The Den Community Group
Pull up a chair and put your feet up. Lie down if necessary! :)
This post was inspired by Greg's support and understanding that it might help to see different aspects of estrangement
Long promised update
Posted on 01/15/13, 02:43 am in Parents Who Walk Away
Several weeks ago I have promised that I will write about the meeting I was going to have with our son. We met for coffee a week before Christmas. This meeting deeply affected me and it took some time for me to live through all my emotions to be able to write about it. I do not write often, so I will remind our story.
We were delighted when our only son of 32 met his current girlfriend, now fiance a little more than two years ago. The irony is that when we met her two times at our place, we liked her very much and thought we will now have a daughter. Later two events happened. We were completely ignored (and I mean literally ignored) when we came to see them being invited for Sunday lunch. Second time when asked to start over again, my husband received Christmas gift which we both found rude, very offensive and totally inappropriate. We both separately have spoken to our son and explained how hurt we were and that we can't accept being treated like that in future. He agreed with us and promised that an apology will follow. Promises were made, but nothing followed and very fast our son's position changed. It became very difficult for me to have any communication with him, and to preserve my health and sanity I asked him to stop any contact with us.
A year passed and last Christmas we received a letter from his GF, where the second phrase was that we did not do the right thing by each other. The letter caused even more resolve not to resume any contact. I can't say that there was no communication at all. We both formally acknowledged birthdays and he sent texts for Mother's Days.
Around Easter I was going to be in the city and I decided to call him and ask if he wanted to have a coffee. He was pleased and wanted to see me (that's what he said), but was busy and asked for another time. Several weeks after that on another occasion I gave him a week notice, he again wanted to see me, but said that he is flying interstate, but will try to cancel the trip. He could not do it and cancelled our coffee instead. In September I called to say happy birthday and he asked when we are going to meet. I answered that it is up to him if he wants to talk. He used the birthday of my late mother in November (it was 20 years since she died, we always made this day special) to send me an email and we organised a meeting.
At the time of our meeting I already dealt with all emotional turmoil of estrangement. I never felt anger and I was not even upset anymore. I knew the place I was. I lived through all whys, guilt, what I have missed raising him, all difficult emotions that were killing me. I knew I could talk and discuss issues in calm and more intellectual manner.
So I was ready to meet him and not cry or talk about me. I wanted to hear what he has to say. I came to listen.
He has nothing to say. I am glad he was truthful and said that he still does not understand what was wrong in their actions. He said that he thought that we will take baby steps to resume relationship. I said that there is nothing to resume. Our very close family relationship was not there any more. He treated us in a way we can't accept, what we had before was destroyed. The only way forward is to create new relationship between adults by taking responsibility for the wrongs. It is not even the initial events that matter, they are insignificant in themselves. It is what unfolded with lies and his total lack of interest to hear us. Not at any stage we interfered with his life or his choices, gave any advice about their life. I am actually glad that we had no say in anything in two years, whatever happened, we are not to be blamed. His life now is completely his own choices. I did not expect any progress and it did not happen. But it was not that upset me. I am OK with estrangement. I live my life and wish him to have a good and happy life. But I am not sure that his choices will bring him good healthy life and make him happy.
He did not look happy, if anything he looked sad at times, may be tired. He always took care of his appearances, it was not there any more, he put a lot of weight. Two years ago he was in perfect shape, taking care of himself and making all the healthy choices. It was very nice to see. He had some positive news, his work was going very well and he made progress with some overdue issues. He did not have his former vigor and the most excited he was when he was talking about the dogs greeting him when he comes home.
I do not care that much about estrangement anymore. I just wish him a good life, but I do not see that his fiance has his best or even her best interest at heart. Their life together (as I see it, and I hope I am wrong), their choices are not good in the long term. I see it such a waste. I hope she does not destroy anything good that was in him.
