothered by 30 years of this kind of treatment. But my question is, since I know all of this stuff about what a craphead my dad has been to me and how it's affected my self-esteem and my expectations for how I should be treated by others, *now what*?
Do I try to confront him again? I have this idea that if I can figure out what made him turn into this mess of a person, maybe that understanding and sympathy will help soften all of the anger I feel toward him. I feel like I can try but I won't get very far before his defensive instincts kick in. I wish I could ask my grandmother, but she has passed away (and my dad's dad died before I was born). Should I talk to my aunt (his only sibling) about their upbringing and ask her how she thinks he became this person? Even my mother, who is still married to him, says that he is no longer the man she married, and she doesn't know what in the world happened.
I want to find a way to stop viewing my father as this fucking jerk who thought it was fine to treat me like garbage as long as he occasionally put a couple $20 bills in my hand. As a 30-year-old adult, I have a hard time being kind to him now, even when he is being decently kind enough to me. He did tell me once when I was 22 (another time I tried to have a heart-to-heart with him) that he doesn't like children but now he would like to get to know me as an adult. (Dafuq??) As you can guess, there is a lot of anger and hostility in my heart when it comes to him.
I'm sure that the best answer is "lots of psychotherapy," but do you think it's worth talking to my aunt about their upbringing? I like her a lot and I have a very good relationship with her. I'm very interested to hear any other advice and ideas you may have as well.
Thank you so much for taking the time to read this. Any constructive feedback is greatly appreciated.
It's definitely very sad that your dad was so unloving and cold. My dad is almost exactly like this, where he treats me like crap but somehow the money is supposed to make up for it. To be honest, I would not suggest confronting him again. He will probably have the same reaction. He is what he is. To me, 'why he is the way he is' is not important and not an excuse for how he behaved. This is the same attitude I have towards my ex.
A long time ago I tried to understand why my abusive mother did what she did. In the end, I realized I was trying to simply make excuses for her and her behavior. In the end, abuse of any kind is never acceptable. If anything having a bad childhood should make them want to be a good parent. I see my sister fruitlessly trying over and over to explain to my dad 'how he has hurt her' with letters and long talks and I believe he does not understand, nor does he care. This has been going on for years.
In the end though, you need to do what you think is right. It seems what you want is peace with your dad and maybe understanding his upbringing will help with that.
I hope this is not too negative, this is just coming from my own experience with a dad that sounds very similar. I'm sure the other ladies will have many other suggestions. Best of luck x
this is only my experience, glean what you will or discard it if unhelpful. in the end ultimately what brought me and my dad together was when i was suicidal in the hospital. it was then that he realized i wasn't okay. i never blamed him. i had forgiven him long before but somehow things changed for him at this point. i guess it was thinking about not having me around. i had to in the calmest way possible really put it all out there, no holds barred. he used to be extremely critical and invalidating. we fought every single night.
my story is too long but in the end it was him that had to (or not) be there for ME, he is my biggest supporter now alongside my mom. and now he has cancer and is going through chemo and we're slowly approaching each other. i'm scared and cautious bc i know there is potential for e to get hurt but i'm willing to take that risk b/c i love him so much. (he may be the reason i choose the men i do, i accept responsibility for that now)
i guess i say all of this b/c there can be healing that comes from having a heart to heart when the timing is right.. but you have to not batter him or shame him or blame him. your dad did the very best he could with the tools that he had at that time in your lives.
and confrontation can be as simple as a heartfelt letter which i would recommend for you. he can read it on his own time in private and have time to sort it all out in his head. calmly, gently tell him what's hurt in you without blaming him if you can. ask him about his childhood. tell him you're curious about him pushing you away. and in the end invite him to approach you.
you know if he does that would be great. i don't think it has to be a "Confrontation" or a gun fight if you approach it with a spirit of forgiveness, curiousity and acceptance that he is the way he is AND he's doing the best he can. if he could do better he would be doing better. he likely doesn't have the tools.
and i think it's fine to talk to your aunt but why not find a way to get the info you want from the horses mouth. you can also ask her and explore it with her and ask him too. he's pushed you away from him so he doesn't have to talk about emotions b/c it probably terrifies him but as our parents get older they do change. they begin to look back on their lives and wonder what they have to show for it.
is there a way you can be positive about it?? or are you too angry and hurt?? i believe you will know when the time is right b/c you will be inspired to have the hard converstaions wtih him. but don't push the river b/c you could make the situation worse for yourself.
