Spouses of Sexual Addicts. Community Group
Hi-I know I seem to fixate on the issue of underage porn, but maybe others here are having the same problem. My H and I met with a certified sex addictiontherapist last night and he was wonderful. At one point, when my H was saying that this deviation into teen porn was a recent downward spiral, I mentioned that , when I first met him 10 years ago, I saw a very recent history search of "LOLITA", on his computer. At that time, with no reason to mistrust my H to be, I didnt think too much about it, escept he was a lonely guy, someitmes watching porn. I didnt know what "lolita" was. When I said this, the (rather young) CSAT, said "what is lolita?. I STARTED to tell him about the infamous and contoversial book/movie story of a pedophile, who seeks out a marriage with a middle age woman, to get close to her 11/12 year old daughter, and engages in a relationship with the girl.
I JUST HIT ME know, that my H interjected: " Its a story about a young girl who falls in love with an older man."
WHAT??!!??? Is that the way his mind works. ? Does he truly see young girls 11-17, as equal, willing partners, without seeing their innocence? Does he see the man in this story as the one being pursued by the girl, just because the child smiled at him and loved being adored ?? As I've mentioned before, I am a victim on incest, age 3,older brother, and was raped in my later teens. This makes me nauseous.
Today, my H just wants to have a Date with me..He acts like a drug addict who needs a fix... but I still cant get past all this insanity--the Toxicity of the porn life he had-(as the CSAT stated)
Am I going mad or am I looking for reasons to bail on this marriage? ( I have ended 2 marriages before)'
I am having a hard time distinghishing what is "normal" and what is pedophelia.
almost becoming desensitized to the nature of the pictures he looked at-pictures that are completely FREE and easily accessed on the internet. ,of girls that LOOK 11-17. Then I look at my beautiful 15 year old daughter( she is truly beautiful and built like a young model) and I cant help wonder how he looked at her, or if he fantasized about a relationship with her.
I wonder if what he said was a freudian slip, and a sign from above that, things ARE what they LOOK like.
If anyone here has had experience with the teen porn/contact, please give me advice. I had one friend tell me. "its all just porn..its all the same" and that made me wonder in I was not being understanding enough of this very real online temptation..the webmasters do lure the guys towards that teen stuff. But, as the therapist last night said.. "there is a trigger in most people's minds that tells them,...wait..this is NOT acceptable..OR ..this is not what I truly desire, and They will leave the sites.. My H pursued those sites often.
I'll check back later-- blessing to you all ladies.. stay strong..have faith.. all things will work together for your good..
: ) with all my doubts, I DO believe that statement..!
I JUST HIT ME know, that my H interjected: " Its a story about a young girl who falls in love with an older man."
WHAT??!!??? Is that the way his mind works. ? Does he truly see young girls 11-17, as equal, willing partners, without seeing their innocence? Does he see the man in this story as the one being pursued by the girl, just because the child smiled at him and loved being adored ?? As I've mentioned before, I am a victim on incest, age 3,older brother, and was raped in my later teens. This makes me nauseous.
Today, my H just wants to have a Date with me..He acts like a drug addict who needs a fix... but I still cant get past all this insanity--the Toxicity of the porn life he had-(as the CSAT stated)
Am I going mad or am I looking for reasons to bail on this marriage? ( I have ended 2 marriages before)'
I am having a hard time distinghishing what is "normal" and what is pedophelia.
almost becoming desensitized to the nature of the pictures he looked at-pictures that are completely FREE and easily accessed on the internet. ,of girls that LOOK 11-17. Then I look at my beautiful 15 year old daughter( she is truly beautiful and built like a young model) and I cant help wonder how he looked at her, or if he fantasized about a relationship with her.
I wonder if what he said was a freudian slip, and a sign from above that, things ARE what they LOOK like.
If anyone here has had experience with the teen porn/contact, please give me advice. I had one friend tell me. "its all just porn..its all the same" and that made me wonder in I was not being understanding enough of this very real online temptation..the webmasters do lure the guys towards that teen stuff. But, as the therapist last night said.. "there is a trigger in most people's minds that tells them,...wait..this is NOT acceptable..OR ..this is not what I truly desire, and They will leave the sites.. My H pursued those sites often.
I'll check back later-- blessing to you all ladies.. stay strong..have faith.. all things will work together for your good..
: ) with all my doubts, I DO believe that statement..!
Also, Your H sounds like he is addicted to fantasies about sx with girls who are post pubescent so that doesn't make him a pedophile. His fascination with girls who are post pubescent are not less disburbing though and these girls are still considered very much underage. Should he actually cross over the line, he puts himself in the very bad position of being arrested and you can see what that can do to a family from Melissa's story.
