I've asked myself this question so many times, although I wonder if you have to develop certain characteristics of an N to survive with one and after one? I'd gotten more angry with him than any other person in my life, to the point of rage, I started manipulating, lying and using him just as he'd done to me. It made me feel horrible but it got to be the only way I could survive and interact with him. I think the honest difference is that it made me feel bad. An N never would for such things, for anything. All I know is it made me do a lot of irrational things because I didnt think rationally. Hell, I didnt think at all about anything but his happiness. As long as he was happy I thought I was. I'm guessing he didnt develop an ulcer or have constant stomach pain being with me because inwardly he was so miserable but I did. There are many things I'd done in that relationship that I'm not proud of but at least I understand why.

ive done lots of things im not proud of either. but how do you go back? can you go back?
normal healthy people, could never imagine the things we have gone through, or the things we have done. so we always have this shadow behind us, we can move on into a future, but i think that maybe we will never just be plain normal and happy. we have to work for what we want, and everything we get.

and sometimes, i think an N does feel for what he does, but he cant stop. he wont stop. when we go to leave, they cry, they do anything, the actually apologize for what they have done, so they know what they do.
they just cant stop.

i remember, which i dont really admit ever, but i remember thinking, at one point when i thought i finally had him, thought that he finally loved me and couldnt be without me, that i could break him, that i had the power to, but it was all fake. the whole thing, he turned it on me in the blink of an eye.

my last exN i dont think was a full N. pathological liar, yes definately, a fake? definately. but i dont think he preyed on others so, i think even having a girlfriend is his way of saying look at me, im normal.
he lied so much he believed his own lies, lets say i got mad and pointed something at him, it would turn into i threw something at him and hit him in the head and he bled and went to the hospital, and i got mad at him because he had to work to make money for us and i wanted him to stay home cause i was jealous. always something ridiculous, but he is very believable when he tells his stories till you get to know him.

but then sometimes i wonder if it was me, if i did mess everything up, i was gambling alot, and i was mean to him to begin with. when i didnt need him he was there, when i did he left cause he said he couldnt handle my emergencies anymore, even though i was pregnant, that he didnt want to break up, but that i was on my own to provide for me and the baby. ???

i dunno. but now i think im possibly just as crazy as they are.

I dont agree that we're as crazy, sure when we're in it and after we're out we look back and it looks so abnormal. Clearly an outsider not understanding the pathology or the hook would possibly label us crazy but anyone who has felt and lived through the affects of a relationship with an N knows better. I think the cloud does lift and the shadow falls away. It begins by owning and forgiving ourselves, being understanding about the fact we were in a dark place with a dark person. Personally I feel like I did a lot of crazy things trying to make the relationship into something more normal. I had those dreams of what I wanted in a relationship, the real stuff, that I thought would make me happy. It didnt involve anything close to what I was really living with him.

I think, its healthy to have a dream, of a fairy tale partnership, where we work, go to school, have kids, have money, have wonderful vacations together, blah blah blah.... but what i seem to lack, is the adaptability when this falls through, or to be able to stick to what i want. i make excuses. and when things get bad, i hold on to the dream, instead of getting away to follow my dreams.

its very hard to forgive yourself. its very hard to let go of something you feel has changed you forever.
its very hard to feel again, to love again.

Sometimes, I also think that we can become N. I think that becoming one is not that bad. We go for whatever thing we want to and the only thing we have to remember is not to harm anybody. we were left to shattered and I would not want this suffering for anyone.

Loving again is the hardest part ever. I often talk to my aunt who is a very mature woman. She told me that she was capable to love only one time. Yes, we feel that we are in love with ramdon people but is not real, is an illusion. The rest is just geography!

I hardly think that I will be capable to love somebody else.
Dracona, we all make mistake and thats just normal. If relationships are meant to be, then it will be. I strongly belive in this saying!

im with ya on that if it was meant to be, its just a turning in my head, he did so much to me.
i think i gave all my love to someone else, someone unworthy, or too many someone's. and well, now its hard to ever feel the same. after you say i love you enough times, it seems to lose its potency, its worth, or any meaning at all, its just another set of words.

yes, it is true. That's the reason why you should at least date someone for some time and be sure whether you love this person, or you are just feeling emotional at the time.
Most men think with a different head and is easier for them to tell you how much they love you...is better to look for their actions and see if they really mean it.
I hope that when you're saying you love your boyfriend, you really mean it. Its not fair to tell him a lie and even worst to tell yourself another lie...Be always honest with yourself!

