The Den Community Group
Pull up a chair and put your feet up. Lie down if necessary! :)
Just tossing labels around is not helpful. She is narcissistic. He is selfish. They tell lies. None of that is helpful. All of these situations are highly individualistic. In other words, generalizations and non-specifics just don't apply in many cases. In some cases, it is entirely appropriate to distance one's self from parents who are unable to treat their adult child as an adult. You have to get beyond the label of "abusive," and consider if the parent is consistently disrespectful of the adult child. This can take the form of constant criticism, negative comments, disclosing confidences, emotional extortion, manipulation, lying, cheating, stealing, etc. And actual threats to physical safety are always unacceptable.
On the other hand, some adult children are just grown-up spoiled brats who haven't learned to work hard and accept responsibility for themselves. A parent's frustration with these shortcomings in their adult children can cause the parents to become overly critical or meddlesome in their children's lives. Adult children should never distance themselves from their parents for minor or non-recurrent "transgressions." It is an extremely serious matter to estrange one's self from parents, and should only be done in extreme cases. I recently estranged myself from my 80 year old mother and everyone in the family is upset at me for "being mean" to my 80 year old mother. The specific thing that I felt justified this action is that she has treated me as the "stepchild" all my life. I was always not invited or disinvited to family events and family members later shared constant negative comments she says about me. This past summer she invited everyone in the family, kids, nieces, nephews, uncles, aunts, friends, neighbors, etc., except for me and my children. That was the last straw for me. Until you know the specifics, you can't really assess whether the estrangement is a reasonable action or not.
On the other hand, some adult children are just grown-up spoiled brats who haven't learned to work hard and accept responsibility for themselves. A parent's frustration with these shortcomings in their adult children can cause the parents to become overly critical or meddlesome in their children's lives. Adult children should never distance themselves from their parents for minor or non-recurrent "transgressions." It is an extremely serious matter to estrange one's self from parents, and should only be done in extreme cases. I recently estranged myself from my 80 year old mother and everyone in the family is upset at me for "being mean" to my 80 year old mother. The specific thing that I felt justified this action is that she has treated me as the "stepchild" all my life. I was always not invited or disinvited to family events and family members later shared constant negative comments she says about me. This past summer she invited everyone in the family, kids, nieces, nephews, uncles, aunts, friends, neighbors, etc., except for me and my children. That was the last straw for me. Until you know the specifics, you can't really assess whether the estrangement is a reasonable action or not.
Before my alcoholic father passed many years ago I had made the decision to "estrange" from him for my own self preservation. He had sexually abused me as a child and NEVER took responsibility for it. He never admitted it to anyone or apologized. My own children were quite young and they were NEVER allowed to be alone with him and his second wife.
I had always treated him respectfully but after he suffered a massive heart attack and I moved heaven and stars to be with him at the hospital and got kicked in the teeth for it, I was DONE. He had to have quadruple by-pass surgery and was on a ton of high-powered drugs. Because of the heart attack and drugs he became the most evil, angry human being alive. His wife even called me crying on the telephone about how mean he was to her grandson.
He had always had a mean streak but after that he became unbearable so I stayed away and I kept my children away FOR OUR PROTECTION. He survived another 6-8 years (I forget exactly) but I refused any contact with him.
This may sound callous, but when he passed away I was relieved. Not only for myself and my brothers, but mostly because his miserable life of suffering was over. I have not had one ounce of regret because I had finally figured out that I had to protect myself and my family from this evil man and his influence.
I spent way too many years grieving for the dad I always wanted but never had and the damage he did to me, my mom and my older brothers. So....I truly understand your reasons for "estranging" from you mom. I say "more power to you."
Until or unless you've suffered intentional abuse of any kind from a parent no one has the right to judge your motives. **HUGS**
I am seeing a trend here perhaps ??/
AllK
Everyone has parental issue's, even when we had/have great parents.....an adult grows up, becomes their own person, inlcuding deciding the kind of person they want to be! To lead the rest of our lives as their RESPONSIBILITY instead of our own is just a failure to do the hard work of molding ourselves into a shape we can be comfortable and happy in.
