thekin this is God's word which applies to you.

Isaiah 29:13
The Lord says: “These people come near to me with their mouth and honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me.

Matthew 15:8
“‘These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me.

Mark 7:6
He replied, “Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you hypocrites; as it is written: “‘These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me.

You do not love God. It is written: Love for God is obedience to HIs commands. And He commands us, LOve your enemies, pray for those who persecute you, repay evil with good. Instead you slander and judge. You will be judged by your own words. Stop sinning and obey God!

1 John 4:20
Whoever claims to love God yet hates a brother or sister is a liar. For whoever does not love their brother and sister, whom they have seen, cannot love God, whom they have not seen.

....Joey I understand your principles and the bible verses you are pointing out to me...Humility, humbleness, love, take care of one another and all things of the like ; which is good being portrayed by my works towards others.....
.....Thus; in a basic principle of human understanding; works in opposition to this fundamental "Love thy neighbor"; would in ALMOST every single case be deemed works in opposition to God's commands.....
....Now I on purpose capitalized the word " ALMOST" for a reason.
....Even in biblical recorded history this " Love thy Neighbor"; has at times by God and His chosen men; has been tossed aside to deal with issues that had to be dealt with by a mighty fist.
....Many a biblical historic records have times when God's heavy duty men had to fully detract from this position.
.....Tons of times Israel had to full out wage armed conflict with it's neighbors.
.....If David was not deemed one of God's all time favorites then who is, as David had to fight the evil enemy in war.
.....Or what of Moses?.....Dishing out plagues and killing children of Egypt?
.....Because of circumstance and need; God allowed during certain times a detraction from the golden rule.
...............................................................................................
....Now, let's say my life is running all normal fine and dandy......
....Per your view on let's just love, kiss and hug everyone.......I am married to a beautiful wife and the neighbor next door believes I am away......However, unbeknownst to him; I am home....He breaks into my home with a weapon in hand with the intent of raping and pillaging my wife......
.....That neighbor is not going to end up leaving my house alive! I am not going to love him, kiss him, nor explain to him the error of his ways.....I spent 17 years in firearms training and will guarantee he has a hole in his head.....
....There are in fact levels of distinction you are not properly making......
.....In this exact same manner telling me I ought to love satan is a completely absurd and ridiculous notion.....
.....You keep trying to force me to fit in a box that God did NOT create me to fit into.....
.....If I hold to your train of thought.....Then I must also hold that nothing at all should have been done with Hitler and that everyone should have allowed him to finish what he started?.....
.....The murdering and mangling of innocent men, women and children has been a non-stop constant throughout every single age....And amazingly the Catholic Syn agog of Satan is actually deemed God's Church; whereas this entity and it's workers murdered untold millions for no cause......
...................................................................................................
....The golden rule is to forgive those who wrong you......
....Not only have I forgiven those who wronged me but went to lengths to reach out giving truths that if adhered to would lead one to God's truth of salvation to someone who sexually abused me in my youth causing a life long of suffering.....
.....However; God has me shifted outside of the box.....
....I did per God's will and attempted to do all things that is requested of him to stay inside that box of salvation.....I have taught and told truths and continue to do so.....I have reached out to help others....I have done what God wanted me to do; and unaware of it; the cost up to this point has been way more than I had perceived.....Even with knowing that the cost of what I did was going to be so much; given the exact opportunity, I still would have done the same. I am not all up and happy that the cost was to be as potent as it was; but I understand the why....At the start I had foolish expectations that God was going to raise me up to the level of all these other God dudes all decked out with cash, churches, hot babe, nice cars; you know; do God's work and you get rich!....If I was not put through the ringer as I was; I might still believe these are in fact, God's people! Never the less, I was unaware that all around me who heard my teachings would depart from me like the water parted in the Red Sea....Again, given a choice now knowing full well the cost; I would have done it again....Plus I am fully aware that there is one more level of demise that I must go through before I get to jump off this shit ball!
....................................................................................................
...God has a different purpose for me that is completely out of the normal manner of business that His people had to go through.....I had to and still have to go through my hacking just as everyone else did since the Lord left......I have a slot to fill; that is per God's choice......We all have to do what we all have to do.....
.....You all need to give me a break...If people going to church and cross bowing are not bothering me.....Or Israel keeps on keeping on with nonsensical Christ born at earth birth...I got you telling me God cannot choose me to do things that are not in the regular in the box order of things.....
...God made it blatantly aware to me of what will come to pass.....I lived from 1971-2000 without EVER a thought coming into my head that I would be given a special task by God......I claim no higher rank than the least of God's people....My task before taking my hacking is just a bit different then the most....Neither do I know of anyone who would want to be appointed such a task.....Most people want to be wined and dined and live a long, happy and prosperous life....Well I can guarantee one thing.....No one is going to make a statue of me or call a street after my name upon my departure!

