Victory Over Victim Community Group
This Board Is Created So That Those Of Us Who Have Been Abused Sexually, Mentally, Financially, Emotionally, Physically Can Rid Ourselves Of The Label "Victim". Even Though We May Have Been Victimized, We Are NOT Victims: WE ARE VICTORIOUS". The Simple Fact That After All You have Endured You Found Your Way To This Page Means Your Are A SURVIOR". Now Let's Not Stop...
Hi everyone, I'm not sure how everyone, or anyone for that matter feels about this issue, but please keep an open mind. As you know I'm bisexual, this is because of some major emotional issues. I don't remember how much of this I've told you, or how much you remember so I'm going to give a short refresher then ask my question. I really hope I don't offend anyone.
I know that I've been attracted to men since I was about 6 years old. I know this because of some things I did at that age that allowed me to view the male body, and occasionally even touch it. I don't know if a person is born gay, or not and I don't even form an opinion much less debate it, because I just don't know, to be honest I don't care,I know who I am and I don't worry about the rest. As I said, I have some very deep seated emotional issues, things that go back to before I can remember, that cause me to need to have a man in my life. This need is for the emotional support that I can only get from a man. Please just trust me on that so don't have to try and explain it, that could take a while. I have no desire for a romantic, or sexual relationship with a man. I just have some emotional demons that can only be driven away by being held close by a man. I think all of us here can understand those demons and how much sense they make. All I need or want is just to have a man let me put my head on his shoulder, and him wrap his arms around me, and hold me tight, protecting me, making me feel secure, caring for me, loving me, showing me I am worthy, showing me I can be accepted by other men, and showing me that I'm not hopeless, or worthless, and I deserve to live.
My wife however, has her own demons, demons that make her very insecure, very vulnerable, and very touchy. She does not even want to think about me having a gay friend, she even gets jealous of my straight friends, as if something might happen between us. If I even mention that I need to have a gay friend to talk to, someone that understands some of my emotions, someone that can relate to my pain, and someone that can reduce my pain, she covers her ears and starts saying the D-word (divorce).
Every so often I'll have a wave of emotions hit me, during those times until the wave subsides, I almost have to have a male friend I can talk to. My choices are, 1 a friend, 2 a psych ward 3 hurting my family beyond what I thought imaginable. I can't deal with going into a psych ward every so often for a couple of weeks, to several months just to keep from hurting my family. But that is what I've had to do in the past. I have enough issues with my physical health, and going inpatient like that only makes things worse, and harder to deal with. I makes my physical pain worse to be in an environment that is not set up to allow me to be comfortable, and a routine that forces me to push through the pain when I should be resting, I shouldn't have to do that to myself, it's not right.
However, my wife feels (and I don't blame her, considering everything her fears are not only understandable, but expected), that if I ever develop a relationship with a man, that I'll leave her. But see the thing is, over the last few years, there has been twice that I had a friendship with a gay man, one was one of my exes, we ran into each other and started talking, he would come by the house and me, him, and my wife would sit and talk for hours, she knew he was an ex, but did not care. Then there was the time that she introduced me to a gay guy that she had worked with. I would go by his house and talk for a while, she would go with me and the three of us sit and talk. She was ok with both of these. But, when I told her that I needed to find a gay friend that I could talk to she freaked out. If it happened by accident she was ok, if it was planned that was a different story. She doesn't know that I stopped talking to both of those guys because they both came on to me, I got up walked out and never looked back.
In her own insecurities she is terrified of losing me, so she threatens to leave me, doesn't make sense to me. I have tried to calm her fears and explain to her what the situation is, that only hurt her worse because now I'm telling her that she can't meet my emotional needs. That is after all the whole point of being bisexual, having needs that require both sexes in order to be whole, or complete. How can I convince her that I'm not trying to leave her, that this is not a reflection of her, that this is just something that I need so that I don't hurt constantly? I love her with all my heart, and there is no way I can live without her. I have told her that I would do whatever/give up whatever I had to so we could stay together. I meant that, I will give it up if I have to, but I also have to try to convince her that it's ok before I give up completely.I tell her that she's the reason I get out of bed everyday, and it's the truth, without her in my life,I would not continue to live through this pain I'm in for very long, and without her I never would have made it this far, she makes all my physical suffering worth it.
