Women who Love too Much Community Group
WHEN BEING IN LOVE, MEANS BEING IN PAIN... This group is to help women through the journey of realizing they can love themselves. To help realize that they are capable of having a happy, healthy, whole relationship and break the cycle of abuse and heartache from loving emotionally unavailable men.
I have been on the breakup and divorce group for a while by came across this group recently and reading some of the posts it sounds just like me.
I was with my husband 21 years then just over 2 years ago we seperated(He left for the 9th time).As always i was deverstated cause even though it was so obvious we wernt meant to be i found it so hard to let go.
After 2 years of deverstation i was just getting there when i met a guy on an online dating site,we just clicked straigh away and were constantly texting and calling each other.We met up and fell in love,he told me i was his soulmate,he couldnt live without me etc etc.
For nearly 4 months things were great,he was going to move in and we talked about having a baby together(these came from him).We just seemed to have met each other just when we needed it,he told me he had been seperated a year and we both had been through the heartbreak of our spouses telling us they didnt love us anymore.
Then about a month ago out of the bluehe tells me he thinks he still has feelings for his wife and its not fair on me to keep seing me.Yet again i was heartbroken,heasked if we could keep intouch as he wanted t be friens and against my better judgment i agreed and for the first couple of weeks he still text or called me daily telling me he missed me and how bad he felt for hurting me.
But the last couple of weeks he hasnt contacted me at all apart from last week he text and asked me to call him,i find out when we are talking the last time he live with his wife was october of last year.That makes so much sense now but i just ignored the warning signs at first.
Anyway i have now come to terms with the fact that i really am better off without all his drama etc but i still miss him so bad sometimes.
We spoke briefly yesterday and he told me his wife is desperate to have him back but there divorce goes up infont of a judge today and he wants it to go ahead .I think he feels that when hes finally divorced from her he can move on.(what an idiot)
So what i want to know is why do i find it so hard to let go of these men that are no good for me and continue to pine for them when its obvious they dont want me?
I was with my husband 21 years then just over 2 years ago we seperated(He left for the 9th time).As always i was deverstated cause even though it was so obvious we wernt meant to be i found it so hard to let go.
After 2 years of deverstation i was just getting there when i met a guy on an online dating site,we just clicked straigh away and were constantly texting and calling each other.We met up and fell in love,he told me i was his soulmate,he couldnt live without me etc etc.
For nearly 4 months things were great,he was going to move in and we talked about having a baby together(these came from him).We just seemed to have met each other just when we needed it,he told me he had been seperated a year and we both had been through the heartbreak of our spouses telling us they didnt love us anymore.
Then about a month ago out of the bluehe tells me he thinks he still has feelings for his wife and its not fair on me to keep seing me.Yet again i was heartbroken,heasked if we could keep intouch as he wanted t be friens and against my better judgment i agreed and for the first couple of weeks he still text or called me daily telling me he missed me and how bad he felt for hurting me.
But the last couple of weeks he hasnt contacted me at all apart from last week he text and asked me to call him,i find out when we are talking the last time he live with his wife was october of last year.That makes so much sense now but i just ignored the warning signs at first.
Anyway i have now come to terms with the fact that i really am better off without all his drama etc but i still miss him so bad sometimes.
We spoke briefly yesterday and he told me his wife is desperate to have him back but there divorce goes up infont of a judge today and he wants it to go ahead .I think he feels that when hes finally divorced from her he can move on.(what an idiot)
So what i want to know is why do i find it so hard to let go of these men that are no good for me and continue to pine for them when its obvious they dont want me?
Very often when we move from one relationship to another relationship without having done the necessary grieving and changing, we end up in an even worst situation, with our already beaten up hearts then left shattered.
The man you describe is a typically emotionally unavailale man and thus dangerous. So many of these EU men do the push pull (come close, then back away) and the idolizing (you are perfect, we are soulmates) right before the devalue and the discard. Most of these dangerous men could simply be avoided by not falling into the 'you are perfect for me trap'. They excell at coming on strong, taking your guard down and the leaving in a flash.