This is not run of the mill sx addiction. This is very disturbing and I wouldn't even consider it an addiction as much as it might be an illness of sorts. Also, you are spot on in your analysis of him thinking that it is possible for a post pubescent girl to fall in love with a man old enough to be her father. This is very distored thinking that is no doubt caused by his ongoing acting out which has messed terribly with his brain chemistry. He will be unable to tell any kind of truth under those circumstances and will continue to minimize and defend himself in order to control you.
Also, Mary I do hope you are getting therapy for your own trauma. Having such traumatic events happen at such a young age is a very difficult thing to deal with.
I do firmly believe (and you may not agree with me) that we all seek out our mates with the sole intention of healing our own trauma and resolving our many unresolved issues. Hugs!
Bailing out, if that's what divorcing means, because the toothpaste tube is a problem is one thing. Getting out, because a mate is a liar and cheat is quite another. Getting out because a man is seeking ogling youngsters even another. Honestly, if I had twenty marriages, and in each one of them my partner was a liar and cheat, and most likely no end to it, I would divorce every single one of them, and know it was right to do so! I think that's quite healthy and sensible. Did Christie Brinkley divorce her H? Yes! Did Sandra Bullock divorce her H? Yes! Is Arnold "I'll be back" in divorce court? Yes! Are those women mad? I don't think so! And, if my H hasn't quit and begins again, will I be "mad?" Nope, but I will divorce him! And, I won't be wondering what is wrong with me....I will "know" what is wrong with him.
Yes, "I" find it "much"more disturbing if a man is seeking out viewing pre-teens, teens, or look like teen porn. The law is also "much" concerned if they do so. They can go to jail...and might be tagged for life along with that. Neigbors are often disturbed about their presence. There are "very" stringent laws about those things...because our society as a whole finds it "much" more disturbing. So, you're feelings are the norm....his are not. Your friend said, " "its all just porn..its all the same." Her views are not consisent with the norms in our society either. And, he has a serious problem. I'm not sure about a Freudian slip...or if it's "his" view of things you're hearing...likely the latter.
You have your life, and your daughter's concerns to tend. You aren't a psych. A psych knows the laws, and they know the norms too. They also know about freudian slips, and internal belief systems. Good that you have one! What you have to tend is "your" feelings. I wouldn't care if the entire society said porn...even typical porn...was a good thing. It "isn't" good in my estimation...and I'm the one who is responsible to live with "my" values. You indicate that "you" are "very' concerned about what he's doing. That is "your" values. And those are for your keeping. He has his own...and they're likely to take him to really troublesome places in life.
The age range of 11- 17 in porn, is very scary. At the bottom of that age range, men are cultivating in themselves a taste for the female form in which secondary sexual characteristics are absent or minimal. The actresses who pose for this material are often chosen for their absent or minimal breasts and underdeveloped, boy shaped bodies. The appearance is enhanced by such devices as shaving the pubic hair
and the addition of such markers as braces on their teeth, lollipops and so forth.
The point of Nabakov's Lolita was precisely to examine the distorted thinking in hebephiles/pedophiles and the way they justified their actions by assuming the child "wanted" the relationship, as if the child understood or was able to take responsibility for it. In Nabakov's book, it is perfectly obvious by the end that the child's life
is ruined and the protagonist can see that but I can see how an SA, reading that novel would misinterpret it
and indeed, the the whole point of the novel. Anyway, it is a common misperception of hebephiles/pedophiles
and evidence of the distorted thinking that characterizes this disease (for lack of a better word).
Obviously your daughter is very lovely and I can understand why you are afraid but even a plain child is at
risk if a hebephile/pedophile is in their life and indulging in acting out. As your CSAT said, "there is a trigger in people's minds that says... wait... this is NOT acceptable". When that trigger is absent, you can assume that an SA's moral compass has been severely compromised. In my opinion, you would be justified in having doubts.
Mary, only you can decide about your marriage but you should trust yourself implicitly. There is nothing wrong with the way you are thinking through this. I don't know if your H has ever acted out with children but I can certainly understand why you are worried about it. Your fears are entirely reasonable. He has mindlessly gone into areas where healthy people do not go. His thinking is very distorted and he is neither honest with you, nor is he prepared to be transparent (i.e. he is resistant to a lie sector test). He also appears to be in denial about many aspects of his SA and you already know he will lie to you with a straight face.
My point here is that you cannot tell from anything that he says, whether you or your daughter are safe. So, the only way you can assess this is based on your own perceptions about it. Unfortunately, SA lying leaves us unable to rely on anything they say, so you cannot give much weight to his words. You have to base your decisions on your other perceptions. The only way you can do this is to fully trust yourself and under the circumstances, I believe you are fully justified in doing that.