Some of you know my history, most won't, but let's leave it where it belongs....in the past. But I have the expertise of personal experience, and therefore the earned right to preach to the choir on abuses.
The Truth is simple! What was done to us is not US.....it's someone elses burden to carry. Shame and Blame are both horrid shadows to live under.
The PAST IS GONE....and we survived it....BE PROUD of YOURSELF for having done so.....and move on! Staying stuck as the Victim will never take you where you want to go.
I love my parents, and sometimes cringe when their ring tone plays on my phone.....but that's life! Thank Goodness for Voicemail! LOL Healthy Boundaires are so much easier to maintain with an I-Phone!
I suppose it was emotional estrangement that I felt. When she died it hit me badly...there was so much I had wanted to ask her, not least why she had treated me as badly as she had. I realise today I must have blocked out so much because when I visited my brother, who lives overseas, some years ago, he asked me if I remember the time she nearly killed me....he told me he had to drag her off me. I remember the beatings, there were many, but I don't recall that particular incident.
I did find out that when my sister and I were born, that I stayed in hospital for some time after whilst my sister went home with my mother. When finally, I was taken home, I apparently cried a great deal and was not the perfectly behaved baby my sister was....my childhood was miserable beyond belief and it was such a relief when I finally left home. Having spoken to someone about this (this doctor asked for details pertaining to my birth) he surmised that my mother simply didn't bond with me. Up until I left home I felt such a need for her to love me but afterwards when this might have been possible it was too little, too late. I often wonder if we might have resolved things had she lived or would it have reverted back to what it was. She did support me when I divorced Having said all this I do know that she would have supported me in this estrangement from my ED....The irony is that she always told me that I was a good mother, despite my mothering skills being the total opposite to hers. Oddly I do miss her and that confuses me a great deal....I so wish we had been able to resolve all this.......having unresolved issues sucks. You are certainly not alone in what you are feeling and going through.
We base our experiences on our perspective. But this thread make me consider the "other" perspective. I'm not condoning any particular behavior, but considering where it may have come from... especially from our parent's perspective. What was their bringing up like? Were they abused? Were they spoiled? What was the circumstances of their life? Where did THEIR perspective come from?
So much of a parent's life (ours or our parent's) is unknown to the children. I used to think to myself that I WILL BE DIFFERENT from my parents. I was raised with all the things a child needs... except affection. No hugs or kisses or "I love yous". It was more like I was allowed to live with this family. I had birthday parties and friends over to play. It was all quite "normal" except for the feelings that should have gone along with it all. For those of you who do not know... I was adopted at birth and an only child. I always felt like their "adopted daughter". My dad was a business man and my mother a stay at home mom. They were married 20 years BEFORE they adopted me. (not sure about the rest of you but if I was married 20 years and didn't have any kids... I sure would not have gone out and gotten one at that stage of the game!)
When my dad said 'NO". That was that. No explanation or anything. It was forbidden to ask. I remember growing up thinking that I will explain why to my kids. I will hug them and tell them I love them often. I did all that and it still turned out badly.
I think EVERY person tries (to some degree) with each generation to create a new and intendedly better perspective for their own family. (I'm going to so (something) different in raising my kids than what was done to me). It seems to me that this phenomenon repeats itself with every generation. Unfortunately, life, or raising kids does not come with a success handbook. No one does it perfectly.
There are all kinds of people in the world. Some are just... not... good. I still believe most are or at the very least have good intentions. Trying to figure out the "whys" or the "hows" of it all simply can't be done. We have to accept that people are who they are and then, as adults, decide if we want to have them in our presence.... or not. Sadly this applies to families as well.