Most women ignore red flags because we are so busy getting our egos storked by their intense flattery and how they want to connect so rapidly. Nothing real needs to be rushed into. Establishing who this person is before getting emotionally and sexually involved is a great help in avoiding future heart break.
It would probalby be great for your heart if you could take at least a 1 year relationship break, get your own divorce finalized, and go No Conatct with Mr. 'I am going back to my wife". The minute he thinks you are done with him, he will be ready for round 2 of let me put your heart thru the meat grinder AGAIN. The 2nd time the cycles are normally shorter and even MORE painful.
From Sandra Brown (author How to spot a dangerous man):
THE EMOTIONALLY UNAVAILABE MAN
He is married, separated, engaged, dating someone else or just breaking up with someone. He usually presents himself as currently unhappy with or not quite out of a relationship, but he is willing to have you on the side. Another type of emotionally unavailable man is the man who is preoccupied with his career, educational goals, or hobbies to the exclusion of ever having a true interest in a long term relationship.
With the emotionally unavailable man, there is always a reason why he canât fully commit to you, but he is usually happy to keep stringing you along. After all the situation is still convenient for him as long as you are willing to keep seeing him or sleeping with him on a casual basis despite the fact that he can not or will not get involved in a serious relationship with you.
Common behaviors of unavailable men
From the website: Mr. Unavailable and the fallback girl:
http://www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/mrunavailableandthefallbackgirlbookone/
He is very reliant on text messages, instant messaging and email for the majority of his contact
He is ambiguous about the status of the relationship
You are not sure when you will hear from him next, even though you have been dating them for a while
You think you are in a relationship, but it is closer to a booty call
He says stuff like If only the timing was different, you would be the perfect girlfriend and If only things were different Id definitely marry you
When you try to tackle the status of your relationship or any issues, he either tells you what you want to hear or then returns to his normal behavior, or he just skirts the issue. One way or the other, you wind up back at square one.
He lives with his ex
He shares a bed with a woman that he claims is his friend
He admits is that he is dating multiple women continuously
He is not over his ex openly or he says He is over his ex but He is quietly still trying to cope with the end of the relationship
He mentions his ex or things that happened between the two of them frequently
He is an overt mother lover mummys boy, or He is a mother hater has an overtly negative
relationship with his mother
He has a girlfriend
He is married
He is recently separated or has been separated for a long time.
He has a long distance relationship
He does not call when He is supposed to. Ever.
He is one big walking excuse.
You feel empty after you sleep with him.
He creeps out after sleeping with you even though you have been together for a while
He has a stringent routine that he just will not deviate from, sometimes a sign that he has someone else
He will not take calls either before or after a certain time; often a sign that he is cheating, or that
He is afraid to admit that he is with you or any woman.
He does not come around to your place until late
He is resistant to involving himself in your life
He talks about his problems, his successes, his life it is me, me, me all the way
He determines the momentum of the relationship you meet up when he wants to meet up
He pushes is for an open relationship
He never refers to you as a girlfriend, partner, or any form of significant not other
He uses sex as his way of demonstrating his socalled emotions
There are pockets of time when he seems to just disappear, and then he resurfaces with little or no explanation
It feels like he blows hot and cold
He is quick out the gate in pursuing you, gets your attention, and then goes into a slow cantor
He tells you that he has a lot of issues that he needs to deal with
He actually says not ready for a relationship but is still with you
He says he wants to get married, but there is no sign of a ring, no sign of a date, and years are going by
He can not commit to anything, no matter how miniscule everything that He is asked, such as whether he can do something with you is a big drama to get him to say yay or nay
He may try and sleep with you on the first night
You often feel like an armchair psychologist
He is so inconsistent, that He is become consistent at it and you now think it is normal
He does not feel any responsibility towards following through on plans he has made with you.
He will often have no respect for your time commitments and he will expect you to jump to his beat
He summons you and you run
It feels like a long distance relationship but you live in the same area/town/city
He has lots of female friends that are pursuing him. They are all catering to his needs. He gets to be jackofalltrades and master of no one. This is what one of my readers refers to as his Narcissistic Harem or Narcissistic Supply.