It doesn't matter if you are wrong. His indignation is not defensible. His behavior and lies have put you in the position where you cannot place reliance on what he says. Now, as wach would say, you must do what is in your best regard... whatever that is.
I'm not saying you should divorce him. That is something only you can decide having regards to your entire circumstances of which, only you can know the full details (insofar as you can know them) but I am saying that he has made it impossible for you to know the truth of his side of the story, so you must trust yourself and stop having self-doubt. It is a consequence of his choices that you are in the position of not being able to trust him.
Apologies if this post is repetitive or disorganized. My computer imploded and I'm doing everything from an iPad. I cannot review what I have written and edit it. As well as that, it has an annoying spell predict that constantly corrects what I've written into the words it thinks I really meant. I caught it changing the word prostitute into "pay tires"! Go figure. :)
I am going to tell you my point of view and remember it is only that please. My husband began back 14 years ago looking at porn with teens and chatting with teens. The girls averaged about 16. He would ask for nude pictures etc. This behavior progressed to him exposing himself to 3 girls ages 16-17-18 and asking them to suck his dick(sorry for vulgarity). He was arrested lost his job. Lucky for him he got probation (2 years) and 2 years of intense counseling which I supported him through whole heartedly. Low and behold he had one of the best SA counselors in Ohio he still continued behavior with 3somes and orgies unbeknownst to me.He went on a business trip about 2 months ago and was arrested for child inticement (2 counts), sexual assualt of a child, and internet alluring. The girls ages...14 and 16. I think once this starts it almost always progresses. I too have a beautiful 12 year old very developed daughter. I loved H more than anything had no idea what he was up to thought our marriage had become ideal. I have to think of my daughter and cannot live with him overstepping this boundry. You must ask yourself do I live in constant turmoil ? Do I always wonder what he is thinking about my daughter? What do I do if he crosses the line with her, her friends etc. I know belive me how painful it is to lose the marriage, house etc a but I would rather go a 100 years not seeing him again than risk any of these possibilities. Mary it grows and they usually do not stop until they hurt the child or are arrested. This is different than just addiction. Affairs I can handle children/teenagers I cannot. Good Luck I will pray for you and hope God keeps you and your daughter and any other teens out there safe from men like our husbands... Do what you have to but please keep your daughter and others if you can safe. This has to be dealt with whether you are with him or not.....Even on the internet he can and eventually will get caught the police have many stings. Please take care....Melissa
Having this knowledge at this point in time is invaluable. Knowledge is power and don't ever underestimate your mistrust your own intuition. If I've learned anything I've learned that much and I remember that ultimately I only have myself to keep myself safe and that no one can really take better care of me than me.
So stay safe and use that information to make the best possible choices for your own life. Hugs!!!
conniption wrote :
if a hebephile/pedophile is in their life and indulging in acting out. As your CSAT said, "there is a trigger in people's minds that says... wait... this is NOT acceptable". When that trigger is absent, you can assume that an SA's moral compass has been severely compromised. In my opinion, you would be justified in having doubts.
That hit me--I may be at the point where i can see his "moral compass" is severely compromised, and perhaps can not be "fixed"
wachit: ""This is not run of the mill sx addiction. This is very disturbing and I wouldn't even consider it an addiction as much as it might be an illness of sorts.""
Thats what I am beginning to think as well..
He is not "responding" to the SA...He has done 12 step work for 15 years! gave up both alcohol and cigarettes, fairly "easily", but this is very very different...he cant stop this..
""Also, Mary I do hope you are getting therapy for your own trauma. Having such traumatic events happen at such a young age is a very difficult thing to deal with.
I do firmly believe (and you may not agree with me) that we all seek out our mates with the sole intention of healing our own trauma and resolving our many unresolved issues. Hugs! ""
YES wachit-ty-I am getting help for my past trauma..years ago, and now. I feel this CSAT is a Godsend and I hope to continue with him on my own. Yes, I do now,after reading books the last few weesk, see how we seek out partners to heal a lack/loss/trauma from our past. Lots of outstanding insight I am getting!!
SheenRa:
"" You indicate that "you" are "very' concerned about what he's doing. That is "your" values. And those are for your keeping. He has his own...and they're likely to take him to really troublesome places in life. ""
That is spot on..I have my values..and we conflict, not only in this issue, but in many other areas of socialism,politics,child rearing.. I have gradually over the years seen those differences, but told myself, we are allowed to be different..BUT, there are some differences that I do NOT have to accept. I came to that realization a couple weeks ago..of course I havent taken "action" yet.