yo9u are decieving yourself. Enjoy, God will keep bringing u down.

....And after that long post Joey......I will explain the why I do not fit in the box that almost everyone else has to a usual degree......
.....Most flat out over and over again simply refuse to believe me.....In most occasions I fully comprehend the why of a non-belief.....Yet there were 2 occasions I had a witness to occurance s that were a way out of the ordinary in the have to be order of things per man's theories......Therefore, in the have to see a miracle to believe is not a true statement because out of both occasions.....The first being a happening with my ex-wife; who in seeing still disbelieved.....The second with my sister who believed what she saw but understood it not.....
.....I can de-bunk all of Freud's theories....I can take any so called religious leader of God and turn them upside down; to where they will be in a corner where they are unable to explain.....I can make Einstein's have to be constants and invalidate them.......And I can take the must be's and make them not so to be a; must be....
.....Per Freud; anyone claiming to have had what he has classified as a psychotic episode; has to be a brain malady causing a delusion.....This theory of Freud has been accepted as a 100% fact of truth...A challenge to this theory is not acceptable in any of the learned circles.....
....However....1995; had a heavy duty symbolic vision of what was in my life; what is; and what was to be.....The hefty use of symbolism caused me not to fully understand its meaning; only until after the events unfolded.....Near the end of the vision I was shown satan turning into a Minotaur as with a fury he would come at me to kill me; as my only response was to close my eyes, kneeling in prayer to God......
....2006....Per regular doctors and psychiatrists; I has a psychotic episode and got jacked on meds that I should not have been on for 5 years......All I know is that physical pain is of a laughing matter compared to what I went through for at least a 4 hour barrage in the middle of the night.....Exactly as was shown to me 10-11 years prior; came to pass EXACTLY!
....Satan; in spirit form paid me a visit....At this point of the night I was in my kitchen, as satan was infuriated with me and tried to kill me; I had no idea what to do; as dude had lit up every possible nerve that could feel pain....I just closed my eyes, knelt in prayer; and asked for some help....When I opened my eyes he was gone.....Whatever he did do; my central nervous system was jacked for at least a few weeks....If I would have just let be I would have healed; instead forcibly the ex- caused me to go to hospital and on to delusion pills I got stuck for 5 years.....
....The whole vision, looked back upon from that day and earlier; came to an exacting full fruition...
....Therefore; it is 100% impossible to not have been a God sent vision......
.....Secondly; 100% impossible that what occurred to me is the theoretically deemed psychotic episode of seeing things not to exist but in a mental delusion.....
....Who in the world of doctoral PhD's can or would except my testimony? ....Not a one would because it would take all the years of their studying and the years of belief and effort that they have poured into their theories and invalidate some, most, or all of it!
.....God gave me a crash course on what is......God told me still of what is to come......
....Over the last decade I have been knocked around to such a degree that is is quite ridiculous.....
.....In this era of all things modern...modern medicine....technology....science....the industrial age......I do not quite fit in it......Mankind marvels at the grand apex of knowledge he has reached....Yet lost in the mix are the real truth's given by the Lord in the New Testament......God to man has become antiquated....That was then; this is now......Now; God loves everyone. Accept everyone and everything....Be a good boy, go with the program, be nice to everyone; go to church on Sunday and we will for sure all be meeting again together in heaven one day.....
....How can one fight this and not be fully ostracized?
....The need to kill you anymore for going against this tide is not needed......
.....Instead they have pills called anti-psychotics that if taken regularly will numb your mind into an Alzheimer's state.....A simple way to shut up and shut down anyone!

