2song: I'm very sorry. There is no hurt quite like the hurt this stuff brings. I know how you feel. A long, long time ago I had given my XH that same promise....do this again...and I'll have to divorce you. He had done so MUCH already. But, I determined to give it one last try. He betrayed me again. And, like you, I cried so hard...it HURT so bad. But, I knew at that time that I wasn't willing to ever feel that way again.

So, I cried while I packed a suitcase. I cried while I spent the night at a homeless shelter. I cried when I called my boss to help me by bringing my last check. I cried as she drove me to the bus station. I cried through the entire bus ride. I was only 29 years old, and I hurt and cried till I thought I'd die from the pain. But, I kept moving on...away from the cause of all of that distress...never to return. I cried till I vomited...for days.

But, I got up each day with resolve...I'm not going to live that way. I'm going to find a job, and figure out a different life from that one. I looked for work and when I didn't find it right away, I cried myself to sleep at night. I was really scared... I had nothing...no car...no home...a single check. But I was far more scared of living the remainder of my life with someone who would keep on hurting me...over and over. So, through my tears, I kept trying. I tried, and cried, till I found a job. And, I went to work, thankful for that job, but still somewhat scared. My whole life, habits, routines, had just ended. And, I had to start all over and make new ones. And off and on, less and less, I cried because someone I so loved would treat me that way. I cried for the loss of my home. I cried for the loss of so many things.

But still, each day, I was thankful too. I was thankful for my job. I was thankful when I saved enough to rent a tiny little one-bedroom apartment. I was thankful when I could buy a few dishes at the Goodwill. I was thankful that I could sleep at night, after sometimes crying, safe, with no tormentor there to harm me. I got up everyday, and I worked hard at building a new life. I cried when I bought my little car, a Triumph TR7 convertible...just for ME. I cried from joy that time. And everytime I got a raise for my hardwork, I cried from joy, and I thanked God for these gifts.

There were times when I still cried because he had treated me so badly. But that crying was just remorse for lost years while letting him torment me. And for years of his abuse. And for the many times he had hurt me physically and emotionally. I no longer cried because I thought I was losing love, I cried in sorrow for that poor young girl who had been treated horribly. I cried for her. She had been hurt so badly for no reason at all. And I cried sometimes when I prayed. I prayed for God to give me strength every day to guide my new life. And I cried in thankfulness that I got to guide the new life.

And over a year passed. The remorseful crying fell far short of the thankful crying. I cried less and less...and smiled more and more. Sometimes excited like a little kid...because I could afford a new dress. I slept soundly. I had good times. Once in a long while I cried, but just a sniffle or two. More often, I was driving that little convertible around enjoying the sun and breeze on my face...and there was no one to torment me. And one day, my divorce became final. My lawyer called and said "it's done, you can come get your copy." And I cried...from relief!

So, yes there are tears. I lived through a lot of them. But, I got up everyday, and I gave every ounce of my energy to get to a safe place, and to get stable, and to learn to enjoy life that had long ago become intermittent hell.

When I say I've been there, believe me I have. And, I lived through it. Through the sorrow. Through the tears. And there was joy on the other side of that. More than I had ever had in my life up to that point. But, I had to walk toward it and away from the tormentor. And though I was scared, and had virually nothing going for me...I kept walking forward. I kept trying to make a life for me...free of the torment of that man's behavior. And the farther away I walked, the clearer it became where I had been. I had walked out of Hell on this Earth. And then I wondered, why did I cry...I should have been glad.

