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peterg Tipatinnitus Lead [-]
Posts: 11212
(09/26/08 2:21 AM)
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Looks like the Australians are really into sound therapy,I wonder how much this will retail at.
http://www.tipatinnitus.com/

crestline #1 [-]
Posts: 157
(09/26/08 3:45 AM)
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My Recent Posts I think this is similiar to what UCI, Dr. Zeng is doing with low level frequency for tinnitus...Im posting what TIPATINNITUS has on its webpage: It seems to be drawing more researchers......

Therapeutic Prolonged Residual Inhibition Of Tinnitus Following An Acoustic Masking Signal: Preliminary Results And Possible Mechanisms. Dr Peter Winkler MB, BS, FRCS, FRACS, FAICD. Introduction. A series of digitally synthesised low frequency complex acoustic waveforms (TIPA) has been engineered to specifically produce prolonged residual inhibition (RI) of tinnitus. The sounds were developed during a 5 year search using trial and error on patient volunteers in the author's solo E.N.T. Specialist practice. Methods. TIPA is a series of 3 complex sounds played in sequence and lasting for 12 minutes. The patient listens to the sound using conventional high definition headphones. The sound is delivered to the patient at the minimum masking level and the same sound is used irrespective of tinnitus pitch. When the sound ceases the patient assesses the tinnitus loudness on a scale of 1 to 10 with 10 being the loudness of the tinnitus before the masking signal. The RI is recorded as the amount of reduction of tinnitus loudness. Thus RI of 100% means that the tinnitus is completely absent i.e. complete RI. This method is used as there is some confusion in the literature quantifying partial RI. The patient is then followed up to determine the duration of the RI. 20 patients with severe longstanding unremitting tinnitus, unresponsive to previous treatment were selected in order of presentation to the clinic for this trial. Results. It was decided that a minimum therapeutically useful response is 50% RI lasting more than 3 hours after a 12 minute signal exposure. This would be sufficient to provide sleep without tinnitus disturbance. Of the 20 patients, 11 experienced RI better than the minimum therapeutic level. The results were: 2 patients had 100 % RI for 24 hours; 3 patients had 100% for 12 hours; 1 had 100% for 4 hours; 2 had 70% for 4 hours and 1 each had 80% for 7 hours, 50% for 12 hours and 50% for 7 hours (Fig1). One of these patients demonstrated potentiation of RI by a second masker presentation while still experiencing 100% RI. This produced continuous 100% RI for 5 consecutive days using a daily 12 minute signal. Patients subsequently treated with repeated exposures to TIPA are demonstrating significant cumulation of effect. One very severe sufferer developed 60% RI for 6 consecutive days with no signal exposure, 2 months after commencing treatment. Discussion. Although Residual Inhibition is a common phenomenon it has remained a clinical curiosity due to its short action. There is no real understanding of its mechanism. The patient responses to TIPA, particularly the consistency of duration and potentiation by a second masker make it very tempting to postulate that a neurotransmitter is involved. There is also evidence of a synergistic action between differing wave forms and frequencies. However the duration of RI after TIPA is so long that a chemical mediator would need to be of a neurotrophic type rather than a conventional transmitter. Neurotrophic factors are considered to have actions involving functional plasticity of the nervous system. Delayed onset of RI in the acoustic neuroma patient below suggest that a trophic factor is travelling from cochlea to brain via the auditory nerve - a "cochlear derived neurotrophic factor." A 50 year old male with unilateral tinnitus and normal hearing was treated with TIPA. He experienced initial 30% RI for 5 hours and then suddenly developed 100% RI 24 hours later which lasted 7 hours. He produced the same result on a second test. This is extremely unusual as RI is invariably maximum immediately upon cessation of the masker. His routine MRI then found a 5mm ipsilateral intracanalicular acoustic neuroma which was treated expectantly. This delay of RI parallels the delay of ABR in acoustic neuroma and suggests the possibility of an inhibitory transmitter travelling along the auditory nerve. Conclusion. The concept that RI can be successfully prolonged by modifying the waveforms and frequencies of the acoustic masking signal is novel. The TIPA signal is now being used to treat tinnitus patients and preliminary results of repeated use are showing cumulative effect and increasing duration of reduction in tinnitus loudness. TIPA is a registered trademark and patent pending.



crestline #2 [-]
Posts: 158
(09/26/08 5:35 AM)
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My Recent Posts Didn't seem to say anything about patients with hearing loss and T ? I'll write them a note and ask since that is my problem..

crestline #3 [-]
Posts: 159
(09/26/08 6:30 AM)
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My Recent Posts I just received an email from Dr. Winkler and he said the sound therapy will work for people with tinnitus from hearing loss...