And just an FYI; to anyone who will lend an ear......The history of the world; which I have been digging into in depth; has never ever had a ceasing of non-Jews(Gentiles); whereas a continuation of murder, mayhem, pillage and rape has ever ceased to exist.
....I will just go from the Roman empire forwards......
....The brutality of the Roman empire was quite horrific......The Christian was their main target.....
....Constantine comes along, the Roman empire was crumbling, as pagans and Christians were tearing Italy apart. Constantine preparing to go off and kill some people with his army sees above the sun a sign of the cross and the Latin phrase meaning in this sign you will conquer....Further historical facts say he receives a vision to back this up.....Therefore, at this exact point in history the cross equating to a symbol of God goes into action, as Constantine has his army make crosses on their shields as they go hacking away. Victory in war is achieved and now Constantine now becomes both pagan and Christian; for what he saw convinces him the Christians do have the right God. Yet Constantine never leaves paganism and instead mish-mashes Christian Holy Days and combines them with pagan days of fest. The pagan fest days just get a white washing cover up.....Saturnalia becomes Christmas....Passover is tossed out for Easter.....Saturday Sabbath gets switched to SUNday...And on and on the changes go erasing all the adherence's the Christians once kept.
..... Murder without any real basis went back and forth during all periods in Europe. The Catholics murder at least an estimated 50,000,000......Those who stood to fight her were labeled heretics and have lost in the pages of history.....The St. Bartholomew Day Massacre was one of the brutal. Which of course to celebrate the grand achievement of killing unarmed men, women and children; a coin is struck by the Vatican in rememberence of a deed well done.
.....Over numeration of years, barbarians from the north would do their European rampaging.....The Huns their own....And the see-saw of race killing race and religion killing religion never did quell for any sustainable time.
....The Protestants grew into enough of a force causing the 30 years war where both factions butchered the other.
....WW1 came about and the dead were hefty.......
....WW2 rolled around as Hitler; without a doubt Satan induced killed 7,000,000 Christians and 5,000,000 Jews in the gas chambers and any other way these non-Aryans could be removed.....Complete death tolls for the full war is a horrendous number.
....This is just the never ending slaughters in Europe.....Let alone all other travesty's outside of these boundaries and within.....
.....Russia took there turn a hacking......My Polish heritage is now an embarrassment as the Poles were one of the first to turn over untold amounts of Jews to the Germans.....Then refusing to aid a ghetto uprising of the Jews in a locked up ghetto in Warsaw; the Poles got a bitter taste of their wimp out failure; as when Germany came to gas them; Russia refused to aid them; ironic no?
....Then Abu Sayef took up Mohammed s cause many of ages earlier and by the sword the Arabs fell into the hands of satan's induced book of fleshly pleasure. They did their own parading conquering and to conquer.
....Napoleon had his turn years before; unbeknownst to him; his removal of the pope to exile was the deadly wound to the papacy prophesied in Revelations. But over time it healed.
....Then once the South American and North American Continent was discovered; the Europeans went setting up forts and storehouse carrying loot and riches making the countrymen at home quite happy; as the poor inhabitants that were already there fell mercilessly......The Catholics soon arrived and brought their inquisition with them......The Jews that has settled there realized that as soon as these dudes came their departure was necessary and quickly to the North American Continent they reached......
.....Amazing to me, never disclosed in the history I knew. That the Jews of the South fought against the Jews of the North, as they did fight in both the Confederate and Northern armies.
....Another unknown fact was that the Puritans and Jews got along extremely well as both based their God knowledge on Old Testament and basically disregarded the New Testament as just a Jesus story.
.....The extraordinary thing about delving into history is when you come across something and can match it up to prophecy. It makes the prophecy valid and true and further proves history was etched out before the members of the time in history brought it to pass.
....I remember being young and really wished I was to be born in the 1940's as the 1950's seemed a great time to have a close knit family in America....But the truth of the matter is; never was their a time in history to have settled into a perfect family foundation......I do envy Abraham for somehow finding a Godly wife; for such luck has not been my destiny!
.....My point of pointing out the history of this murdering mayhem was just to enlighten.....
.....Because as of today......Europe is pretty much untied; under the banner of economy; but age old racial and religious tensions still have to just be laying dormant for now......America is Europe moved over an Ocean and we, England, most of Europe, Canada, and Australia are all tied in.....
......Then China and Russia are a tag team in the East......In the Middle is the Arabs with terrorism and a hate for Jews festering......Let alone the Christian verses Arab silent strategic war......And the rest are weak players on the chess board......
...In my eyes this chess board that is arranged seems perfect for a age ending showdown at some point......
......Anyone answer my question?........Biblically.....Is there a cry of peace at last before God let's loose or does God let loose bringing about a peace....I believe it is the first and not the later but anyones 2 cents would be of help!

