I go to Coda every week. I really enjoy it. I think most victims of psychopaths/narcissists are probably codependent. Codependents are the type of people who put up with a lot of shit that other people wouldn't tolerate. We lack boundaries. We give people the benefit of the doubt when we shouldn't. We give too many chances. We doubt our own judgement. I'm definitely codependent and I've attracted tons of PD in my life, throughout my life.

Co-dependent here. Haha. Like you O'Toole, I have been perfectly groomed for this role. I think we are in "generation 3" in my family. I can see this with my parents and grandparents as well. I am trying desperately to change that and I know I will succeed! I think the only way to heal this is to take some very hard looks at yourself. I will never take responsibility for what my exes have done...that is on them. But I have to accept that there is something about my own behaviors that allow for this treatment. I am forging ahead with a mantra that I repeat often "It is not words, it is actions". This has been helping me to get over the self-doubts that run through my head. Once I repeat the to myself and then respond in a very mechanical way to it, that is when I can feel myself able to make good decisions. It does NOT come naturally. I am not sure it ever will. This is so common with survivors of PSN. I have not gone to group therapy but I am still in long-term personal therapy learning about self-esteem and boundaries. Things I should have learned loooong ago. I feel like a young child in many ways. But it is getting better. I just want you to know that I GET YOU o'toole!

These are the hard times. Try to accept that it's going to be a little hard - weirdly, accepting this makes it a little easier (if that makes sense).

Try to dive into anything else - work, hobbies, etc. If you are an artist/musician, get busy! Redecorate a room! Do ANYTHING to not sit and mope. I keep saying this, but. Zoloft helped me so much that I was actually really mad at myself for not taking it sooner. It's not a magic pill, but, it give you the edge to stop obsessing and get out of bed.

IT WILL GET BETTER. It won't happen over night. Some days will be bad. Have you read, "Codependent No More" by Melody Beattie? It is a life-changer.

Best wishes.

Hello OToole11

I too am trying to do the DNC. Failing miserably. I'm on day 11 and haven't succeeded with even one day. But it's not a total failure as I am speaking to him less and the feelings and intensity of feeling bad are getting less. Sometimes I actually think it's good I break it because he quickly reminds me of why I'm doing it in the first place. My husband isn't a psychopath but there's definitely something wrong with him.

Tolerance isn't always a bad thing you know. Typically it's a beautiful thing, but unfortunately the wrong people took advantage of it. I don't like to think of anyone here as a 'vicitim'. Anyone can change and get out of a bad situation. Victims are those who can not get out of a situation.

@Liveintruth I like your mantra 'It is not words, it is actions'. So very true. My husband has such a warm and caring voice and sometimes his words can be so entirely reassuring. I do have a soft spot for a man's gentle voice. But I have awoken to the actions, they have spoken the opposite of the words, and now I keep telling him I need to see action, to which I see NOTHING.

Also I have discovered as told by so many therapists that putting thoughts down on paper is helpful. Whenever I write things down in various formats , it screams back to me truth , that makes me almost embarrassed to myself as to how I could not see that.

But please do not be too hard on yourself. Probably the quality that most of us have here without putting labels of being codependent etc are simply very honest, candid, loving people.

If you would like to google 'human metrics' you can find out what your personality type is.
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@waiting wife, I disagree with your statement on nobody here being "victims". A lot of people here are victims. Psychopaths work hard to get their victims dependent and isolated so that they can't leave. Or, as in my case, even if they do leave, the psychopath won't let them go.

I was stalked for many years by a psychopath whom I only dated for a few months, a guy who turned out was a registered sex offender and a felon. Me leaving did not stop him. Me moving 3x did not stop him. Me buying a new vehicle did not stop him. Me changing jobs did not stop him. Me ignoring all his attempts at contact did not stop him. Him being convicted of stalking me did not stop him. A restraining order did not stop him. Years and years without any contact from me, after a very brief "relationship" and he was still obsessed and stalking me until he died. So I literally was a victim, as per your definition and the legal definition. And I know there are many others here with similar stories. I have to deal with the aftermath of the trauma this psychopath caused me, 7 yrs later, with PTSD that will last a lifetime.

@Agentsmith......

If so then why would not my husband be considered a victim? He claims he can not. He calls the affair 'a situation' at this point. He claims he is trying to handle it. We told the therapist we believe her to be a psychopath and he agrees at least she must have some disorder in the 'cluster B' group, and even the therapist tells my husband he can leave her. My husband doesn't see it like that. He doesn't see it so easily. He literally feels like her bitch.

My husband doesn't want to go through all of that what you describe and is convinced he can get rid of her slowly. I don't know. This is what he tells me and the therapist.

Your husband has the ability to go no contact. I went no contact with my psychopath and then he stalked me, bought a gun (1st degree felony), had a shrine of pics of me, drove by my house, called, texted, emailed, joined every meetup I was a member of, commented on every website I ever commented on, etc.

Your husband is choosing to maintain contact with her. He hasn't made any real attempt (that I can tell) to really detach from her. He can't decide what he wants so he keeps his options open. At this point, I don't know of any law she's broken to make him a victim.

Your husband can take the same steps I did. Break contact, tell her no more contact and any further contact will be reported to authorities. If she continues, he can follow up with getting a restraining order, as I did. He can block her number, email, etc. He can file charges against her, as I did. He can do everything I did to get away from mine. He's not choosing to do that.

His behavior reads more like a guy who wants his cake and to eat it too. Maybe he's going through some sort of midlife crisis?

