You have been encouraging to so many of us, and now reading your post (twice) I figured I'd offer my two cents. No you're not being a fool. Yes you may have insecurities, but don't we all. All that you said about hurt, and anger, feelings of being betrayed by hanging out with his ex, I think are normal. My first thought was if you're feeling all of that, what does it say about your relationship with him? I have been in your situation before and I don't think there's any correct answer to your concerns. I felt there was a red flag when you mentioned that he considered his ex his best friend. In my own experiences, guys who had an ex as their best friend, didn't make for a good relationship between me and him. Maybe there's others who've had a great relationship with a guy whose ex was their best friend. In relationships, healthy relationships, I think you have to ask yourself if what you're experiencing angst about is a deal breaker or not. Oftentimes we are in a relationship too soon, and find ourselves clinging. In a healthy relationship we can stand on our own confidence, and a man is a compliment to the relationship, not our saving grace. Two imperfect people coming together, CAN have a healthy relationship, however not with the expectation that the other will be meeting all of our needs. Just as an outsider looking in, and understanding your comments, I would have to ask why his ex is his best friend, and not a guy. Is his ex in a relationship? You are asking good questions, so give yourself a pat on the back, and don't put yourself down for questioning things. Maybe you need to be questioning things and stepping back and taking a look at yourself and the relationship. It's easy to get caught up in the relationship, especially if things are going well. Don't make yourself crazy. If he is truly interested in being with you, then a frank discussion to clear the air would be the healthy thing to do. If you can't talk about things in an honest way without name calling or blaming, then how can you make a foundation. One book that comes to mind is "Love and Respect", and I found it helpful in communicating in a relationship. Thanks for your post. That's what we're here for. Hugs to you, and I'm sure others will be chiming in in support. I appreciate everyone here.

Thank you. I appreciate everyone here too... i dont know where i would be without this place, and i know others feel the same way. there is a connection that happens here on this group between us that is special and hard to find in any support group, online or otherwise.