winterbridge #4 [-]
Posts: 82
(09/26/08 8:02 AM)
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My Recent Posts Wow! I applaude Dr. Winkler. Most ENT's don't have a clue. These sound therapy studies and treatments seems to be leading the way. Phaseout, Neuronomics and now Dr. Winkler and Dr. Zeng. I hope it won't be to far into the future where you don't have to travel 3000-5000 miles to get the latest and greatest treatment that has been proven to work. I wonder if there is anything for mulitple, shifting tones to include pulsatile on the horizon?

crestline #5 [-]
Posts: 160
(09/26/08 8:46 AM)
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My Recent Posts I just got another email from Dr. Winkler... He said Dr. Salvi at the University of Buffalo is trying his device... He said this all came about from the Sweden Tinnitus Conference in June this year... So it looks like a Top Notch Tinnitus researcher like Dr. Salvi is testing this device in clinical trials...Hope it all becomes GOOD NEWS for all of us........

reph #6 [-]
Posts: 15741
(09/26/08 9:52 AM)
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My Recent Posts Residual inhibition is real, and phase cancellation isn't. If these researchers have found a way to make RI last longer, that's great news.

Oz Greg #7 [-]
Posts: 13048
(09/29/08 1:14 AM)
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My Recent Posts Who would'nt be grateful for a 50% reduction or more in tinnitus by listening to music or sounds for 12 minutes. Sounds like a great nightcap or a method of obtaining some temporary relief when things are a bit hectic.

"The TIPAtinnitus SG Prototype is a hand held rechargeable battery powered player using insert music headphones. The device is in the process of obtaining regulatory approval and it is anticipated that it will be available in Australia in December 2008 and the EEC and USA in early 2009."

Mickw #8 [-]
Posts: 726
(09/29/08 9:54 AM)
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My Recent Posts More research is indeed great news. RI has been shown to be very benificial for some people. Lets hope this device works as it says on the packet. Certainly very eminent people are involved. Wonder if its anything like neuromics? Dont know but it seems to be worth a go. Any Aus friends fancy giving it a try? Wonder what it does to the brain? Maybe they have stumbled upon a mixture of frequencies that releases some chemical that inhibits noises we dislike? Seems real anyway.

Mick

fubar76 #9 [-]
Posts: 25
(09/29/08 1:43 PM)
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My Recent Posts sounds good, would love to try it myself. updates on this device would be great. any chance of making this topic stickied? thanks.
Last Edited By: fubar76 09/29/08 1:52 PM. Edited 1 times.
Rob x 2 #10 [-]
Posts: 553
(09/29/08 3:36 PM)
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My Recent Posts Very interesting, peter.

Not to get ahead of things, but here's something to consider. If the device makes it to market and genuinely helps people, high-end recording studio equipment could be used to examine the three waveforms which comprise the presentation. Identical waveforms could then be created in the studio, mastered like any CD in one's collection, copied to a CD, and provided to the community and boards like this one -- which would then have the option of reproducing the master copy and providing a CD with the same waveforms, presented in the same order, and for the same amount of time as the original presentation to members of the community for under $20.00. Combined with high definition headphones, which users would need to purchase if they didn't already have them, it wouldn't be necessary to spend an inordinate amount of money (e.g., TRT, Neuromonics, etc.) to get some relief.

rob x 2

crestline #11 [-]
Posts: 162
(09/29/08 4:01 PM)
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My Recent Posts Copy write laws would be the protection as with music,books, etc...Now enforcing it can be difficult as we know...

What I like about the TIPA is that there is no mention of counseling since the 3 waveforms cause RI of T. That shows that this process actually is working on the auditory system without having to brainwash the subject into making them believe that their T is better with other treatments and a lot of doctor visits .

Rob x 2 #12 [-]
Posts: 556
(09/29/08 5:54 PM)
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My Recent Posts crestline,

There are no copyright laws with respect to replicating a waveform.

The counseling aspect of therapeutic approaches like TRT and cognitive behavioral therapy are the opposite of brainwashing. The reason the directive counseling aspect of TRT is helpful to a number of patients and the notion of uncovering cognitive distortions is helpful to those who learn about CBT techniques with respect to tinnitus is because they are genuinely realistic and informative. One could argue that the some of the things a tinnitus patient thinks when he or she is overwhelmed by tinnitus is a sort of self-brainwashing. This is also the case with some things that hyperacusic patients think.

rob x 2
Last Edited By: Rob x 2 09/29/08 6:17 PM. Edited 2 times.
Oz Greg #13 [-]
Posts: 13049
(09/29/08 11:35 PM)
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My Recent Posts I'm sure(well I hope) that a poster from dailystrength would'nt mind me including her post here.
greg

http://dailystrength.org/...rum/4847573-tipa/lastpage


Well I had the test and my 1st treatment today. I went in there this morning and my ears were roaring. As the T is very noise reactive I made sure that the T was bad by having the vacuum cleaner, 2 TV's and a radio all going for about an hour before I went out. Then I went to the shopping centre and sat in the noisiest spot for about 1/2 an hour. I really wanted the T to be as bad as it gets so that I could judge better the effects of the treatment.