before i had that discussion with my dad i had already forgiven him and it was evident in my tone and my approach. maybe now is the time to work on forgiveness. keep the focus on yourself and forgive for yourself not for him. not because what he did was okay but b/c you deserve peace of mind.
kids FIND a way to make everything that doesn't go right in their families their fault. it was not your fault. you have to know that. do you???? if you don't know that repeat to yourself 1000 times a day.i am loveable and capable and my family dynamics have never been my fault.
have you already forgiven him?? are you able to tell him you forgive him???? that is where my freedom was. now i love my daddy so much that it kills me that he is 73 years old and has (non terminal) cancer. i don't have much time left. b/c of his age not his cancer.
you're asking and turing this over in your mind so i know how incredibly brave you are......welcome to the group!
take your time. take it easy. you will be inspired to move when the time is right.
I read somewhere: "When a parent dies, we might grieve more for what we never got--than for what we've actually lost. "
We will always miss what we did not/ could not get.
I think "the reason why" your father is the way he is is HIS problem.
The energy you would spend on understanding for him the reason he is what he does not want to see or talk about can only bring more frustration and lack of understanding.
He did what he did. FACT.
He can only change if he decides to and he does not seem to be open to that.
so he will Not change. FACT
He is your father. FACT.
But WHO are you? A kid that is trying again, hoping again not to be emotionnally punched in the face?
You were impacted by years of emotionnal bad response and unloving relationship.
Now what do you need for yourself? What do you need to heal? What present can you find to give to yourself?
Something that might make you even more insecure and battered or a new angle which may not involve anyone from your family...
Do you paint? draw? take pictures?
do you write? do you still dance?
can you write a choregraphy about what you experienced?
put what you are, your craetivity in the process.
Your father belongs to the past.
You are in the NOW; We are all in the now of our lives.
What do YOU really need NOW Kate?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5ARB6yhBg8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S14kvB-HMc0
Take care XXX Petit Pois
What I read - bottom line - in your letter is that you think that if you can understand "why" your father treated you this way - that it would somehow magically show that he "DID" love you in the only way he was capable. Just like we will do with our emotionally unavailable men. Perhaps his mother abused him, he has trust issues with women - whatever it takes for us to rationalize and excuse his behavior. Trying to turn his inability to love into a situation that can be fixed...
We can NEVER fix them. The only person that we CAN fix, is ourselves. Your fathers childhood treatment of you has detrimentally affected your self esteem and your expectations of how others treat you. YOU can fix that. You can learn to love you...and that will positively affect, perhaps not your relationship with your father, but your feelings about your relationship or lack of...and all other relationships in your life. You have come to the right place to get started. The first step towards loving you is going for help. It's time to make yourself and building you up the top priority in your life. Find a support group of peers on a similar journey (us!) - and build up your support network of friends and family, those that add positive things to your life, not drama. Perhaps get a therapist. Do things that make you happy and feel good. Go to a concert, dress up a little more than you need to. Write down all the things you like about yourself. A list of your accomplishments. Then combine those lists to an I AM list (i.e. I AM strong, I AM smart, I AM a great dancer, I AM lovable). Put that list where you have to see it every day. Set small goals and reward yourself when you accomplish them - it doesn't have to be big things, a CD or a sparkly nail polish. Perhaps as part of your healing, you can, as Finn suggested, write a letter to your father about your feelings. Maybe you can do that today...hold on it for a couple of months, while you work on you and review it in 3 months or so and see if you feel the same way, before you send it.
When you love yourself, when you BELIEVE that you are worthy of the best that life has to offer, that is exactly what you will get. Your fathers inability to be close will be just that - HIS inability, and not a reflection on you. While you may pity that he will never have a full and fulfilling life due to that inability, you won't feel a need to understand why he is that way to feel good about you. Hugs to you on your journey!
These ladies have said it all. I too grew up in a household much like yours - emotionally distant father, weak mother who allowed it to happen. I am sorry for your pain, though you have to know that others have been through it, have acknowledged it, and find themselves free from it. I know you will get there too - because you are SEEKING it.
I tend to do a lot of reading to process my feelings, and your letter reminded me of the book "Tiny Beautiful Things," by Cheryl Strayed. She was the old advice columnist from The Rumpus. ANYhoo, there is a letter within about Forgiving Your Father. Check it out. Her advice is no-BS, and very true to women like us... because she was one.