He was angry that i was upset. said to chill out and "drop it"
he painted a very bad picture of her, and wanted a life without drama. she cheated on him, and i have heard her call him names. she took out loans in his name when she had power of attorney. put him in debt... broke his stuff when he left her even. what i cant fathom.... is WHY would you want that in your life? and why would you sacrifice a good relationship for being friends with that? at first they were just talking over text. he said he wanted to be friends. i didnt like it. i expressed that i didnt like it and didnt understand and i didnt want to hear about her. the dinner wasnt the first time they hung out. apparently he took her to a movie. he is paying for all this. its not like friends meeting for dinner and her paying her part. i dunno. something inside me is screaming this isnt right, and i have to listen to it. i dont think he is cheating, but if he cant break that attachment to the unhealthy way of life, then how can i stay? I left my nice guy ex, to search for my true happiness, because when it came down to it, i wasnt happy with him in spite of how i loved him. because if i cant be happy and take those risks, then how am i going to raise my daughter to get all she can and wants out of life?
and now im faced with another decision. my question, am i being a fool? is, would i be foolish to keep trying? he did betray me, omitting info directly and purposefully, is in fact lying, then blaming me for it, saying well you didnt want to know so i didnt tell you, is lying. as far as i know, good men, in a good relationship, do not go out with their ex girlfriends without their current girlfriend or wifes permission. to sit in a movie theatre, or an expensive meal. it wasnt like they ate at mcdonalds. they met in the mall, then left to go eat there, in my favorite restaurant. if it was just casual visiting, and he was just buying her lunch, why wouldnt they eat in the food court? why the nessecity to eat there? while leaving me at home, even though i had a babysitter for my daughter. i stayed home to help him with his homework as well.
it is wrong. plain and simple. and i cannot shake this feeling out of my chest. honeymoon phase is over, its show your true colors time. i think i might have seen enough. it just hurts, to have to do this again.
i took a leap of faith, and fell miserably. and i will not take such a leap again with my beautiful little girl.
i have time, to observe things, to see how it truly pans out. but i can already see it most likely wont be good. i messaged the girl, said very nicely and simply, that if there was something going on i should know... and that if there was i would leave. because if i had to fight for a man.. it wasnt the man for me. i have too much dignity to lower myself to quarrels of that nature. she has not responded. i also said, that if there was nothing going on and they were truly friends, that she would respect me, and we should all sit down and talk so there are no hard feelings. apparently he texted her and she did not respond to him either, and he was very upset, saying he just lost his best friend. he was wondering if i told her we lived together, saying he didnt want her to know, or anyone to know, because it was his business. that got me on edge bad. in his upset state, he started with the crazy making. he wanted to go eat. ok. i get in my car, cause the car seat was there with my daughter. he wanted to take the new truck. i said ok lets just take two cars cause i dont want to haul the carseat out. he got upset, said he was no longer hungry. i said ok well im going to go get my daughter dinner. he showed up at the specified restaurant. he didnt eat. followed us home. when i was getting out he grabs my daughter and carseat, put it in his truck and says im hungry, lets go eat, get in the truck. i said why didnt you eat there... he said he didnt want mexican.
but when we were leaving and i asked where to? he said he didnt know. i rode with him, he got some popeyes chicken. i was suposed to go out for a friends birthday and he was going to watch my daughter.
he made a big deal about it. the suddenly switched and had me go. i went cause i needed to.
but crazy making. i hate crazy making. hungry. not hungry.
a good man, would not realize it was a stressful day/evening, and let me just be and go inside, not make me ride with him to find something to eat. where i get stuck in my head with this is... when im upset im not all sane either, but how far is too far? how much is too much? and i know its right on the line.
he is not understanding. he thinks i am trying to control who he hangs out with. not the case. the principal is, im uncomfortable with it, we are in a relationship, and you should either take steps to show me its ok, or not do it until i am. i would show him the same respect. i dont hang out with my ex, also my daughters step dad, as much as i would like. we are good friends. we were friends before, we had an established relationship, and it wasnt a bad one, it just ceased to grow... and we came out friends again, and still raise my daughter. its not his bio daughter. her real dad lives 5 minutes down the road from me, and never sees her. and i wouldnt want anyone else to ever be in the daddy position. he is stable, kind, and can show her what a good man is, just like he showed me. i didnt leave for lack of love, i left because we had different life goals, i talk about it alot because i feel guilty for doing so. well, like i always say, this too will pass... nothing too good or too bad lasts too long... so it was good for a while, time for some bad times until good ones come again.

I smell a rat D. and I think you do too. It is one thing to hang out with his ex and be upfront about it, and quite another to pretend he was doing something different. He is wrong, and seems like he wants to pretend he wasn't. I wouldn't like it one bit...I think if you were that important to him and there was nothing there he would have invited you to come. I would think long and hard about this one...cuz it seems like he is sending a not so subtle message.

I am so sorry you are feeling this way today; I hope my thoughts will ease your mind a little bit ... and I share them with so much gratitude you started this site. And I'm so far away from feeling healed. Still, here goes. I guess in a perfect scenario, he would be able to read between your lines and know that even though you said you didn't want to hear about it, and he would speak with you, saying he knows what you said, and he also knows how much honesty means to you and he would not want you to feel threatened. Of course, it is NOT a perfect scenario ... not a single one is, right? And he may have goofed up just this once, or he may be showing his true colors. I know that even if I meet a close-to-perfect man tomorrow, I will feel insecure somehow ... he's too nice to me and I don't believe I deserve it, or he will have friends, etc. I own my stuff. I do think we can push a man away by being possessive. Did you ever find out what the family stuff was about? There are so many "what if's" here. And you. And him. I still say be in the moment, take your time, and take care of you. Try not to push too hard; I always regret when I do. Sending you love.

Thanks Malky. the problem is figuring which one... after what i have been through, do i run, or do i stay.

Hi sweet honey Dracona ...

I'm so sorry for what you're going through. I can feel the pain in your words.

I don't know your story, but this all kind of stinks to me.