There were 4 noises in total, it says 3 on the website, but I got 4. The doctor increased each noise until I could not hear, or hear very very faintly my noise. The noises are all roaring kinds of noises, none of them replicated my noise at all. They change automatically. After 12 mins the headphones came off and the Dr asked me if my noise was still there. I said yes, he then asked if it was in both ears, as it always is, It wasn't it was only in the left ear, He then asked me to put the noise now on a scale of one to ten, given that it was a 10 before I started the treatment. I can honestly say it was 2 to 3.

So, the doctor was really happy he said I was a 'responder' and that I will have success with this treatment. I admit, I cried, I could have kissed the doc I was so happy.

It is now 2 hours since the treatment and my noise is still the same as straight after. I have to call the doctor in the morning from the airport ( I'm off to New Zealand for a month ) and let him know how long the residual effects last.

The device to deliver the noise will be available around December, he couldn't give me a cost as it hasn't all been worked out yet. It will be what it will be, it worked for me this morning and I'll be buying it. The site is up and http://dailystrength.org/treatments/Running')" href="http://dailystrength.org/treatments/Running">running now, I put a link in my original post, go and have a look.

tinkerbell comment #14 [-]
Posts: 1832
(09/30/08 12:13 AM)
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My Recent Posts Hi
Will this help those of us that have almost total hearing loss one ear and it is reactive to noise.
God bless
Tink

Oz Greg #15 [-]
Posts: 13050
(09/30/08 12:36 AM)
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My Recent Posts Hi
Will this help those of us that have almost total hearing loss one ear and it is reactive to noise.
God bless
Tink

Hi Tink
I know about as much as you do at this point but I'm sure that we will all learn more very shortly.

greg

Micky ten #16 [-]
Posts: 30
(09/30/08 2:18 AM)
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My Recent Posts Quote in part from the daily strengh forum posted by Greg ..
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I made sure that the T was bad by having the vacuum cleaner, 2 TV's and a radio all going for about an hour before I went out. Then I went to the shopping centre and sat in the noisiest spot for about 1/2 an hour. I really wanted the T to be as bad as it gets so that I could judge better the effects of the treatment.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
is it me or does any one else here find this hard to take on board .. i mean could you really be bothered to subject your self to this torture before such an important appointment ..maybe iv'e become hyper skeptical over the years and paranoid ...Greg many thanks for the link, only time will tell if this new treatment lives up to expectations, ..Micky..


crestline #17 [-]
Posts: 163
(09/30/08 3:56 AM)
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My Recent Posts Tipatinnitus is patent pending and maybe not copy write for the 3 waveforms....
Last Edited By: crestline 09/30/08 4:07 AM. Edited 2 times.
Oz Greg #18 [-]
Posts: 13057
(09/30/08 3:18 PM)
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My Recent Posts Micky
I found that hard to believe? Sounds like she has reactive tinnitus. All the same, why bother doing that. You could conclude that the results could/would be flawed if somebody had to ramp up there tinnitus before being treated because you would'nt know if any changes were a result of the tinnitus settling back down to what it normally is or the treatment.
greg

Rob x 2 #19 [-]
Posts: 567
(09/30/08 3:39 PM)
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My Recent Posts Micky, Greg -- I know what you're saying, and yet I think I understand what may have been going on in the poster's mind. She probably wanted to test the product with her tinnitus at its worst in terms of how impacted she felt by it. Otherwise, perhaps she would have felt the product couldn't help her when her tinnitus was really intrusive. I wouldn't have done it that way myself, and would have just tried it at whatever level my tinnitus happened to be at the time, but we're all different. Greg, your point is interesting too. How could she determine if the product worked or if the tinnitus settled down because it returned to baseline after she purposely exposed it to things that caused it to wind up.

rob x 2.1

winterbridge #20 [-]
Posts: 87
(10/01/08 3:40 AM)
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Well TRT costs $3000-$5000 with maskers, Neuromonics around $5000. Not sure about Phase Out. Anyone willing to take a guess what Tipa will cost? If the guy is greedy and wants to get rich at the expense of the suffering I'd say $5000 with a 30 day money back guarantee. If he is a compassionate healer I'd say $1000 with a 30 day money back guarantee. If he is a saint I'd say $500.

What do you want to bet it will made in China for pennys on the dollar?


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