1 John 4:20
Whoever claims to love God yet hates a brother or sister is a liar. For whoever does not love their brother and sister, whom they have seen, cannot love God, whom they have not seen.

To quote you, "I am not going to love him."


Matthew 25:45
45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’

James 1:22
Do not merely listen to the word, and so deceive yourselves. Do what it says.

You are blind but you think you can see: YOu do not know you are pitiful wretched, poor blind and naked. I know I am.

What did Jesus say?


Matthew 5:27-29
27 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ 28 But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

and

Matthew 5: 21-22
21 “You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, ‘You shall not murder, and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.’ 22 But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister will be subject to judgment.

You tell me you understand my principals and the words of God which I speak.
I tell you, they are not only my principals I adopted them, they are God's words not mine but I have accepted them as mine. God is continually transforming me by His word. You should cast yourself upon God's word and let it break you to pieces as it is you will be crushed by it.

It is written, out of the overflow of the heart the mouth speaks, and it is written the only thing that matters is faith expressing itself throu love. It is written that the scepter in Jesus hand represents justice, of which there are two sides, loving righteousness and hating evil. We have to hate evil, bu tit is the evil that comes from within our own hearts that we must hate first. The good saying is this, Jesus came to save sinners of whom I am the worst. YOu look at others actions and declare yourself righteous, you see with your eyes and say to yourself, I am better than them I have not persecuted millions. God says we are not to compare ourselves to one another, but only to Christ. And we have all sinned and fallen short.

Your argument is not with me. I am not condemning you. I am a sinner just like you. Even worse than you. You are arguing with God. It is God who said, love your enemy and pray for those who persecute you. And it is God who said (Matthew 12:37) For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned.”

You even deny the truth of the Gospel. What is the Gospel but good news? The good news is that the kingdom of God is at hand. What is written? God will set up an king on David's throne. He has. Jesus was presented to Israel as king. What else does it say?

Romans 9:6–13 But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For they are not all Israel who are descended from Israel; 7 nor are they all children because they are Abraham's descendants, but: "THROUGH ISAAC YOUR DESCENDANTS WILL BE NAMED." 8 That is, it is not the children of the flesh who are children of God, but the children of the promise are regarded as descendants.

Everything that God is, God's kingdom also is. God is love, His kingdom is a kingdom of love. God is peace, HIs kingdom is a kingdom of peace. God is spirit, his kingdom is a kingdom of spirit.