"... apparently he texted her and she did not respond to him either, and he was very upset, saying he just lost his best friend. he was wondering if i told her we lived together, saying he didnt want her to know, or anyone to know, because it was his business." <--- This is a pretty big red flag to me.

I am not in a great healthy place myself, and I still am making mistakes, but what I am doing pretty well is listening to myself. I've had many issues with trusting my perceptions about things and as a result tolerated all kinds of bad behavior because of the 'crazy making'.

But I am making a decision to trust what I feel. I am distinguishing between the voice that tells me I'm overreacting etc (often what HE would tell me) and the voice that tells me something is wrong. I have decided to listen to the voice that warns me instead of the one that makes me question myself.

My feeling is this: The issue is this makes you uncomfortable. period (and the way you describe it, I think it'd make most of us uncomfortable, so you're NOT overreacting.) I don't think you need to defend yourself to him to convince him you're justified in being uncomfortable, because you'll probably lose.

Instead of letting him try to convince you that you're wrong, and you subsequently trying to convince him you're right (which is CRAZY MAKING!!!!), I would start with the FACT that this makes you uncomfortable. Then speak in 'I' terms about what bothers you, ie; 'if makes me uncomfortable when you keep secrets from me with your ex-girlfriend,' and then what would help you feel more comfortable. ie: 'I would feel more comfortable if there were no secrets.' 'It would help me trust you if your ex girlfriend knew that you and I were committed and living with each other.'

And before you do it, prepare yourself for what he might say, because it may not be what you want to hear.

I am making the concious decision to listen to myself. I trust I have what I need to know what is best and safe for me. And while I might be 'wrong' some of the time, I'd rather err on my side than anyone else's.

Please keep us posted.

Love and Strength to you,

Patty

I can feel your turmoil and sadness and am very sorry you are going through this right now...Yes...you are absolutely correct that THIS WILL PASS...hold onto that! Also, It's ok to not make a decision right away -- give yourself a break and take all the time YOU need to determine what is best for YOU. I make mistakes every single day, but have come along way from where I once was. I hope he will be willing and able to have an honest discussion with you about all of this. You are beautiful just the way you are :)

To say you need to be alone and then go be with someone else is a flat out lie. I am not a big fan of lying.

Just keep your eyes open and remember the rule of 3:

Rule 3: When considering a new relationship of any kind, practice the Rule of Threes regarding the claims and promises a person makes, and the responsibilities he or she has.

Make the Rule of Threes your personal policy. One lie, one broken promise, or a single neglected responsibility may be a misunderstanding instead. Two may involve a serious mistake. But three lies says youre dealing with a liar, and deceit is the linchpin of conscienceless behavior. Cut your losses and get out as soon as you can. Leaving, though it may be hard, will be easier now than later, and less costly.

Do not give your money, your work, your secrets, or your affection to a three-timer. Your valuable gifts will be wasted.

I learned a lot from all of these posts. Thank you, everyone.

Thank you... and yes, the rule of 3... this is one. and i already told him i do not believe in apologies, i believe in actions. after what i have been through, if you want to apologize, i will listen, and it gets filed away in a box, and will not be accepted until actions prove that the apology was sincere. "im sorry's" mean NOTHING to me. what bothers me, is not so much the act of what happened but how the reaction was. I am not a fan of the crazy making, and i will not engage. I am not giving him the benefit of the doubt, nor am i assuming the worst at this point. i am removing myself. I am taking a weekend out with a friend. me and my daughter. i have inquired on a couple places that might fit us if i were to move. im not without my options... and im not being stupid. im prepared for the pain shall i have to make the final break, and i can be ok. itll hurt, but not like before. i dont think i can be hurt again. its like when you break a leg, or sprain it, it always hurts worse the first time.... if you do it again you know exactly what happened, and what to do, and the severity of it, and about how long the pain will last. and it becomes a oops, its messed up again, other than an initial freak out of oh my god i will never walk again. this time i dont even need a doctor. its just disheartening. there is a small chance it could all pan out... but im not holding on to it. if it does, great, if it doesnt, then its whatever, im not compromising myself.