They tend to be quite tight fisted. They can spend a lot on themselves but will pennypinch with you.
When you ask about the status of the relationship or his behavior, he accuses you of being
needy.
Disproportionate interest and declaration of feelings at the outset of the relationship (lets move in, have a baby) and then he withdraws
You have been together for years but he is stalling on moving in or just plain moving the relationship forward.
You could be with him for a lifetime but you would struggle to see any progression in your relationship with him.
He is like a bad penny that keeps turning up. You end it with him but he finds a way to keep in contact with you periodically, or even sleep with you occasionally. This can go on for years.
Then when his battery died (thank god)i had a good think and realised yet again hes using me, all this emotion is going round in his head and he has no one to talk to so why not use me. especially as he knows i went through very simular with my husband the coming and going etc.
Im just so tired of it all now ive excepted he dosent want me but WHY cant i let go,every day i tell myself no more contact move on but i just find it so hard and still every morning hes the first thing i think of and the last thing i think of before sleep.
You can't stop thinking about him because that is what a pathological does. He mess with your brain.
Per Sandra Brown (my personal hero):
The main problem women have after leaving pathological men is obtrusive constant thoughts of the relationship and cognitive dissonance. Cognitive dissonance is an uncomfortable feeling caused by holding two contradictory ideas simultaneously.
The main part of these pathological men is that show up as one thing, but they are something entirely different. This is a disorder of social hiding. This is an individual that is PROFOUNDLY disturbed but looks normal. In a normal relationship you don't have 2 different people to deal with. Here you are breaking up with dark side and the charmer.
What you miss is the charmer. What you broke up with is the dark side (and only true side).
Their disorder is this called the mask of sanity for a reason. They appear normal (better then normal - sweet, charming, handsome) but they are something else all together. These men have known they were different since they were children they are experts at hiding their dark side. If they showed you who they were, you would have gone running into the night screaming.
Here are some examples of what happens in these types of relationships:
You receive both:
bonding and abandonment
loving and loathing
child like vulnerability couple with adult mystique
support and sabotage
fun and then rage
the most wonderful soul mate you could have imagined as well as the sickest relationship you could experience all in one package
calculated and impulsive
idolized and devalued
aloof and super connected
kind and sadistic
capable and helpless
We are ping ponging all over the place
http://www.webofnarcissism.com/forums/index.php/topic,6641.0.html
If you want the madness to stop, go NO CONTACT immediately. You make the decision for YOU that you are no longer on option in his life. Period. Paragraph ending.
You do not have to tolerate his selfish ramblings. What an ego stroke for him that he has both of you (and who knows who else) hanging on the line: going: pick me, pick me.
Take your dignity and walk away now. I know it seems impossible, but the only other option is constant pain. No contact is a gift you give yourself to put distance between you and them which allows you to heal.
http://www.thenarcissistandpsychopath.yolasite.com/no-contact.php
You have my heartfelt sympathy because I am going through all the same things and its torture, minute by minute... but I started to feel better about ten minutes ago....
The reason?
Susy!
That article on No contact in the link above; in one article, after all the books I've read, all the self talk, the feeling like I'm just born crazy, that article laid it all out for me what i need to do. So simple.
Yes its been hard. When I found this website tonight, about half an hour ago, I had my phone in my hand and was reading his old texts, and wondering what I could say to him (again) which would have started the whole sorry mess all over *again" and put me back to square one yet AGAIN. I might add, for about the hundredth time in the nearly three years I've been with this person.
I know it makes SENSE to have no contact, but never could. I now have real HOPE that I can follow through, after reading this. This article went to my sense of dignity and pride like nothing else, and Susy, you are a legend for finding this and guiding the rest of us to it! Well done.... and thank you so so much.
I will be hanging around this website for a while yet I feel; its fascinating how so many women who seem so switched on, as indeed I think I am, get ourselves totally brainwashed by these men.