You expect like the Jews did that God's kingdom will be seen by all when it is here. God's word says clearly, HIs kingdom can not be observed. But then Jesus says some of you here will nto taste death before you see God's kingdom coming with power! It can not be seen by the proud, only by the humble. What else does it say? The kingdom of God is one of power and joy and peace in the Holy Spirit. What did Jesus say to his disiples? they asked are you now going to restore the kingdom? Jesus said, it is not for man to know the time, but in a few days you will recieve power. (the kingdom of God is a matter of POWER!) Unless you are born again you can not enter, why? Because the kingdom is of the Holy Spirit! Isnt the Holy Spirit God?

Do you like it when people twist your words and claim you have said something you did not? or claim you did not say something you did? You should be concerned that rather than comforming to God's word and being changed by it, You are acting as tho you know better than God! Your own words testify against you. I beg you repent and turn to God. Confess your sins. Let God heal you. Trust God and do as he says. I live in God's kingdom here and now but this is not eternal life. Eternal life is, John 17:3 And this is eternal life: to know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent-Jesus the Messiah. It also says, now we know in part. Then we will know fully even as we have been fully known.

Jesus said if you have seen me you have seen the father, and Jesus walked in perfect humility, even as they murdered HIm he prayed for them, "father forgive them for they know not what they do." If you want to live in Christ you must also say...about even those who would murder you, FAther forgive them for they know not what they do! NO one is trying to kill you, but you still take offense over and over and over. Love does not consider a wrong suffered. If God considered a wrong suffered, none could be saved.

....My brothers and sister; to whom I must love are not Nazi's.....
....Per your view Joey...I have to, according to Jesus; love Hitler, the popes, the inquisitors, as you might as well toss in Sadam Hussein, Osama Bin Laden, and all others who went out to murder and mangle.....Plus you have even tried to convince me to love satan and give him a loving teddy bear hug.
....Satan came at me to kill me and he had his reason for it. I could not match up to the power he wields and so God; who has the power; stopped him.....
....The teachings of God occurred nearly 2000 years ago....
....After His removal; His people were killed, raped, pillaged, mangled , tortured, gassed, and every horrendous thing that goes in-between.....
....Per, Revelations; He is going to bring his vengeance around full steam in retribution for these deeds and the doers of them......( Ample time has passed for anyone that so chose to stop this behavior and obey the Lord.)....It has NEVER ceased and per my knowledge of God's timeline; so close is retribution about to be enacted by God that a failure in understanding this is folly....
.....I took up the truths taught to me by God and went and told everyone I could; holding back nothing....A refusal by all to accept the truth landed me in a demise of the life I once had......
.....My life is but a microscopical image of God's work to the earth......For the benefit of the hearer; God told truths.....For the benefit of the receiver; I told truths.....God's truths were rejected; he was mocked and laughed at......My truths have been rejected and I have been mocked and laughed at......The cost the Lord had to pay in an attempt to break through lies; landed Him first to be tortured and scourged and then finally removed from the earth...... The cost for me has already been pain, suffering, and a destruction to my life; the same fate also awaits me......
.....God has already made it abundantly clear to me what my task will eventually be..It MUST come to pass......So for you to tell me my ending task is the exact opposite of what I must do; well; I think I will take the reasoning's God allowed me to know over the reasoning's you are holding to....
.....You just keep doing the things you must.....As I am doing nothing opposed to it, as of yet......But when the call comes in; a different course I MUST take.....

.....And Joey......I would love to hear what demise has befallen you for taking a stance on the side of God.....
...1) Have you went face to face against lying religious leaders and done battle?
...2) Did you have all your possessions and Sons removed from you because your evil wife chose to side with satan and then make war against you for doing what God had requested?
....3) Did you spend 5 years in a fog because your wife would not believe you and got you jacked on poison meds?
....4) Have you done anything to draw the attention of satan?
...5) Has God ever sent an angel to you?.....Any messages?...Anything at all?
...6) Have you been mocked, laughed at and had to deal with a never ending barrage, as all who were once around you have faded away because you told God given truths?
...7) Can you tell me exactly how satan looks?
...8) Can you tell me how demons look?
...9) Do angels have wings?
...10) Are churches houses to God?
.....................................................................
.....I have not written this as a form of discouragement....
....I have written this so you will cease to tell me things you do not understand.
....I have tough battles ahead, tough tasks, and difficult stances that I must make.
....For if you REALLY are standing on the side of God; glorification on earth cannot be your destiny but demise.