I am glad that I learned my lessons, too. I am not responsible for his choices, he has to live his own life with the consequences of his own actions. He will pay the price with his health, relationships, may be work. It is very difficult to watch and understand that I can't do anything to change it. I told him that I love him very much and I wish all the best for both of them, but I can't resume relationship when wrongs are not acknowledged and responsibilities not taken. I said that I am his mother and he will be my son forever and I am sure if he truly wants us in his life he will find a way to achieve it. I also told him, that in my opinion he let himself go and asked him did he remember what he told me once, that he will never ever be overweight again. He just looked at me with sad eyes. I regret saying that. I knew it upset him very much. But my husband said, that it was my duty as a mother to tell him everything as it is, make him face the truth, who else in his circle will be honest with him. He is right, but I still felt terrible.
The best I can do now is to hope may be he will learn some hard lessons in life and will be brave enough and strong enough to make better choices. I am not talking about estrangement, it is not that important to me, I am talking about his future.
I will appreciate any opinion, any take and any point of view. I am here to learn.
Sorry for being so long.
Kutani
Long promised update
Posted on 01/15/13, 02:43 am in Parents Who Walk Away
Several weeks ago I have promised that I will write about the meeting I was going to have with our son. We met for coffee a week before Christmas. This meeting deeply affected me and it took some time for me to live through all my emotions to be able to write about it. I do not write often, so I will remind our story.
We were delighted when our only son of 32 met his current girlfriend, now fiance a little more than two years ago. The irony is that when we met her two times at our place, we liked her very much and thought we will now have a daughter. Later two events happened. We were completely ignored (and I mean literally ignored) when we came to see them being invited for Sunday lunch. Second time when asked to start over again, my husband received Christmas gift which we both found rude, very offensive and totally inappropriate. We both separately have spoken to our son and explained how hurt we were and that we can't accept being treated like that in future. He agreed with us and promised that an apology will follow. Promises were made, but nothing followed and very fast our son's position changed. It became very difficult for me to have any communication with him, and to preserve my health and sanity I asked him to stop any contact with us.
A year passed and last Christmas we received a letter from his GF, where the second phrase was that we did not do the right thing by each other. The letter caused even more resolve not to resume any contact. I can't say that there was no communication at all. We both formally acknowledged birthdays and he sent texts for Mother's Days.
Around Easter I was going to be in the city and I decided to call him and ask if he wanted to have a coffee. He was pleased and wanted to see me (that's what he said), but was busy and asked for another time. Several weeks after that on another occasion I gave him a week notice, he again wanted to see me, but said that he is flying interstate, but will try to cancel the trip. He could not do it and cancelled our coffee instead. In September I called to say happy birthday and he asked when we are going to meet. I answered that it is up to him if he wants to talk. He used the birthday of my late mother in November (it was 20 years since she died, we always made this day special) to send me an email and we organised a meeting.
At the time of our meeting I already dealt with all emotional turmoil of estrangement. I never felt anger and I was not even upset anymore. I knew the place I was. I lived through all whys, guilt, what I have missed raising him, all difficult emotions that were killing me. I knew I could talk and discuss issues in calm and more intellectual manner.
So I was ready to meet him and not cry or talk about me. I wanted to hear what he has to say. I came to listen.
He has nothing to say. I am glad he was truthful and said that he still does not understand what was wrong in their actions. He said that he thought that we will take baby steps to resume relationship. I said that there is nothing to resume. Our very close family relationship was not there any more. He treated us in a way we can't accept, what we had before was destroyed. The only way forward is to create new relationship between adults by taking responsibility for the wrongs. It is not even the initial events that matter, they are insignificant in themselves. It is what unfolded with lies and his total lack of interest to hear us. Not at any stage we interfered with his life or his choices, gave any advice about their life. I am actually glad that we had no say in anything in two years, whatever happened, we are not to be blamed. His life now is completely his own choices. I did not expect any progress and it did not happen. But it was not that upset me. I am OK with estrangement. I live my life and wish him to have a good and happy life. But I am not sure that his choices will bring him good healthy life and make him happy.