My wonderrful Father in Heaven I pray for 2songbirds. How she hurts today. A hurt that goes so deep. The person she trusted and loved was too selfish to see what he had. Father I ask you to comfort her and give her wisdom in the days ahead. You love her so and you tell us in your Word that you will be a Father to the Fatherless and a Husband to the Husbandless. My heart hurts so deeply Lord for her. She has these wee to take care of as will as herself. Your Word tells us that weeping my endure for a night but joy comes in the morning. Be her strength in the days ahead. I pray for her husband that Father he would seek the help he needs. That the eyes of his understanding would be opened and he would be broken before her and You. The path he has chosen is a path that will only lead to destruction. Already he is too blind to see that he is destroying the love of a good woman. Again Father open his eyes before it is too late. In Jesus Name

I'm so sorry sweetheart! If I could I would wrap my arms around you and give you a big hug. I don't know if you are a person of faith or not but I just want you to know God see's your pain, and he loves you, We can wonder how can a God of love allow something like this but He is a God who gives us a free will. We all make our choices. Your husbands choice has led you down a road of tears and heartache. The wonderful thing is He loves us so much that we can trust Him to walk with us through any trial we face. He is our help in our day of trouble. When the road is winding way to long I stand he will deliver me and I pray that for you. When anything that is shattered is laid before the Lord just watch and see it will not me undeemed. I pray that for you as well. God bless Sweetie.

2 Songs, I am sorry to hear of your pain, big hugs honey.

I am sorry i am forgetting your story, and have forgotten if your h is in committed recovery or not. I am going to presume he is, and this is a slip of some kind. I also can't remember if his acting out was porn or otherwise.

Unfortunately life with a recovering SA is not an easy one. They are always recovering and never cured, and this is a sad reality. Even with the grandest promises, willpower and resolve all addicts are going to face triggers, urges and anxiety at times. Unless they are working on their recovery daily, working on their childhood demons and working on their often lagging self esteem......the Sexual Addict is going to face some real struggles......and may result in a slip or a relapse.
I know what its like being a spouse in these conditions. I have been on this recovery magic carpet ride now for over 2 and a half years. There have been highs and lows, with lots of learning curves, many stressful moments and 2 slips...thankfully not a relapse. The single hardest thing for me was to accept that if i wanted to hear honesty, i had to be ready to hear brutal honesty and accept it. Not berate him, not cry and yell at him, not judge him for his triggers nor slips. I had to learn his issues are just not about me, its All very much about him.
And it is, its all about the SA. They fear honesty, they fear upsetting us further, they fear triggering us again, they fear judgement and us not understanding. They fear us leaving them. So my question for you is....Are you ready to hear honesty? If he is struggling with a trigger, can he come to you, and talk about it? Do you guys have a recovery plan for triggers or slips?
Now if you guys have a plan, and that has failed....then you both need to go back over the events that has lead to this slip (or relapse) and see where the errors were and what could be learnt from this for a possible next time trigger, before it becomes a slip.

I am sorry you are hurting, i do understand. Have you guys talked about this yet?

I'm so sorry to hear what has happened. I'm sorry that I don't know the history of your relationship and your H's addiction, but based on what you write here, all I can say is slips do happen during recovery and are expected. Relapses happen because of complacency. Recovery happens over a span of years and for some it can take as much as five years.
I myself have made the same threats, but when I found out my H slipped, I realized that those threats were not rational when I made them. I had to better understand the process of recovery for him and having done that, I have been able to readjust my own thinking in terms of outcome.
Was your H complacent in his recovery? Did he slack off working his program? What about your own recovery? How is that going for you?
Before you make any rash decisions, allow yourself some time to experience what you are feeling. You probably aren't in any emotional state to up and leave. Also, give yourself some time to readjust your thinking about leaving and create healthy boundaries for yourself and your children.
Your H may want to talk about this with you, but in a way that is not threatening to either one of you. If he is willing to go back to working a program, how will that impact your decision?
If a separation is in order, then maybe a few months apart will help you both gain perspective about your goals.
Stay strong...you are not alone!

I came to understand that life with a SA is full of hurt, pain, chaos, selfiness, lies, emptiness; life is simply without any balance. In my world it will never be peaceful unless I ignore all he has done. I was ask to give more than I was able to give and more than I should have in that giving caused myself great pain and damage. I couldn't feed his ego, his addiction nor could I live with a smoke screen relationship. I gave all I had to give and at the end he gave me a mess to clean up within myself. If you do leave becareful, if he has not been in recovery he will TURN on you he will think of nothing but the things he did for you and the kids and he will throw whatever mud he can, even if it is not true!!!!
The only thing for me worse than living with a SA is divocing one!!!