I am not speaking of things I do not understand but rather things you do not understand. However, since you prefer I cease I am willing enough to do that. SEE it is now finished.
God's peace be with you.

Give place to wrath;

You'll know them by their fruit;

Do not let your left hand know what your right hand does;

Pray in your closet;

give gifts discretely;



Turn the other cheek;





Pray for them that spitefully use you;






Love your enemies.









This is the upside down way of the kingdom of God-


Vengeance is mine, says the Lord

I fully agree with both of you do do good at all times without fail.....
.....However, per biblical timeline.....Israel has been brought back together.....
.....The earth is in desolation....
.....The true people of God have all been killed off of it......
.....Israel stands alone surrounded by enemies, plus Israel has not been awakened as of yet....
.....Therefore; due to all things that have occurred since the Lord's removal and the failure of almost all to do what was told; wrath has already started to be poured out......
.....Israel will need help to survive......God will send that help even though Israel is still defunct...
.....If you read through the Old Testament, as Joshua and men were traversing through the countryside to take their land; only when the enemy that they were invading were fully devoid of Godliness; then Israel was allowed to destroy them; which was God's judgement upon these people for their full all out UN-Godliness.....
.....The whole earth is basically devoid of Godliness; so as of then; the same will be now.....
....The only exception to this rule is Israel; per God's promises to the Patriarchs.....
.....And is it not written that those who war against the Jews will be utterly destroyed?....
.....This little tract of land on the whole earth is a thorn to the world.....
.....Europe throughout their whole history treated the Jews wrong.....Hitler did his thing and America ONLY involved itself AFTER Germany declared war on us......
.....Now Israel is surrounded by enemy; and a new Hitler is Iran......
.....Shit is going to hit the fan!!!!!!

....Here is an issue I must present......
.....If you look at world history after the time of Christ; all true Christians were almost every single time hacked off the earth.....
.....Since I am fully aware that the majority of heretics were God's people; this raises a question.....
.....This is; that, for what would cause anyone to attack the Catholic Church while in her power stage, whereas, whatever truth the individual would not cease in proclaiming was to sure bring upon this person a death with torture?
.....It is not like these people were not aware of what their fate was to be for a refusal to retract or not have said a word at all....The body count ran over 50 million; property was seized and the family you left behind suffered an ill fate.....But still knowing this was going to occur; these people would not cease!
....Now the Protestants come along and actually pick up the sword and the thirty year war ensues.....
....Amazing to me; with the ability to glimpse back, that the Protestants in those days were calling the Catholic Church the Mother of Harlots......Where logic is at a loss to me is that none could or did conclude that they were Mom's offspring.
....The industrial age ushered in and God basically took a back seat....Neither group was fighting each other anymore...And this continent opened up as the cross carrying Christians set up shop.....All types of sects and off-shoot beliefs sprung up here and took seed....
....So we have reached a point in history of full desolation.
....Sin is a nonchalant after thought; as a everything goes society is accepted as fine. I did grow up here and the order of things is not hidden from me.....The taught order of things is to party hard, bang babes, enjoy and prosper at all costs for one day you will die....Eventually we are supposed to settle for one women, set up shop, have kids, and go with the flow.
....People fit some kind of God into their schedule and send a prayer out when they want something.
....Churches and their leaders are deemed proper and right, as the pastors and such are deemed to be God's men.
.....I am keenly aware that as soon as you start fighting this; destruction MUST follow!
....One monster issue is to open your mouth and even attempt to fight what has been deemed right and true by just about everyone; this sticks you out like the only green light in a strand of all red ones.
.....To stand up and say no it is not okay to keep sinning; no it is not OK to keep adhering to these false holidays; no it is not OK to bow to a cross; and all things of such a nature....This now jacks you out of the box of acceptable and a never ending wave of trouble ensues....
....Then if you go even further with saying that we are not to be glorifying self and this whole place is a poison; further lands coals on your own head....
....After going through all of the above I have ceased to open my mouth anymore as I am sick of coals getting lopped onto my head.....My batting average was about .010 anyway and I see no change in it....
....I only see one door of escape; and that is not super appealing either....
....Due to the powers that be I am stuck til next year; no way of an escape.....
....I have 2 fronts I must fight and things are not going to be all peachy!....
...It is what it is.....