He is very manipulative and, as wachit said recently, ""
""Melissa you mentioned something in your post which bears emphasizing. You said you thought your marriage had becomeIDEAL.. This is what happens when the addict (and I'm not even sure if you can call this addiction at this point) can hide their actions so well and manipulate their spouses so well that they have no idea what is happening""
so absolutely true..
and lastly...dear MelissaMom..
...""God keeps you and your daughter and any other teens out there safe from men like our husbands... Do what you have to but please keep your daughter and others if you can safe"" and
""You must ask yourself do I live in constant turmoil ? Do I always wonder what he is thinking about my daughter?""
your post was, perhaps, what I was waiting for in a way for weeks.. someone who has BEEN where I am, and much much further than where i am now..where i(He) could get to, if I beleive the lies, and allow this to progress.
It is so painful, and I empathize with your very raw pain and emotion. My heart goes out to you..
Thank you so very much for honestly sharing. I do get so confused.. I fall back into believing the lies, but I also have faith. I believe things are revealed when they are supposed to be revealed. And even with all the pain and "loss" of time, this is as it supposed to be. If this marriage ends.. well, some good did come out of the last 9 years with him. I can see that.. but I CAN move on, as a strong woman alone. Am I afraid..oh yes..we have no money at all..no savings..he has been unemployed most of our marriage.., but I have support...family,friends,AA family , therapist ,and all of you here. I have to learn to believe in myself and trust myself, ...as connipton said:
"" The only way you can do this is to fully trust yourself and under the circumstances, I believe you are fully justified in doing that. "".
Thank you ALL so very much...you give me strength and hope..
have a beautiful day....
See, my H attempted to compromise "my" beliefs. He attempted to justify his behavior with the twisted "norms" of this society. This society and many others attempt to justify their behaviors and the beliefs that support the behavior. I readily identified those as "his" beliefs...and their beliefs...very separate from mine. While I can allow that "others" will live according to their own belief systems, I have to embrace my own. And so, if they think that is right for them....they have to live their convictions. But, their results are so plain that I become even more aware of how wrong they really are. Their shame is a great indicator of the results of their twisted values. Not even they can be proud of their behavior. Not even they can justify it. And, I certainly can't. The results of their lives just support what I already knew...it isn't good.
The CSAT we saw last wednesday mentioned something similiar to what you said about:
""Their shame is a great indicator of the results of their twisted values""
He "gentley suggested that to my H..that his shame and his continued hiding& lying indicated that he knew this was very wrong. He could not justify otherwise.
Thanks so much SheenRe--you have been an inspiration for me.
mary
I know you want to preserve your relationship, but what he is saying has valuable information for you.
It sounds to me from his comments that even though he may not be able to control his urges just yet, he is aware of how they got started and awareness for an addict is very valuable. I hope he can get some help very soon.
Has he ever tried a 12 step program? These are free for both SAs and spouses (SANON) and building a support system and being in an environment where there is no judgment is so important especially in the early stages of recovery.
Also, consider this website which provides valuable information about SA for both addict and spouses and is free to use:
www.recoverynation.com
This is a hard concept for most people. Self abandonment takes many forms, addiction being chief among them.
When you go back into your own childhood, who sent you the message that you didn't matter?
This is really what recovery is all about and why therapy is so essential to healing.
If you are so inclined, you may be interested in reading more article about these concepts at
www.innerbonding.com
I have learned that in order to really be a good mother, I most role model for my own children how essential self care really is otherwise they may be doomed to repeat the same cycle of self abandonment, caretaking, co-dependency and even addiction. Blessings!
..says my daughter should not be allowed to dress in a certain way etc..how very very twisted. I suppose they are conflicted in their minds..or "know" being turned on in certain settings(school.church) is shameful, so they lash out in anger towards someone else.. My H acts out in anger when he doesnt get what he wants; or redirects his sexual frustration towards anger and controlling with me,but especially with my children. There are so many sick things I can wrap my head around. Like 2 weeks ago, when he had a "slip",.. My son's battery died in his car ands..my son wanted me to go help him, but my H said he would do it(I'm not good with cars at all) .When my H returned, I was in bed..I could hear him peekin g in..
he PROMPTLY went on the computer and googled "son watching mom masturbate:.. and mom and son having sex. This is where I am confused.. the other women here who have men you looked at CP, did they also watch other kinds of porn? or was it exlusively cp? I may do a separate post/question.. I'm am still in the "discovery" stage..planning on a polygraph, but he is still very much here,living with me day by day.... thanks everyone..