Yes, living with anyone who has an addiction and is in denial is hell! Getting out is best if they refuse to work on their recovery seriously and accept FULL responsibility.
However, it is always important to understand the need to disengage when in this situation whether you stay or go. This has nothing to do with you and all the decisions that are made having nothing to do with you (neither should recovery for that matter). I hope you do understand that this is not your fault nor do you have any control over it, even with threats.
I have found in my own marriage that healthy, reasonable boundaries work much better than threats. All threats did was to force my H to continue to hide things from from because his fear of abandonment. Once I made it clear that brutal honesty was more valuable to me than anything else and that he had nothing to fear as long as he worked his program, remained accountable and took full responsibility following healthy boundaries, then he was safe.
I have learned that recovery cannot take place for myself or my H unless we both create a safe inner space for ourselves and threats were not part of that .
If however, you feel unsafe and recovery is not happening and there is still betrayal, then definitely consider reasonable options.
Personally, I find it difficult to make reasonable decisions for myself when I am so wounded. It takes time to make good choices so take your time and consider your options.
Hugs!!

I am having a hard time with "This has nothing to do with you".
No it doesnt have to do with their acting out but life with an addict that is not in recovery and cast blame on their spouse can lead to more damage, hurt and the ability to heal and repair what the addiction has created in your life! Each person has the right to heal and if it doesn't start with the addict the spouse can't heal(addictions create a world of chaos) and repair or work through their own issues from finding out all that has been done. To stay in my relationship with my SA telling me to get over it, move forward, I don't want to talk about it...... is madding!!! You being to feel BROKEN beyond repair, used and your feelings simply don't matter. You being to feel like you are the crazy one, these men are the masters of manipulation, charmng and conning. Watch yourself! This is just the view from the other side of the relations when trying to leave(well, I have left and had to stop all contact). They don't stop their destructive behavoir just because you leave, mine lies more manipulates more use my emotions against me more. He has learn how to get me to react.
Part of being healthy is to seeing that another will never be health and that doesn't mean just not acting out! They can stop acting out but if they don't fix what caused the addiction to being with then they aren't healthy and never will your relationship.
The hurt from loving them when you do leave is almost more at times than I can bare and some days I feel like I will never heal but I have to. I just focus on the days before he came in my life and what life was like for me! I remember when every weekend was fun and enjoyable. It seems to help. Right now each weekend is aweful, and hurtful. AND THIS TO SHALL PASS!

"If it doesn't start with the addict, the spouse can't heal". I'm sorry, but this is a false belief. No one is responsible for anyone else's recovery and that's probably the first rule of recovery. Handing over the responsibility to someone else NEVER works. Those who do that will remain in victim mode.
No one has to take blame for anything. Again, this is a false belief on the part of the addict that it's always someone else's fault that they are acting out. In fact, this is true of any kind of addict who is not in recovery. It's so much easier to hand over the responsibility to others and keeps them from taking responsibility for their actions.
No spouse ever has to take the blame for it nor depend on their addicted spouses to take responsibility for healing them.
I'm sorry you are in so much pain, but divorce in and of itself is very painful. Don't take on the added responsibility of sharing the blame for someone else's action. It's not your fault nor is it any of our faults. Your H had a serious addiction long before you met him and apparently he has chosen to stay that way. Good for youA for moving forward and yes, this too shall pass:)
Also, fun times will come again!

That's true Wach. It's hard bc there is impt info missing here. He made commitments and you made boundaries. Did he, is he working some type of recovery program? Are/were you? Is it a slip or as in my case my h was acting out with other people? If my h slips with porn that is not a deal breaker but if he acts out with another person that is a deal breaker. And the further into recovery I see that everything is NOT black and white. There is a lot of gray area. Separation for example instead of just filing. Help worked very hard for a year trying to make recovery work and he chose not to find recovery. I will personally not live with an active addict. I know my limitations now and I would be sucked back into my own sickness and be drug down with him.
I do feel your pain 2 songs. I think you know we all do here. In this crisis, an hour at a time and we are all here for you.