I just want to comment on page 2, post #20.
[Zechariah 9:9
[ The Coming of Zion’s King ] Rejoice greatly, Daughter Zion! Shout, Daughter Jerusalem! See, your king comes to you, righteous and victorious, lowly and riding on a donkey, on a colt, the foal of a donkey.]
Joey, have you actually read the book of Zechariah before? And you still think the Kingdom is here now? Wow! Read chapters 8-14. It tell us about the kingdom age when Christ is here.
Now, your verse talks about Jesus riding into Jerusalem. The people really thought that he was coming to "set up" the Kingdom. Do you remember what happened next? Well he doesnt set up the kingdom. But what parable does he talk about? A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return. He tells everyone that he has to go away first and then "return".

[This is fulfilled prophecy. Your king comes to you. I dont know how this can be any clearer. YOu say the kingdom of God has not been established(will only be established on Jesus return) and that Jesus has not yet been presented as king. (perhaps I have misunderstood you)]
No Joey, it hasnt. Plus, I did not say that he was NOT presented as King. Was Jesus the King of the Jews? Of course he was, why would I say that he wasnt, esp, if the bible says that?

[The above verses clearly state Jesus presented as king to Jerusalem. KIng presented. The establishment of HIs Kingdom soon to follow.]
I totally agree with you.

[YOu stated "It's not a mystery at all. God HAS revealed it to man. We read it in the scriptures. OT and NT." Mark 4v11, Luke 8v10]
Yes, thank you for proving my point.

[You say there is no mystery, Meaning you believe you understand. You believe you belong to God. It is difficult for me to believe that you do. Your words do not match God's word.]
Doesnt the bible also tell us that it HAS been revealed to us? I dont understand what the problem is???....... Plus, I never said that, "I belong to God". I would like to think I do. Dont you? Arent we God's children? Havent we been "called out"??????

[What I believe, Gods kingdom is here now, I live in it. I do not live in it physically but spiritually. And spiritually I have all of the fruits of God's spirit and God's kingdom. Love JOy Peace Patience gentleness Kindness goodness self control. I believe everything I believe about the kingdom fits precisly into God's word. What you speak of, doesnt. Are you not speaking of a physical kingdom that can be seen? ]
I think what your talking about and what I'm talking about is two different things...... I think you probably read more of the NT and leave out most of the OT. It is one book Joey.

Plus, I think we all have God's love, joy, peace and patience too. And yes, I am speaking of a phyical kingdom that can be seen. Doesnt scipture tell us that? It does. Doesnt the OT and the NT tell us about a coming kingdom that Christ will set up at his return? I can give more verses if you would like.

We know that when Jesus comes back he also fulfills the promises to Abraham and David. Well what was Abrahams's promises? Land inheritance. It was Israel. Israel will be restored. And David? Kingship. David's throne will be restored as Jesus as our King. That hasnt happened yet. Can we be part of that? Of course, thru baptism. We put on Christ and we are also in the promises to Abraham. Abraham and David HAVE TO be resurrected to recieve their promises and rewards. Same as us. We dont get our rewards at death. And we are not judged at death. IT's all at the return of our Lord.