Television has opened up a fantasy world to the masses and when real life people watch this stuff... we feel (wrongly) that we were/are deprived of a loving, caring, romantic, blissful relationship. Life simply doesn't work that way. (Didn't you ever wonder why any of those soap opera characters never had a job? or that your date didn't go the way the one on TV did? Or... you didn't grow up in a family exactly like the Waltons?? (Side note: RIP Ralph Waite (John Walton)).
As adults, we have the right... and the responsibility.... to protect ourselves from negative people. The same applies when it comes to ADULT family.... from either perspective. Because we are all different, it WILL NEVER make sense to the "other side". It only NEEDS to make sense to the person himself/herself. THIS is a crucial point we all have to get.
For our own mental health, we need to surround ourselves with people that are positive in our lives. People who support us and are there for us. People who respect us. We need to remember that it is perfectly okay for us to formulate this in our lives.
Maybe we all have to just get on with life and stop trying to figure it all out?? I read somewhere... "Don't look back... you're not going that way". Trust the choices you make and make your life the best it can be for your future.
That's just my 87 cents on the subject.... IMHO.
Armymom...in my opinion...nothing we all look at our discuss or think about is useless and I quote you..."Parent Issues.......HUGE CAN OF USELESS WORMS!!! "
We are cumlative pieces of our experiences or issues be those good or bad..in reviewing issues or experiences with other people here on these forums we can sort things out...get new perspectives and opinions and I personally have learned many many things from you Army and the Groups. therefore I strongly disagree that revisiting things or issues is a useless can of worms...if we dont look or change or understand then we are doomed to repeat history....no knowledge learned from another even our parents and our situation is "useless" as...ALL KNOWLEDGE IS POWER...The knowledge is not about right or wrong or assigning blame...it is simply gathering knowledge which might or might not be useful...if not today..if not in a particular situation then perhaps that knowledge will come in useful somewhere down the road.
Barb...you said it so well...perspective...filters in which we view things like life. It would be helpful to all beings to have some kind of reference book about our parents history and thoughts and of course it would be helpful if we understand our own history and thoughts...it would be a sort of road map as to why or how things occur. In past civilizations many stories were told to the younger by the elders...always with some intent...ancestry was passed along the same way. We do not do this very much at all in western or current society...its all fantasy books and media of all kinds...never histories or reality.
I do know for sure "my filters" have been radically changed over "estrangement" some of it good some of it bad...some of it just middle of the road..and each and everyone of you have helped me understand more of myself...the world...and our situations and I thank you for without the stories...the issues...the thoughts...no matter how useless they might appear to someone else.
AllK
For me, and again this is my personal interpretation, the can of worms from the past about Issues when I was helpless and entirely dependant on my Parents is like Pandora's Box....how can I trust what I find there? The issues and memories there are all based on a childs perspective and ability to understand. Unless I were still struggling as a helpless child...these "worms" aren't going to help much.
To carry around that can the rest of my life is a huge waste of effort and energies, resources I need to keep moving forward. After all, what use is a worm from the past when I am fishing in the future? I most definitely have no desire to catch any of the past abuses....so for ME.....would have and could haves and should haves are nothing more that an CAN OF USELESS WORMS! They will never change, they are over and done, and today is infinitely more important than yesterday.
Again, Sincere Apologies for any offenses, none were intended.....and I hope this further detail from MY PERSPECTIVE will clear away some of the missed communication.
Hugs and Respect to all here!
I concur...I think I have "lost it" also...I harbor no hate or animosity...I am just tired of the hamster wheel
AllK
What was is gone.
If anything is to be a future relationship, it will be a new relationship because everyone in the equation has changed in one way or another.
If there is to be no future relationship, then each person's future is a new one but separate and apart from each other.
Ditto BJ.....Epic, you are not wrong! I highly recommend reading one of Mama Bears Post from the Vault...."This is a Gain, not a Loss".
Allk....I can totally relate to the "hamster wheel"....what a relief to get off!