Personality Disorders are formed between the ages of 3 and 5 years old. So no, someone else can not 'give you' narcissism.

For myself, I am certainly not as trusting as I was and I do not see that as a bad thing. I was trusting to a fault. I thought everyone was 'good'. Sandra Brown calls this 'a naive world view'.

Now someone is going to have to prove themselves to me. How is this bad? I should have had that in place before. I should have been looking for character flaws instead of falling for someone's good looks and then trying to impose my fantasty of what I thought he was onto him instead of clearly looking at him and seeing what he was, not what I wanted him to be.

Here is what my Narc mentor wrote:

On this healing journey, we face split off parts of ourselves that were judged to be inappropriate. We are working through the shame of being defective, wrong, unworthy of peoples time and attention. Whatever tactics narcissistic parents used to silence us, must be countered as adults. So if you were shamed into silencing yourself, the antidote is Speaking Up. Asserting yourself TO your self. You may never have known the True You. Now is the time for you to become so comfortable with I am that you are able to confront behaviors that were formerly unconscious. Your psyche knows when you are ready to do this hard work and you must be prepared to face whatever you must because you are here and you are seeking.

You Must Make yourself REAL and this means reclaiming your feelings, your experiences, your thoughts, your behaviors, all aspects of yourself that were formerly denied.

If anyone wonders whether or not they are pathologically narcissistic and might require longterm treatment, ask yourself these questions:

1- Are you capable of commitment? Maybe you have not yet met trustworthy people with whom commitment was reciprocal. But are you capable of a sustaining a committed relationship with someone and it does NOT have to be a romantic relationship. It can be a friend, your children, relatives, a mentor, a therapist, anyone with whom you feel safe enough to extend trust and compassion. Just One Person.

2- Are you able to tolerate criticism (valid), failures/mistakes, and successes without withdrawing, running, hiding from yourself and others, or justifying reactionary behavior that harms anyone you perceive to be a threat? Criticism, failure and even success are difficult for everyone. But do these situations increase our grandiosity? Do they justify harming others to protect our grandiosity? Are we driven to protect ourselves with defenses that block our growth?

3- Are you empathic? Are you able to put yourself in other peoples shoes? Are you able to see how you impact people for the better along with your negative impact? Do you dismiss your worth and value as a person? Even this can be the result of the narcissistic legacy destroying connections between ourselves and others.

4- Are you capable of introspection? Are you able to connect the dots between your reactions/behaviors and underlying, unhealed wounds or childish misperceptions? Can you take responsibility for your mistakes, faulty reasoning, distorted perceptions, and recognize that you have reacted to unexamined causes? If you can do this, if you can bear the pain of breaking through your defenses, then you have a healthy chance of working through whatever degree of narcissism you may fortunate enough to see.


Many of us feel alienated from ourselves by the time we find a message board. We arent even sure what we think, believe, or feel anymore. Our good qualities have been invalidated or judged as defects. Our bad qualities have been denied to protect our fragile sense of self. Our task then, is to get to know ourselves, to integrate aspects of the self that have been repressed, defended against, silenced...literally rejected by ourselves. Who Are We? I daresay most of us are questioning that point by the time the narcissist has finished his or her work.

FROM:

http://www.webofnarcissism.com/forums/index.php/topic,7554.0.html

. thank you susy i like that... its not that someone can give you narcissism, its more of that, you can become withdrawn, and angry enough once you start feeling your emotions again, that it seems the table has completely flipped. i was NEVER angry. i always compromised, i always found a way to rationalize what was going on, however ridiculous it was. now im a mess. i flip out at the smallest things sometimes. i found message boards, and started this one, BEFORE my ex, and if i thought i was lost then, i certainly am now.
its strange, though, right before i had the baby, i was so strong, so sure of myself, and i have to ask, what the hell happened to bring me to this state? and i just dont know.

and yes mariosa, i know he loves me, he does show it. he is a very stable person emotionally, and we go through periods where, i dont, or cant have sex, it freaks me out, and he is ok with that. he just sticks by me. i love him, yes, i respect him, yes, and i in love with him? well, i dont think i can be "in love" again. too many false pretenses and false starts before. which is the question always in my mind, could i ever?
and if i find out i can again, will it be with him, or will he not be enough anymore.
at this point we just have to play it out, he has already been in my daughters life, and mine, and i cant and wouldnt just boot him out if it because i think i want something else. cause hell, i dont know what i want right now much, i just know what i dont want, and what i dont want is, my past and my past relationships to ever make it to the future.