That's great Dracona!! You give many of us inspiration by your thoughts and actions. I know it will all work out for the best for you. I can hope that someday things will be as clear to me as they can be for you. Keep your head up and keep looking forward for what's best for you and your daughter.

Dracona, I haven't been around much lately on DS..but I do remember your strength and wise posts in the past. I am here to say a few things out of love and support to a sista!!! First and foremost, he is not who you thought he was. Period end of story... He lied and the rule of 3 is applicaple as you well know. Secondly, men never can be friends with a woman. All men have sex in mind, even your guy friends who are your friends have sexual feelings (maybe not overtly). Secondly, I am a firm believer that we get tested over and oever again. Kind of a funny way that God/Universe says are you serious this time, or are you going to punk out. When we stand up to ourselves to heal ourselves, we get tested. Aloneness is the best medication and therapy for healing, it allows us to embrace ourselves. We learn to rely only on ourselves; the truth is, the fantasy of having a loving relationship is not what happiness is built on. True happiness really comes from within. The pain and aloneness ulimately forces us to embrace our hurt, rejection and other feelings. Once we embrace these feelings, we end up empowered because we realilize we can.

The other point I wanted to make comes deep from my heart. I was a single mother with two young children years ago. I wanted the picket fence the family image a daddy to love my kids and love me. I didn't want my kids to feel abandoned or unloved. I tried SOOOO hard to protect them from an evil world and a world of hurt. I ultimately married a man who after two years of vetting him out, ended up being a child molester. I am not insinuating this is the case at all here with you. I am telling you this because I believe in my heart that I wanted a daddy so bad for my kids and that perhaps I may have missed red flags about this guy. I am not suggesting that I ever suspected anything, because i NEVER did, but there were some quirks about him, that in looking back, I now see were red flags. Thus, my desire to give my kids a good family life overruled my objectivity and ulimately delivered the worse blow in a child's life: stolen innocence. I must tell you looking back, my kids didn't need a dad, they had ME... something they both have told me as teenagers and young adults. I thought I was doing the right thing for them. The right thing would have been to trust my mothering instincts, accept the cards we were given and raise my kids myself. I can't undo what happened but it is my biggest regret. Because to be truthful Dracona, I was trying to heal my own hurts by attempting to avoid the same hurts in their lives. I am saying this to you because I hear your love for your daughter through your words. I want to encourage you to love you.. trust you and believe in you. Don't worry if she doesn't have a daddy, she has you. If you are whole and healing that is all she needs. A man won't fix this. The best gift you can give her is a strong, healing and accountable mother. She will be fine. Don't allow your painful past to dictate who comes into your life, especially with regards to your child. Does that make sense? I really felt like I needed to share that with you.

Dump the guy and move on. Live for Dracona and her baby, forget about him. You are right, men don't have lady friends and definitely don't do dinner and movies. Don't beat yourself up, your vision was clouded I believe because you are a mother and wanted her to have a good life. You and you alone can give her that. BELIEVE in you.. LOVE you and you will soar... God Bless and be strong!!!

"i have guy friends with wives/gf's and i dont hang out with them alone, out of respect for their lives, i would not ever create a situation that was uncomfortable for them because i care about them."

Exactly. Nor would I, or any of the other ladies on here. Obviously this girl does not care about you and how you feel about her being with your man. Why would he associate with someone who disrespects you? isn't that showing you disrespect by extension? Dude's behavior is very unclassy. That's not how a man treats a woman he loves. What's that song....When a man, loves a woman....wahhhh wahhh wahhh etc. You deserve to be loved and treated with respect! Ultimately it may come down to you and your little one being your own little family. But if you demonstrate to your daughter that it's ok to be disrespected by a man, what kind of example is this giving her? No man is worth your tears!! Hang in there honey....sending you hugs and love

WOW. thanks you two, artgrrl, i will meet with her, if anything just for more confirmation for me to leave, to have it in my face so i know. nothing she will say could ever change my mind, and there is more i want to know besides about them, and i can read her expressions. this based on, is he dangerous, and should i put him in jail to protect others.

