Widows & Widowers Support Group
This community is dedicated to those who have lost a husband, wife, or partner. Anything is open for discussion here, with the hope that we can focus on grief, bereavement, life after loss, and continuing on after a great loss.
I think it freaks alot of people out when I say "I don't believe in death"...I think that violates a few belief paradigms, especially religious ones which are built upon the concept of "death", or the fear of it.
In America, the First Amendment gives religion the right to build belief paradigms upon the concept of "death"...and it also gives people like me the right to rebut those paradigms.
I spent most of my life believing the religious paradigms about "death" until three years ago last December 28...two days before that, I attended the funeral of my cousin Veronica who I grew up with and is like a sister to me...on the 28th I was in the truck on my way to pick up a load in snowy western Ohio...driving through the tiny town of Upper Sandusky, the municipal Christmas display was particularly beautiful in a light falling snow...and for no particular reason I thought of Veronica and said "Hey How 'bout it, Ron, this place ain't politically correct, is it?"
And I won't say that I actually "heard" her with my physical ears, because I don't think I did...but her answer came to me so strong, that I am really not sure about that...and in that smart-ass way she liked to chide me, I heard her words..."And how long was I supposed to wait on you to finally notice...duhhh?" Ron never missed a chance to hit me with the "duhhh"-bomb, and that's when it occured to me...how could they say she "died"? She was right there with me!
And there is something that came with it...the overwhelming joy that I felt in my heart with the idea that her Spirit had touched mine...they are not supposed to do that if they are "dead", are they?
How many who are reading this feel they understand what "death" truly is? Even formal medicine is having a problem defining exactly "when" physiological death actually occurs...conventional wisdom says "when the heart no longer beats on its own"..others say when EKG goes flat...."BUT"...why can they not explain why patients who were in a state of clinical "death" were able to accurately recall the conversations and procedures of medical personnel which took place when they were supposed to be "dead"?
https://books.google.com/books?id=5zR5dE8ch_oC&pg=PA156&lpg=PA156&dq=dead+patients+recall+conversations&source=bl&ots=MJVahxSbl4&sig=jBulZh4mHJYV5sPgPMgBFb-cp7s&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjoi-76-eTLAhVCnoMKHS8mD4QQ6AEIKjAC#v=onepage&q=dead%20patients%20recall%20conversations&f=false
Fascinating reading there, folks!
Six months later "Aunt Vern" Veronica's mother, who was closer to me than my own mother, passed into Spirit..the day that I got the news, I was sitting in a truckstop in, once again, Upper Sandusky Ohio (I still don't know what it is about that place), a beautiful sunny spring day...after I received the call, I was just sitting there behind the wheel trying to process it...I look in the driver-side mirror, and two beautiful black-crested cardinals landed on the fender of the tanker trailer I was hooked to, LOOKED RIGHT AT ME, and started singing in unison...I didn't think anything about it at first, because I was still in la-la-land from the call I just received..they took off, and a couple minutes later I look into the passenger-side mirror, and those same two red cardinals landed on the trailer-fender on that side, again looked right at me, and started singing in unison.
Now I was paying attention...and it occurred to me that the reason there were two of them, is because Uncle Louis her husband preceeded her 26 years earlier...and today they were reunited for eternity!
Coincidence? How many coincidences does a grown person have to experience, before they flat stop believing in them? I stopped believing in them a long time ago.
But for anyone who really wants to hear it, I'll tell you what I DO believe in...I believe that after being apart for over 26 years of grief and agony...on May 28, 2013, Aunt Vern and Uncle Louis were reunited for eternity...I believe that one day, I will be united with Marylou in eternity...and I believe that each and every one of us here who has "lost" a spouse, will be rejoined with their Beloved in eternity.
Should I continue to believe in that...or should I "get back to reality", and blindly invest my faith in coincidence?
You already have my answer.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbkgj5J91hE
In America, the First Amendment gives religion the right to build belief paradigms upon the concept of "death"...and it also gives people like me the right to rebut those paradigms.
I spent most of my life believing the religious paradigms about "death" until three years ago last December 28...two days before that, I attended the funeral of my cousin Veronica who I grew up with and is like a sister to me...on the 28th I was in the truck on my way to pick up a load in snowy western Ohio...driving through the tiny town of Upper Sandusky, the municipal Christmas display was particularly beautiful in a light falling snow...and for no particular reason I thought of Veronica and said "Hey How 'bout it, Ron, this place ain't politically correct, is it?"
And I won't say that I actually "heard" her with my physical ears, because I don't think I did...but her answer came to me so strong, that I am really not sure about that...and in that smart-ass way she liked to chide me, I heard her words..."And how long was I supposed to wait on you to finally notice...duhhh?" Ron never missed a chance to hit me with the "duhhh"-bomb, and that's when it occured to me...how could they say she "died"? She was right there with me!