Our reward is what? Immortality. Doesnt scripture tell us to "seek for Glory, Honour and Immortality"? Immortal where? On earth, where Christ will rule forever and ever.

"And the LORD will be King over the earth forever and ever."

Israel I do want to thank you for all of your posts. I am very much enjoying our discussions and I hope they can continue. I thought it would be prudent to share things we both believe. The list tho of things we agree on is really very long. For the sake of brevity I am going to choose seven things so please correct me if I am mistaken.

1. God's word is the truth.

2. God is one.

3. God alone is worthy of our praise and worship.

4. Jesus is our savior.

5. Jesus is our king

6. the kingdom of God will only be fully established upon Christ's return

7. God is sovereign and will reign over HIs kingdom(on earth) forever.

I do expect we are in perfect agreement over these things and then also over many others.
(please correct me if you dont agree on any of these things) I am going to offer you correction of things you have presumed of me that are not accurate. I hope that is acceptable to you.

YOu said: "Awsome verses Joey. Thanks. I use those verses too. Thanks again."

I do not "use" the word of God. You used the word "too" which is inclusive, I can not be included. I believe scripture is God breathed. meaning it came forth to us from God throu God's spirit guiding men to write or speak. I revere God's word, I love it, in fact my esteem for God's word is very akin to worship. I would not say I use God's word, to me that would be similar to saying I use God...which is a horrifying notion to me. I do speak God's word. God uses HIs word to transform me and what I believe. I test everything I hear against God's word. I meditate upon God's word, I listen to it, I read it, I love it. LOve and use? I find these two to be incongrous. I write this so that you may understand me a little better.


IN your next to last post particularly you made presumptions about what I believe which are incorrect. I will address these simply here by saying this. I read what you post very carefully. I read and reread your posts. I am listening to you carefully so that I may understand to the best of my ability exactly what it is that you believe.

Three quotes from your post.

"But I know that's false doctrine to you.

You just dont want to believe in that because it goes against your beliefs.

You say that's wrong."

None of these statements (or the way you used them) accurately represents what I believe. I have stated what I believe. Either you do not understand me, or you are not reading what i say carefully or something else is wrong but something is wrong for sure. IN order for our conversations to be productive we need to figure out what is wrong because otherwise we are not communicating.

God's word tells us, "out of the overflow of the heart the mouth speaks" This not only gives us insight to others if we listen to them, but it can also give us insight to ourselves if we listen to what is coming out of our own mouths. Whatever comes out of us, applies to us much more than to anyone else. I have not told you what you believe nor what you want to believe, nor would i be so presumptious. I can not understand what you believe unless you tell me and I listen to you(which you have and I have) You can not understand what I believe unless I tell you and you listen to me. (I have told you, obviously you are not understanding, I will work harder to be clear) You should also consider your own words, and apply them to yourself. (it is by our words we will be aqquitted and by our words we will be condemned.) your words are not about me or from me, but from your own heart.

"You just dont want to believe in that because it goes against your beliefs."

AS I have told you from the beginning, I am seeking God. God is the truth. I can not come to know or understand the truth unless I am willing to be wrong about everything I believe. I am willing to be wrong about everything.
God is not about what I believe or about what you believe. God is. We can only come to understand God throu His word and throu HIs spirit. LEt God be true and every man a liar. I am a man. I have sinned and fallen short of the Glory of God. Not only can I be wrong but I am often wrong and God is often correcting me. I have yet to hear you(israel) say you are willing to be wrong. You will understand my choice to refrain from discussions with you in the same way I have chosen to refrain from discussions with kingsent. If you are unwilling to be wrong there is no point. At first i accepted your word saying you try to be humble...the essence of humility is being willing to be wrong about anything or even everything. IF you prefer not to state directly your willingness to be wrong, I am sure you will understand why I consider further discussion with you to be a waste of time.