and so nice to see you again merrylegs, i remember your story. it is sad, and that is exactly the type of situation i am in, however, i am greatful for one thing. my daughter, will ever only have, one daddy. inspite of my differences with austin, we ARE friends, and he remains in her life as a caring and stable adult, even if not financially, and he is even my friend through this. im glad i had the relationship i did with him, because at least because of him, i now know what a kind man is, and what a stable man isnt. its not a guessing game. and whether or not i have another relationship... he will remain her daddy. he has proven himself that he can be there for her, and should anything happen to me, i couldnt think of anyone else i would trust to take care of her to the best of my wishes. Im sorry for what happened, and i know it will be hard, if not impossible to blame yourself for the rest of your life for their hurt, at least that is what i would do whether i wanted to or not. but it could have happened, either way. with those things you just dont know till its over, what is a red flag for one man, is a normal thing for another. sometimes we only see things as red flags in the aftermath, because it matches up. its hard, because there are people who show signs that could be red flags, but are really just a quirk, and that is where time and intuition come in, apparently something i have yet to learn as well. its easy to have hindsight bias... and think we knew it all along and use that information to blame and sabotage ourselves, as is our nature as WWLTM. but we have to remember that you never truly know till its over, and we just have to make ourselves strong enough for the fall. You did what you thought was best at the time, and in the long run, i think its all any of us can do. we shouldnt feel wrong for wanting the picket fence and family. it is our nature as a social species to want that. I like the idea of being tested over and over again. today i was thinking how incredibly tired i was... of the same old story. how i try and try to fix myself and end up in the same place, how weary my soul feels. how stupid i was... i even gave my car to a friend to take over payments, to drive his extra car, and take over payments on that one to help him out. ugh. well at least i got my name on the registration, but i want no contact once im gone. i dont care for the craziness of association.
at least, i have been here before, done that, and well, its just old news. i wish someone would drop off a new subscription for something, because i am very bored of seeing the same thing.

i am looking at a place today, i hope it works out, i really do. its a one bedroom. i figure my daughter can have the room... ill take the living room and get futon furniture, and we will live in our little place for as long as it permits. because this ends now. when she was telling ME it was ok the other day, i looked in her eyes, and she looked like a grown up... deep understanding and concern. she was not my little girl in that moment, she was an adult, taking care of her mom who was too upset to stand. no more. she can only be a comfort to me if she doesnt know it, by watching a disney movie and cuddling, not because she sees me hurt and feels the need to hold me.
No man threatens me. I have years and years of pent up abuse and anger, and if he thinks he was going to try to scare me to gain control by throwing my stuff around, he is entirely mistaken. Boy i have seen your kind again and again, i am not afraid, and i will win your game.
right now, until a place is final, i am keeping him calm, but staying distant. i am secretly getting my important stuff out slowly, and saving money to do so. meeting with places while he thinks i am somewhere else. i told him today in a text, that my heart was sad, that i wasnt handling what happened between us well, just to see what he would say. he sent me a sad face back. i brought up how i felt about my daughter, and that he had yelled at my mom in my defense when she did the same thing and how it was unacceptable. he said he didnt know what to say...and to talk about it when i got home. and when i told him i was on the way home, i got here and he was sleeping, not ready to talk.
that was all the answer i needed to hear to know that this is completely unsalvageable and it is time to run. the last straw. had he said, ok, what happened was wrong, lets go to counseling, whatever it takes, because there are things i need to fix within myself, and we need to learn to communicate properly if we are to be together... would have been the mature and responsible reply, or something along those lines.
not that counseling would fix it, but the act and time and commitment it takes to go and acknowledge there is a problem, shows a person is worthy of some attention if they follow through with it. and it has to be their idea, not me saying you should go to counseling.
so thats enough for me... done... goodbye, thanks for the nice ride while it lasted, i believed you for a little while, good luck with your life, you will need it because you will be stuck in that circle forever but i wish you the best. my daughter is most important, and she should never see mommy cry because a man yelled at her over her confronting him over a lie.