And there is something that came with it...the overwhelming joy that I felt in my heart with the idea that her Spirit had touched mine...they are not supposed to do that if they are "dead", are they?
How many who are reading this feel they understand what "death" truly is? Even formal medicine is having a problem defining exactly "when" physiological death actually occurs...conventional wisdom says "when the heart no longer beats on its own"..others say when EKG goes flat...."BUT"...why can they not explain why patients who were in a state of clinical "death" were able to accurately recall the conversations and procedures of medical personnel which took place when they were supposed to be "dead"?
https://books.google.com/books?id=5zR5dE8ch_oC&pg=PA156&lpg=PA156&dq=dead+patients+recall+conversations&source=bl&ots=MJVahxSbl4&sig=jBulZh4mHJYV5sPgPMgBFb-cp7s&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjoi-76-eTLAhVCnoMKHS8mD4QQ6AEIKjAC#v=onepage&q=dead%20patients%20recall%20conversations&f=false
Fascinating reading there, folks!
Six months later "Aunt Vern" Veronica's mother, who was closer to me than my own mother, passed into Spirit..the day that I got the news, I was sitting in a truckstop in, once again, Upper Sandusky Ohio (I still don't know what it is about that place), a beautiful sunny spring day...after I received the call, I was just sitting there behind the wheel trying to process it...I look in the driver-side mirror, and two beautiful black-crested cardinals landed on the fender of the tanker trailer I was hooked to, LOOKED RIGHT AT ME, and started singing in unison...I didn't think anything about it at first, because I was still in la-la-land from the call I just received..they took off, and a couple minutes later I look into the passenger-side mirror, and those same two red cardinals landed on the trailer-fender on that side, again looked right at me, and started singing in unison.
Now I was paying attention...and it occurred to me that the reason there were two of them, is because Uncle Louis her husband preceeded her 26 years earlier...and today they were reunited for eternity!
Coincidence? How many coincidences does a grown person have to experience, before they flat stop believing in them? I stopped believing in them a long time ago.
But for anyone who really wants to hear it, I'll tell you what I DO believe in...I believe that after being apart for over 26 years of grief and agony...on May 28, 2013, Aunt Vern and Uncle Louis were reunited for eternity...I believe that one day, I will be united with Marylou in eternity...and I believe that each and every one of us here who has "lost" a spouse, will be rejoined with their Beloved in eternity.
Should I continue to believe in that...or should I "get back to reality", and blindly invest my faith in coincidence?
You already have my answer.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbkgj5J91hE
No one has actually died as of yet. The physical body in which our spiritual body is living in stops working at some point and we transition into our new spiritual body to be with the Father. The Bible tells us that to be absent in the body is to be present with the Lord. So we simply move into the spiritual realm in paradise waiting for the final judgment day when those souls who don't make it will be destroyed for eternity. During this time God does allow some to bring a message if needed to those having an extra difficult time trying to adjust and so they bring us these signs to bring comfort that they are alive in the realm and happy.
This world without argument is at best temporary. Nothing here is forever, we have all found this out in the most painful way. But there is hope and that is where they are is permanent and eternal. So reality for me is paradise. And this does freak out some that how could I believe in something that I can't see, But I can see it thru my spiritual eyes that are inside this flesh body my spiritual body inhabits. Let those who have eyes to see , see and those with ears to hear, hear. Eighty8 we will be with them again and it's more than just me believing, I know without a doubt it is the truth. After all I'm betting my life on it. And I only bet on a sure thing.
Peace my friend, Tim
Not near as comforting as "Knowing" that all of us have a reunion in our future!
It could be with "signs" that they may occur when we are NOT paying attention, and NOT occur when we ARE...best as I can tell, it's hit-or-miss at best.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
- Hamlet (1.5.167-8), Hamlet to Horatio
I will tell you that I no longer fear death, that I view it as a change of physical status nothing more. Like grieving guy I have never had messages or signs, but I am not looking for them. The great unknown is just that, the unknown, which we shall all know in time.
Hugs,
Val
I also have had other experiences. My father passed when I was 23 years old and NOT ready for him to go. Invisible hands held my face and turned my face up where I then FELT what it feels like where dad's spirit was...in heaven! The pure love, joy, and complete peace! I KNEW I was somehow feeling the realm my father passed into. He came now and then over time, lifting my face upward, once taking me thru the stars, no temperature...just beauty and immense joy! . One other friend who passed paid me a single visit within that week. And now Mark....I realize he actually saw me pray for him in my car that morning ....that comforts me. Thanks 88 for sharing.
that's for sure...I believe that Our Lord approves of any contact we have with departed Loved Ones...He certainly approves of prayer!