He did not look happy, if anything he looked sad at times, may be tired. He always took care of his appearances, it was not there any more, he put a lot of weight. Two years ago he was in perfect shape, taking care of himself and making all the healthy choices. It was very nice to see. He had some positive news, his work was going very well and he made progress with some overdue issues. He did not have his former vigor and the most excited he was when he was talking about the dogs greeting him when he comes home.
I do not care that much about estrangement anymore. I just wish him a good life, but I do not see that his fiance has his best or even her best interest at heart. Their life together (as I see it, and I hope I am wrong), their choices are not good in the long term. I see it such a waste. I hope she does not destroy anything good that was in him.
I am glad that I learned my lessons, too. I am not responsible for his choices, he has to live his own life with the consequences of his own actions. He will pay the price with his health, relationships, may be work. It is very difficult to watch and understand that I can't do anything to change it. I told him that I love him very much and I wish all the best for both of them, but I can't resume relationship when wrongs are not acknowledged and responsibilities not taken. I said that I am his mother and he will be my son forever and I am sure if he truly wants us in his life he will find a way to achieve it. I also told him, that in my opinion he let himself go and asked him did he remember what he told me once, that he will never ever be overweight again. He just looked at me with sad eyes. I regret saying that. I knew it upset him very much. But my husband said, that it was my duty as a mother to tell him everything as it is, make him face the truth, who else in his circle will be honest with him. He is right, but I still felt terrible.
The best I can do now is to hope may be he will learn some hard lessons in life and will be brave enough and strong enough to make better choices. I am not talking about estrangement, it is not that important to me, I am talking about his future.
I will appreciate any opinion, any take and any point of view. I am here to learn.
Sorry for being so long.
Kutani
Firstly let me say how impressed I am with your response to this difficult situation, you have handled it sensitively and decisively. It is so easy for negative emotions to propel us into actions that inflame a given situation but instead IMHO you have handled this situation with great dignity.
One of the paragraphs that stood out for me was this:
“He did not look happy, if anything he looked sad at times, may be tired. He always took care of his appearances, it was not there any more, he put a lot of weight. Two years ago he was in perfect shape, taking care of himself and making all the healthy choices. It was very nice to see. He had some positive news, his work was going very well and he made progress with some overdue issues. He did not have his former vigor and the most excited he was when he was talking about the dogs greeting him when he comes home.”
My take on this is….. he did not look happy because he is clearly unhappy and I suspect deep down he is more than aware that things, for whatever reason, are not great with his GF and that she is making him unhappy and his relationship with you difficult to say the least. I can only hope that he will ‘see the light’ at some point in the not too distant future and realize the wisdom of your words.
Well done for handling this so well.. ((((((((((((((((hugs)))))))))))))))))
It sounds like, in your case, your son is not blaming you for his life going downhill or for the estrangement. Could I be wrong about that? If estrangement is to be, then at least you don't have your child spewing hateful thing to and at you. It sounds like your son still loves you but has placed himself in a difficult position by staying with the GF who obviously, has great influence over him.
Hopefully, he will awaken and set out to put his life back on a good path which will include reconciliation with you. In the meantime, you have been able to accept things as they are and go on with living your life. This is an accomplishment to be proud of. You have handled this with dignity, maturity and love. You should be proud.
(Am I the only one that has put on weight lately and is tired from my job a lot? )
I still love my job and my life.
My ex travels and it's getting to be a pain more and more in his life. He's also started to have to take valium when he flys and his doctor says that it's not uncommon as people age to have to do that if they travel for work. Still my ex is good at and likes his job....
In any case, I hope that things improve in your relationship with him, and wish you both the best.
Thanks so very much for sharing your clear and concise journey. I will be saving your post to my own personal archives, and will use it as talking points if ever that opportunity arises; I don't believe it will.
