interesting..and very helpful! My H likes that also-tries to get me to do it, but, I'm not into it..some kinky things for me trigger my other addictions(drugs/drinking) and I dont want to go back there-it also can make me relive the trauma of past abuse. which I am coming to terms with more as I get older. I dont HAVE to let a man do anything to or with me, becuase its his thing, if it makes me feel very hurt and abused. But, thats me, and it has changed over the years. Its good you can be free and open about what you like in bed! so many woman cant.
Thank you so much for your help. Also, about the 12 step, wachit has many good points about recovery...it is about dicovering your love for yourself, but,I do understand how you feel about your children..I have 4--If I didnt have my older when I was 19, I would probably been dead by the time I was 25. I do wish, hoever, that I had found AA before I was 40...many wasted years..BUT it takes what it takes.. Recovery in sanon is difficult--thats all I can say... and the underage thing..well, I'm still not 100% conviinced thats just addiction.
more later.....

Mary: It is SO good that you are in contact with your Spirit. You know how self-respect is acquired. You've done that! And, I know you'll be fine...do well! I had to stand up for what I believe. It doesn't matter what my H believes, or a psych believes, or the neighbor believes. It matters what I believe...and how I choose to live "my" life. I have many good resources, and experience, regarding results of both thoughts and action. One has to think of an action before it is accomplished.

I let my H know that his twisted thoughts resulted in twisted action. And, that as long as he refused to really look at what he "thinks" and what he "does" and the "results" of both...he was unable to challenge himself. The war...was in himself. I was only a bystander....and observer. And, I let my H know this....I "know" what is right and wrong in this scenario. It is obvious. I choose to "see" what is "real." And, I choose to embrace the light. I will not walk with you in darkness. You can choose to come into the light...and walk with me. But, I will not compromise with you or anyone. And, I won't allow twisted thinking and twisted behavior to share my walk through this life. We can talk about that twisted thinking....twisted behavior...and the results. Action...brings results. And, it is easy to see. He had to come to "see." He does. However, he hadn't walked as far into that frame of mind and action as your H. That is an entirely different situation.

I know that you can "see" it is him whose blind.

Mary: I see you shared, " "son watching mom masturbate:.. and mom and son having sex. This is where I am confused."

This hardly compares with Playboy does it? I think people may start with lust there in girlie picture land...but it doesn't end there....and it gets progressively worse. More and more perverse. More and more shocking. And, I think it depends on the person somewhat too. My H never got into anything like that. I have shared some things I read about guys viewing some things. My H told me, "I have done some bad things, but even I have some morals." So, it seems somewhat dependent on the individual person. This kind of thing is "still" even in this very permissive society, considered perversion, and illegal... even if typical porn is not. However, if the society continues to move that direction...into lust...then where might it go? Is there an end? Not sure! I tolerate "none" of it. I'm not looking for "lust" in this life. And, I won't tolerate it. That's my "personal" postion and always has been. There is "no" question there for me at all.

Charlie...on the SA board...a retired psych, and current professor...shared that some even go as far as "snuff" flicks. Absolutely horrifying!!! Where young boys are kidnapped, raped, and killed on film. They sell them to those who indulge in that "level" of insane lust. Their motto..."after eight..it's too late!" Absolutely insane! The FBI has tried, and thus far failed, to find the "group" and prosecute. They get there too late. I suspect those very insane people started somewhere...and continued on..and on...to that degree of insanity. Sickening! Horrific!

So, though I am able to differentiate...crazy...and crazier. And, I do know the difference in legal and illegal. I have the opinion and belief that I will tolerate "none" of it. I don't intend to become desensitized to "crazy."

I agree with Sheen that there is a vast difference between the addict who views adult prn and those who view children as sx objects. I also don't think the latter is just an addiction. This goes much deeper.
I have to say with my own H that even in the throws of the worst of it, there were lines he would never cross so he did have some moral compass although it in no way matched my own.

Hi Mary, you ask about the cp. This is an area that's heavily contested in psych circles but I'll give you what my research has given me.

First, the definition of what SA is, is very much in dispute with therapists. Currently, SA is not even a recognized psychological illness according to the current version of the DSM which is the "bible" of recognized psychiatric illnesses... although it does recognize certain fetishes, known as paraphilias. Pedophilia does fall into this category.

Having said that, there is considerable disagreement even among those practitioners who do acknowledge SA, as to whether or not it falls into the category of addiction, or of obsessive/compulsive disorder. This has relevance for treatment modes and claims that are made about success rates.

In order to qualify as an addiction, it has to meet the criteria and one of the criteria is, that it is a progressive disease. That is, sufferers develop tolerance and need stronger "doses" to get their hit. What this means in terms of porn and sexual acting out, that sufferers will move to more and more extreme stimulus to get the same kick that they got originally from, say, a Playboy pinup. In fact, to qualify as an addiction there has to be evidence of "progression" in the illness. The evidence suggests that my H only moved to young women within the last four years. Before that, there was a descent that followed a trajectory from Playboy through hardcore porn, transexual, homosexual, voyeurism, bestiality... you get the idea. It took my H over thirty years to travel down this road but some people get to it faster than others. The speed of the descent can vary quite considerably. Some people can stay at one level for years, others succumb faster.

The second thing that is being explored in these cases is the concept of what, exactly is pedophilia? Some therapists are considering that there are different categories. One, sometimes described as "true" pedophilia, is a class of person who is almost exclusively, or primarily attracted to children. In this definition, such people have always had an attraction to children and have always preferred children. Many therapists believe that this category of offender cannot be rehabilitated with any of the methods that are currently known.

The other class of pedophilia is sometimes called "acquired" pedophilia and is believed to be a result of the so-called "natural" progression of SA. Many therapists believe that there is some hope of cure in this form of pedophilia, if the SA is successfully addressed.

To further complicate this analysis, while there is always progression and escalation with SA, not all people will progress into pedophilia as part of their trajectory. The reasons why different people progress in different ways are not really well understood, although there are plenty of theories about that, too... mostly to do with individual temperament and childhood trauma models.

Furthermore, pedophiles can suffer from SA as well. So working out whether a man is an SA who has deteriorated into pedophilia, or a pedophile who also suffers from SA would be a challenge for the layman.

Finally, most of the above is predicated on accepting the addiction model and treatment modes for SA. If SA is OCD, much of the above analysis may not apply.

This is a snapshot of my research. I believe it helps to be educated but you should know that I am an academic but my field is not psychology, so the information above is the result of my private research and is by no means exhaustive. I hope it helps.

Mary, you've gotten some really great answers here. And wow. I can't get over thinking Lolita is about the girl wanting Humbert Humbert. Wow. It doesn't even matter but I'm wondering which version of Lolita he saw or read, because no. James Mason is super creepy, the book is creepy and I haven't seen the Jeremy Irons version but I bet it's creepy.

You are not going mad or looking for reasons to bail. You are thinking rationally if you are thinking you should probably leave, in my opinion.

Thank you conniption-This analysis is outstanding! I have read some literature on this subject, but my research is limited. When you came to define addiction,well, a light bulb went off. I am very active in AA, and have been taught that , as you said, a major sign of addiction is the progression!
I am going to review this with my therapist(s).and I'll let you all know if I get feedback about my H

Thank you so much!