Someone who wants his cake and to eat it too is someone who is exhibiting narcissistic traits. The grandiosity of feeling that the normal rules of marriage don't apply to him speaks volumes. I guess we interpret the traits of narcissism differently because I see it very clearly from what you have written here and in other posts waitingwife. But I also very much understand that there are stages in acceptance here and can certainly get where you are coming from right now.

@agentsmith I suppose if her breaking the law to make him a victim is what defines him a victim then no I suppose she hasn't other than destroying all of my family heirloom photographs I had displayed in my home.
But let me explain one thing here. We live in an Islamic country. There is no such thing as 'restraining orders', and filing charges. Affairs are punishable with jail and the consequences of getting caught in an affair are much greater in this country than in western countries. This definitely has an influence as to why he is handling things the way he is. I have no idea what her husband would do if he found out, but I somehow think it would not go over very well especially as my husband is playing with his wife right under his nose. I would think this would take a husband's reaction to another level. As far as breaking contact....this woman is a 'permanent' student of my husbands. He still has to deal with her. He is in denial , that he can't handle her, and he still believes he can get rid of her. That's what he tells me anyway. So now that you know this new information, would you change your opinion that he might at least think he can get rid of her without the consequences he fears?

@Liveintruth He actually isn't having his cake and eating it too. He pretty much left me a year ago, and was pretty much just having her. He just recently decided he wants to come back. He knows darn well I will not accept him back so long as he is with her. I'm not one of these women who can sit here and be a wife while my husband is having an affair. Thats' why he left because I gave him so much shit when I realized what was going on. Yes you're right,,,,he definitely cares little about any rules of marriage. But then obviously no one thinks about the rules of marriage when they are having an affair.

Acceptance......yes, sometimes its still so entirely surreal. After being with someone for 20 years and they did not seem like they would do something like this, and even give him that he's had and affair, the grandness of the behavior and the cruelty and things he has done is beyond unbelievable.

I agree with what LiveInTruth says, he is not following the rules of a marriage. Your husband reminds me quite a bit of a guy I recently dated. He was not a psychopath. He was OCPD and AvPD (you might want to look into those). He also did not believe that rules of a relationship applied to him. He was secretly talking to an ex all throughout our relationship, while lying to me, claiming he hated her, how bad of a person she was, and that he was not in contact with any exes. He would frequently abandon me, like it sounds like your husband has done, not talking to me for weeks or months on end. He did this at random. No fight, no breakup. In fact, this is how our relationship ended. We were in the middle of a texting conversation and I asked a simple question (could I pick him up) and have never heard back from him. This was his reaction nearly every time I asked a question, no matter how simple. He could not commit to an answer. He was an extreme commitment phobe. He could not commit to ANYTHING in his life. He had a lifelong pattern of abandoning every woman he had ever been with, and his 3 children (had no presence in their upbringing). He couldn't commit to a house, a car, a date, the answer to a simple question, nothing. He always had to have options open. He was an extremely dysfunctional, unstable person. Even for a personality disorder, he was extreme.

Thank you AgentSmith and Living in Truth for your support.

Right now, I'm dealing with the fact that I still have love in my heart for someone who's treated me so cruelly. The cognitive dissonance kicks in and my brain wants to reconcile what the hearts feels.

As I told my therapist, it would be so much easier if he was mean to me when we were face to face, but he never was. He just lied to my face, hoping that I would believe everything he said despite the inconsistencies and grandiose stories. Even after hearing from another woman, he still wanted me to believe that he wasn't seeing/living with someone else.

So I can't reconcile how he expected me to believe him when he actually shut me completely out of his life with the exception of daily emails where he'd profess his love and attraction along with seeing me maybe once or twice a month.

And things between us when we were actually together were never bad, even when I'd ask him questions. We never had arguments and he always addressed the future with me, but when it came down to action it just wasn't there.

Again, is he a NSP or not? From everything I've read, he is. It's just so hard to accept. It's only been 5 months since I've started believing that he is.

My hope is that CODA will give me strength.

@Agentsmith......wow! thanks for that! Both of those disorders seem highly likely! In fact the therapist mentioned in our couples session something about OCD or OCPD not sure which. He also mention it is seen a lot in this country. In that session my husband complained to the therapist that I don't do what he asks of me. He used an example and said just this " Here are a pair of sunglasses on the chair. If I ask a 'normal' person to move the sunglasses they will move them.' I was really taken aback with his choice word 'normal'. In my defense to the therapist I told him that my husband basically is so anal in his demands and requests that I just stopped trying and completely ignore his demands to save my sanity. I actually thought the therapist would have said something to the order of asking me to try harder, but instead immediately suggested OCPD/OCD.
My mother in law JUMPS to her husbands constant demands. His father is exactly the same.

As far as AvPD , that is also a very strong possibility. He has almost all of the traits but none of them to the extreme. He can function across the board with all of those traits but in an uncomfortable way. Some of the traits are spot on while others are low grade.

The trait in the OCPD that mentions they get angry when they lose control of a personal interaction is so him. Whenever I push him with truth, or show him I know something he's been trying to hide, he flies into a shouting rage and will run away.

Thanks so much for pointing these out to me. And if he is AvPD it would explain a lot how the gorgeous shiny sparkly psychopath lured him into her web and controls him. With his low self esteem for sure he was just incredibly shocked and ecstatic that he could get the attention of a woman like her.

@OToole11 I completely understand what you're going through. I'm going through very similar feelings.

May I ask how long you were in the relationship?

Sending hugs and strength your way )))

Five and a half years.