What struck me most was your ADULT way of handling this. Reminds me of how our parents' generation (well, some of them) lived their lives, expecting nothing less than respect. And altho my parents never had to deal with estrangement, I like to think they would have handled it just like you did, with grace and heads held high.
My favorite part of your post is this: "I said that there is nothing to resume. Our very close family relationship was not there any more. He treated us in a way we can't accept, what we had before was destroyed. The only way forward is to create new relationship between adults by taking responsibility for the wrongs."
I also will remember this sentence: "I said that I am his mother and he will be my son forever and I am sure if he truly wants us in his life he will find a way to achieve it." Now that puts the onus right where it belongs - on the perpetrator. This begging, contacting, willing to settle for crumbs that parents sometimes choose is just wrong on every single level.
My hat's off to you. Thank you again.
The calm and direct manner, in which you are dealing with your son, truly is an inspiration.
What hit me was what you said about your son being responsible for his own decisions. And that it is so hard to stand by and not be able to do anything about what he is doing to himself. I so identify with that.
For me - watching my son deteriorate - weight gain, blank stare in his eyes, sadness in his demeanor, ignoring what he used to love doing because his wife feels left out, . extreme anxiety, etc., etc. - and not being able to even talk to him, the way we used to talk about what is bothering him - is so hard to deal with.
Thank you so much for your post - it helped me identify what is in my heart. I think the mother/father in us who wants to protect our children, from making mistakes in their lives - and not being able to - is one of the hardest issues to resolve in our situations.
Thank you again -
I agree, Patti, that you can be overweight, and with not so healthy habits, and smoking and drinking and many other not so glamorous things and be happy and having a good life and enjoy it. It, however becomes different, when you know yourself that it is a result of self destructive pattern. Our son was in good shape in his 20s. He started to put weight and became overweight. He identified it as his problem himself. It surprised me when he made a decision to make a drastic change. He changed his daily routine, started eat well, and eventually run half marathon. He was beaming with satisfaction, was smiling not stop, everything went his way, life was smiling at him. Then he met his GF, moved in on the third day and completely changed his ways. It is like his brain was switched off. I am actually not sure that he is not happy. May be he is, and it is fine with me. I would prefer him to be happy the way he wants and be content with his life and not be a part of it. I already survived that and I can live with that. But he has hypertension now, and he is only 34. He was sick several times this year and as I understood it was more than a flu. What next? Diabetes, liver problems? That what worries me, not his weight as such.
You right Barbara, I am my own person. I had a lot of practice to stand alone against the crowd and be pressured by it. It is my experiences in my previous life in totalitarian society which strengthen my resolve. You either survive with your soul intact and become strong and independent or die inside. I have no problems to be alone against all and stand my ground. It is not even uncomfortable for me. Not a single person supported us in our actions. It made no difference to us. I will not take credit for that. It is just who I am. It was natural to me, heartbreaking, but natural.
But I will take credit for standing still and doing nothing and watch as your only child makes mistakes that will harm him. I agree with you Linda, it is the hardest thing to do. It takes all the strength I have to manage that.
Charlotte I can easily get carried away in conversation. It took a lot of time and training to plan conversation like that. Repeat it over and over again in my head and try to remember everything I wanted to say. I have lived all my emotions through in a year and a half, I just was ready. It does not come naturally to me. And I have learned so many things from all of you. I am sure, my understanding of estrangement would not be even near that it is now without all the reading and thinking about it very hard.
Thank you all again.
Kutani
It sounds to me as if he misses you and wants a relationship with you but yet at the same time maybe he is not quite ready to give this girl up. Maybe he is in a rut and really wants to make some positive changes to his life....time will tell.
It does take every fiber of our being to sit and watch and feel totally helpless while they make their mistakes and I applaud you for being so strong and I so hope he stays in touch and your relationship keeps improving...hugs to you & please keep us posted.