At the end of the day though, I'm still bisexual, I still have needs only a woman can meet, and needs only a man can meet. As a matter of fact, the only time I'm ever at peace, is in the arms of a man. I can not have peace any other way. Peace is something that is almost a requirement for all of us to experience from time to time, to rest and recharge and get ready for the next fight, I only get that from a man. I don't like that, I wish it was different, but it's not and I can't change it. I can choose whether or not to try and get that peace, but without it, I'm afraid I won't live much longer.
I said earlier that I could have just done it, and not told her the truth about how I met him, But I love her to much for that. I can only be honest with her. See, a friend of mines 70 year old mother, told me the other day that she could put me in touch with two or three gay guys, we could even meet at her house so that my wife didn't know what was going on. Then whenever/IF I ever convinced her that I'm not leaving her, that I don't love her any less, and she agrees to let me see someone, then I could just pretend that I had just met him. I can't tell you how much I wanted her to make those phone calls, it was like being a cocaine addict in a house made of cocaine, all you could ever want, just reach out and take it. But, I can't do that, I felt so guilty for even considering it, I told her before I did anything because I love her, and wanted her to know what I was doing. I could have met up with some guys, pretended to meet them some other way, and she would have never known the difference. But I love her too much for that. When I say I don't want these needs for a man, I don't want them, I'll give them to someone else very quick, but it looks like I'm stuck with them. I've tried for 42 years to get rid of them, and they are still here. I have to get a break from this emotional pain I'm in. I hurt so bad emotionally it physically hurts my chest. Any suggestions?
I know that I've been attracted to men since I was about 6 years old. I know this because of some things I did at that age that allowed me to view the male body, and occasionally even touch it. I don't know if a person is born gay, or not and I don't even form an opinion much less debate it, because I just don't know, to be honest I don't care,I know who I am and I don't worry about the rest. As I said, I have some very deep seated emotional issues, things that go back to before I can remember, that cause me to need to have a man in my life. This need is for the emotional support that I can only get from a man. Please just trust me on that so don't have to try and explain it, that could take a while. I have no desire for a romantic, or sexual relationship with a man. I just have some emotional demons that can only be driven away by being held close by a man. I think all of us here can understand those demons and how much sense they make. All I need or want is just to have a man let me put my head on his shoulder, and him wrap his arms around me, and hold me tight, protecting me, making me feel secure, caring for me, loving me, showing me I am worthy, showing me I can be accepted by other men, and showing me that I'm not hopeless, or worthless, and I deserve to live.
My wife however, has her own demons, demons that make her very insecure, very vulnerable, and very touchy. She does not even want to think about me having a gay friend, she even gets jealous of my straight friends, as if something might happen between us. If I even mention that I need to have a gay friend to talk to, someone that understands some of my emotions, someone that can relate to my pain, and someone that can reduce my pain, she covers her ears and starts saying the D-word (divorce).
Every so often I'll have a wave of emotions hit me, during those times until the wave subsides, I almost have to have a male friend I can talk to. My choices are, 1 a friend, 2 a psych ward 3 hurting my family beyond what I thought imaginable. I can't deal with going into a psych ward every so often for a couple of weeks, to several months just to keep from hurting my family. But that is what I've had to do in the past. I have enough issues with my physical health, and going inpatient like that only makes things worse, and harder to deal with. I makes my physical pain worse to be in an environment that is not set up to allow me to be comfortable, and a routine that forces me to push through the pain when I should be resting, I shouldn't have to do that to myself, it's not right.
However, my wife feels (and I don't blame her, considering everything her fears are not only understandable, but expected), that if I ever develop a relationship with a man, that I'll leave her. But see the thing is, over the last few years, there has been twice that I had a friendship with a gay man, one was one of my exes, we ran into each other and started talking, he would come by the house and me, him, and my wife would sit and talk for hours, she knew he was an ex, but did not care. Then there was the time that she introduced me to a gay guy that she had worked with. I would go by his house and talk for a while, she would go with me and the three of us sit and talk. She was ok with both of these. But, when I told her that I needed to find a gay friend that I could talk to she freaked out. If it happened by accident she was ok, if it was planned that was a different story. She doesn't know that I stopped talking to both of those guys because they both came on to me, I got up walked out and never looked back.