More power to us I say in having such a forum. Thank you for reading, and best of luck and hugs to all, and its NO CONTACT from here on in! Caz xox
I love your strength and determination, and I am certain that you can put this into place. But know that it is easy to fall. The minute they sense that you are not coming back for one more round of 'lets smash my heart with a hammer', the normally come sniffing around to see where you are and that is when the determination has to be set in stone. The first thing I would do is delete all those text and delete his number from your phone (yes I am sure you have it memorized, but having to dial them all out gives you more thinking time).
If you have a smart phone, I would block him from texts and phone calls and also block him from your email. It really helps with the temptation factor especially when your brain remembers the 5 times he was SO SWEET instead of the 50 times he was a pathological moron.
Another tip I tell people is to put all of your red flags and incidents that you let slide on a piece of paper - list style, not a summary. Something you can look down quickly at. If you are ever thinking of breaking contact look at this list and go: This is what I was missing? This?
Great ideas, all of them.
And I like the idea of the list of incidents; of course its not fair to cut down so many trees to make such a list, but I am going to do it!
And yes, the determination when he turns up at my door (and it's not an if, I know it's a when) will be the hardest of all, and I still dont' quite know how I'm going to deal with that one. I really fear failure there. What strategies do you have for that? When he turns up at the door, smiling, wanting to hold me, telling me how much he misses me, what do I DO???!!!!!!
Every day he ignores me at least buys me some time to put something in place, but for this one, any help would be so appreciated..... ladies, my guy lives around the corner from me only 100 metres away, and passes by my door all the time. And moving is not an option.
Thanks again for reading, and thank heaven for all of us.
Caz xo
Memorize this:
http://www.lisaescott.com/forum/2009/04/30/starve-vampire-when-you-dont-respond
Have you ever tried to get water out of a rock? That is what happens when you try to get validatation from one of these men.
Of course he wanted to talk to you yesterday. You had not talked to him in days and wanted to make sure you were still an available option for him. They want as many willing sources of supply available as possible.
Once he knew he had you, then he could go back to showing you he was in control.
Do not let him be in control. You be in control. I immediately blocked xn from IM so I woud not know if he was on line and be tempted to contact him. I removed him from my phone and I blocked him from my eamil so if the did email me, I would never know about it.
This is your life. You decided. You can either go on being somebodys back up plan for the rest of your life, or every time you start to miss him, you can pull out your red flag list and know that you are missing an illusion. The choice is yours.
In the end it is pretty simple, we either let the Universe know that we are willing to accept all sorts of ill treatment, or we stand up for oursleves and say ENOUGH.
Firstly big hugs to you. I'm only 6 days clear of my man-drug, after countless relapses, so I know EXACTLY how you feel.
I also know that wihtout this forum, I would have fallen again about three days ago.
We all know that everytime we have contact, no matter how brief and bittersweet that reunion is, it ends up the SAME, we will be ignored again, and we end up back at Go with our heart in pieces yet again.
Have you read the No Contact website:
http://www.thenarcissistandpsychopath.yolasite.com/no-contact.php
I found this the most USEFUL tool, and I have printed this out and its with me everywhere I go. I've had to read it at least ten times over the last few days, but it has stopped me in my tracks every time.
I expect mine will come around at some point (and deep down I'm of course shattered that he hasn't already, but this the usual discard treatment we get, because they CAN. They replace us like a roll of toilet paper, and with as much empathy. They DONT CARE about us. It is only us who care, and wonder if we're going mad to be caring so deeply and getting total disregard as our reward.
When mine does eventually come around (or if!) I am ADAMANT it will simply be from me: a surprised look, and followed by "Sorry, I"m just heading out, but nice to see you. Bye." if it KILLS me, that is what I've rehearsed, and I'm READY for him this time.
Nix, we all do this. You are not alone. Read everything you can on the topic to understand what he is. Because you are a normal person with empathy, you cant understand what you are dealing with because they are like aliens in that they dont feel sorrow, remorse or anything for their acts which hurt us so deeply. Don't expect to understand him, or why, or anything. Just accept that it is so, and that there are normal giving men out there who will treat us the same way we treat them. With respect.
Sorry to ramble, its all still a very raw topic with me as well.
I FEEL FOR YOU so much. Stay in touch here, I think it's the best shot we have.
Caz xox