In her own insecurities she is terrified of losing me, so she threatens to leave me, doesn't make sense to me. I have tried to calm her fears and explain to her what the situation is, that only hurt her worse because now I'm telling her that she can't meet my emotional needs. That is after all the whole point of being bisexual, having needs that require both sexes in order to be whole, or complete. How can I convince her that I'm not trying to leave her, that this is not a reflection of her, that this is just something that I need so that I don't hurt constantly? I love her with all my heart, and there is no way I can live without her. I have told her that I would do whatever/give up whatever I had to so we could stay together. I meant that, I will give it up if I have to, but I also have to try to convince her that it's ok before I give up completely.I tell her that she's the reason I get out of bed everyday, and it's the truth, without her in my life,I would not continue to live through this pain I'm in for very long, and without her I never would have made it this far, she makes all my physical suffering worth it.
At the end of the day though, I'm still bisexual, I still have needs only a woman can meet, and needs only a man can meet. As a matter of fact, the only time I'm ever at peace, is in the arms of a man. I can not have peace any other way. Peace is something that is almost a requirement for all of us to experience from time to time, to rest and recharge and get ready for the next fight, I only get that from a man. I don't like that, I wish it was different, but it's not and I can't change it. I can choose whether or not to try and get that peace, but without it, I'm afraid I won't live much longer.
I said earlier that I could have just done it, and not told her the truth about how I met him, But I love her to much for that. I can only be honest with her. See, a friend of mines 70 year old mother, told me the other day that she could put me in touch with two or three gay guys, we could even meet at her house so that my wife didn't know what was going on. Then whenever/IF I ever convinced her that I'm not leaving her, that I don't love her any less, and she agrees to let me see someone, then I could just pretend that I had just met him. I can't tell you how much I wanted her to make those phone calls, it was like being a cocaine addict in a house made of cocaine, all you could ever want, just reach out and take it. But, I can't do that, I felt so guilty for even considering it, I told her before I did anything because I love her, and wanted her to know what I was doing. I could have met up with some guys, pretended to meet them some other way, and she would have never known the difference. But I love her too much for that. When I say I don't want these needs for a man, I don't want them, I'll give them to someone else very quick, but it looks like I'm stuck with them. I've tried for 42 years to get rid of them, and they are still here. I have to get a break from this emotional pain I'm in. I hurt so bad emotionally it physically hurts my chest. Any suggestions?
This is my suggestion, if you are certain it will hurt her...dont do it. I think its more of a man being able to provide you with something she cant... (your need for a man). Women are nurturers by nature and when we cant do that for our significant other or our children its painful. Im sure she wants to provide you with what you know you need from a man.
Whatever you choose to do be honest with her.
I'm doing the best I can to avoid anything that might hurt her, even refusing to do anything when she got tired of discussing it and just said "do whatever you want, I just don't want to know about it". I knew that she didn't mean it, so I continued to refuse to do anything, because just as a matter of principle I need her to agree because she is actually ok with it, not just to avoid talking about the subject. I'm not even trying to talk about having a secondary relationship, I'm just trying to talk to her, because I've told her that I think if she will work with me, and will talk with me, that I can continue to avoid doing a secondary relationship. Then a "carrot" is dangled in front of my face, and I can't touch it. As hungry as I am, I can't take the food handed to me. That's what my question is, why is it that when I"m fighting so hard to avoid that, why did this have to be put in front of me? Am I not hurting bad enough as it is? Is there someone somewhere laughing about torturing me by putting this in front of me?
I refuse to do anything without her approval, and I mean she actually has to be able to look me in the eye and honestly say that she doesn't care, that she is ok with it, not just saying ok, so she doesn't have to deal with it, I love her too much to do that. I will hurt before I hurt her. All I'm asking her for right now is to help me avoid anything that would hurt her. Then the one thing that is helping me keep my promise to her is taken away and replaced with major temptation. Why am I constantly hurt this way?
Now your question is more clear. I believe temptation is put in our way to see if we mean what we say about whatever confession we have made. Everytime I said I wasn't going back to a particular situation, the opportunity presented itself to go back. Most times I did because my mouth said I wouldn't but my heart hadn't caught up. Once my heart was caught up, when the temptation presented itself again then I could walk away. We are NOT tempted with something we don't have a desire for. Your desire to conquer this has to be greater than the temptation and I believe it is.
I wish there was an easy answer but honestly its not. Life is truly something else...sigh
You say you need a man to put his arms around you. I'm going to give you my honest opinion: it sounds to me that you are mostly gay. Am I correct in this assumption? But you love your wife on an emotional level that is very deep. And you are committed to staying with her.
I get that sexuality is on a spectrum. But if your desire for a man is so strong, it sounds to me that you are mostly gay, like maybe 80 to 90%. What do you think? This is just looking at what you wrote as an outsider. I feel that maybe your ideal partner would therefore have been a man. It seems like to held by a man is a *necessity* for you. But to be held by a woman, is not.
I was in love with a bisexual man (and still love him to this day) 7 years ago and he said he was 80% gay. Although I loved him, I had to let him go because even though he was 20% straight, it was just obvious that he worked best with a guy. (I am still struggling whether to contact him again and just try to be friends because the relationship meant so much to me.)
Whatever you do, do not go behind her back. She will know. Even if you don't tell her. It's a very complicated situation, I honestly can't see a clear solution. What exactly are you wanting from having gay friends? Is it just to have guys who you can connect with? Or are you still craving them to hold you?
I think as a bisexual man, having gay friends is a very, very healthy thing for you. I think maybe you could start out being friends with them and having your wife around and then go from there. If you are honest and don't cheat on her, there's nothing wrong with it. It's part of who you are, a very strong part, and it needs to be expressed.
Good luck x
Being someone in a relationship like this you probably get it more than anyone else. I mean IWA had some good thoughts, but you can actually understand. I am probably 60% gay, very close to being half, but just enough to tilt the scale. To answer your question "What exactly are you wanting from having gay friends?", the best answer I can give is just companionship, someone I can talk to about my feelings, about the things that excite me, that cause me pain and everything in between that a straight person just can't understand. There are so many reasons I'm not looking for a sexual relationship, and I don't need a romantic relationship I have my wife for that, and I'm 100% happy with that. Maybe to explain it better, I have made it 17 years into this relationship without having the first need, or thought, or desire for a man because I've had my step-sons. I know how that sounds, but the thing is, from the very beginning they have thought of me as their real Dad, to the point of telling their bio-father that I was their real Dad, he was just their sperm donor. The love I got from them, their desire to spend time with me, to try and be like me, their acceptance of me even though they knew I was bisexual, neither of them or their Mom ever had the first thought that something inappropriate would happen between me and them, they understood my love for them. They accepted me to the point that when I went to town with one or both of them, they would point out guys they thought I might like. They bought me birthday cards with almost nude men on the front, about three weeks into a new school year, at a new school, my youngest was extremely popular, and every afternoon there would be about 15-20 kids at my house as soon as school let out. Like I said about three weeks in, we were all sitting on the back patio and the conversation turned to gays, my son stood up, got everyone's attention and said, "my Dad is bisexual, if you have a problem with that you can leave now, no hard feelings, but if you start saying any crap about it, you'll have to answer to me." No one left, everyone came back, there were some conversations about it from time to time, most of the guys enjoyed teasing me, making jokes about wanting me sexually and such, stuff normal teenage boys do and say, nothing inappropriate considering. I told him later he didn't have to do that, and take that chance of being made fun of at school, he said he did need to tell them, if they were going to come to our house they needed to respect who I am, and that no one could make fun of him, because he loved me enough that he would not give them the power to make fun, they could only do that if cared what they thought.
Over the last 17 years I've had a lot of friendships with straight men, all of my best friends were straight, during that time I have also had two gay friends, that just happened I didn't go looking for it, and my wife never thought twice about me spending time with them. Each of their friendships was twice as fulfilling as 10 of my straight friends put together. I could have went out and joined some group or volunteered with some organization, and also made a gay friend on the side somehow, and told my wife that I met him through that organization or club or whatever, she would have never known the difference, and would not have been hurt at all. But, I would have known, and I can't lie to her, it's not that she can tell when I'm lying, I can't tell her a lie at all, it will not come out of my mouth. That's what I've tried to get her to understand, is that what I'm asking for means nothing, it no different than the other two gay friends I had that she did not care about, but I met them accidentally, actually she introduced me to one of them, she worked with him. I would go by his house during the day, he worked nights, by myself and would sit and talk for hours about nothing, she never had a bad thought about it. But, where I met those two accidentally, I am making a conciseness effort to find someone this time. I wanted her to know what I was doing, I can't do anything behind her back, I love her too much for that. Her thoughts just went to a bad place when I told her what I wanted to do, and she just can't get over them.
Also, the latest events in this, after we had another talk, she finally understood what I was saying, to a point anyway, and has told me that she is ok with me doing this, but I am not to tell her anything, she doesn't want to know anything. I have spoken with her twice since then, and told her to convince me she was actually ok, and not just saying she was. I feel certain she is telling the truth, so I have had my friend make a couple of phone calls, and explain to the guys exactly what I am looking for, just a friendship, just someone I can meet for coffee or lunch, or whatever and just talk for a while. Just to be able to express my gay side, let my straight side rest, just to feel that connection with another guy. As time goes by, I feel I can bring my wife around, let her see what I'm doing and ease her mind.
I know this has been a long (sometime rambling) response, but I wanted to give you all the information. Hopefully you can understand what I've had in the past, what I'm looking for now, and what I want for the future. Several years ago I was trying to buy my wife a convertible, she had previously had one and wanted another, I had some money saved up that she didn't know about, I had looked for a couple of months with no luck, something else came up, and I spent the money on that, not two hours later a salesman called, he had a car on the lot, he had put it behind the building for me. Right after I spent the money, same thing now, I can't have it so it's dropped in my lap. I guess though considering everything, I just got all the ingredients, just in reverse order, also my luck.
I was thinking about my own life actually and I think it would correspond to how I feel recently about really wanting to have friends who are lesbian/butch. For whatever reason, I always felt more comfortable around these girls (though I am 95% straight) because of what I mentioned before: they are more open-minded, they are ok with going outside traditional gender roles, they understand oppression. I am just not traditionally feminine and never will be...and I have never been able to have a friendship with a traditional, straight girl. Also, the open-mindedness thing definitely contributed to my attraction to my old male friend who was 80% gay. It's just an appealing attribute to me.
So, I think I'm saying I get it now. It's really just about being around someone like-minded, right? I am so glad your wife is ok with it. Maybe in time she will come around and be okay with hearing about your friendships. Good luck, I think this is a great move for you
I love this board because we may not all understand what each other is going through for whatever reason but we all respect each othere. I dont know what its like being bi-sexual because Im 100 straight. So I can only see and respond through eyes of a "straight woman". I hope my response wasnt offensive. I know I would want to be the only person my man needs in his life.
I understand better thank you going up. You articulated it very well
Going, did articulate very well my situation. Better than I could have I think. And last night she started a conversation about the situation, and I think I managed to explain things to her better than I have in the past. I held up our phones and said "see how these phones are the same thing, but the are also completely different? That's like my situation, men and women are the same thing, and they both do some of the same things, but they do it in completely different ways. Then there are some things my phone will do that yours doesn't, and yours will do things mine doesn't. Even though men and women offer some of the same emotional things, they offer them in completely different ways, and then l get some things from men that I don't get from women, and some things from women I don't from men. Now to be able to explain what all those things are, I can't, I don't understand how a cell phone works, and I don't understand all these emotional things, I just know how they feel."
a good book is called loving what is.
this work i have found way more helpful than cognitive behavioral work.
let me know and we can start with what she calls the judge your neighbor worksheet....and systematically go through the work in front of everyone.... it's been invaluable to me as a life coach.