"If it doesn't start with the addict, the spouse can't heal". I'm sorry, but this is a false belief.

help: Absolutely a false belief, wachit is right. Don't believe those words for a second. If you do, you are holding yourself back and you can blame no one else for your lack of movement out of this pain. I understand this is a very painful part of your journey, but it doesn't last forever. It gets better.

It didn't start with you, but yes, if affects you. But you are not a victim. You don't have to just survive this, you can thrive because of this.

One thing I have learned that grief is part of recovery and it is a process that can last a long time. However, suffering doesn't have to be part of that process. I agree with what Wants says that although the addiction didn't begin with us or is because of us, it does impact us and we have to deal with that trauma, but we don't just have to survive because of it, but thrive because of recovery.

I don't wish to detract from the original topic and the support & understanding that 2Songs is looking for here.

A small point.....please be respectful that we are not all in the same place emotionally, and some spouses are not ready to hear what is right or wrong, from those whom may be further along in recovery.
Help is feeling very vulnerable right now as she is going through a massive trauma in her life, she is struggling to just breathe through each day. She is going through feelings common in the Crisis & Shock Stages of Recovery. She is upset that she has shared her feelings and that they have been analyzed and told what she is thinking is wrong. With all the trauma she is facing, any attempts to tell her that what she is thinking or feeling is an error....feels like an attack.
Again Help, as i said via PM, what you have to say is worthy, for they are your true raw feelings, and your point of view on this is valuable for others to see, and learn from, if they find themselves in a similar situation. I see other contributors thought they were being helpful and sharing their point of view on your feelings and thought they were helping by directing you towards what they term as a possible error in thinking, maybe they thought they were helping you towards healing by pointing this out?
It is possible compassion should have been more applied here, especially knowing and respecting how fragile you are right now. You are going through alot of trauma and it felt like an attack. I do not think they were being deliberately malicious, and will be horrified to know you are hurting from their words.
So please don't leave us.

It is true that some of us are further along in recovery, and are interested in other points of view to help with our individual healing and growth. But to all, just be mindful and respectful that not everybody is in a place to hear this, sometimes they just want compassion and understanding.

Very important we are respectful of the recovery stages we each find ourselves in.

Let me know if this okay Help :)

Hoping to get this discussion back on track for 2Songs......I have found her original "My Story" to help us understand her situation more and to help us support her through this.........................

Reply #46 - 06/10/10.............
My story. Short and sweet, all the same.

We would be together now going on 9 yrs soon, married for 6 yrs soon. We have 3 beautiful children under 7. I feel that I alone gave them life. That is another story. I just recently realized that he's been looking at porn the entire time we've been together. Thinking about it still makes me cry. What we've been through, what I did to sacrafice for him, for the children, for the family. I was working 6 nights a week, pregnant, putting him through school at one point during his "high" period. Some time later, he's been in recovery. Seeing a SA therapist, both reading bookds, me seeing therapist, him joining SA group, me joining COSA group. I don't know if we will survive this, but I am determined to succeed this because of my c hildren. They need a role model figure in their life. They need a mother. I have learned to not keep this family together because of him, but becuase of us..

Oh 2 songbirds. I hate that you're going through this. You are strong, smart, and have a wonderful heart. You will come through this intact, and you will make the best decisions you can make for your situation. I have faith in you :-)

And Mammy, your prayer was beautiful.

Hi Trina,

I just wanted to second what you pointed out so eloquently here.

You know ladies I am guilty of being righteously angry, sensitive, just trying somehow to survive under what seems like nGodly pressure.

And if it was not for the Holy spirit within me helping me to carry this burden that only Gods were ment to carry I can tell you I never would hive survive.

I am also guilty of hitting that high point in recovery and sometimes comming back to the SOs group was a real bumper. My knee jerk reaction was just to tell everybody to get on with their lives. But then in those moments of hast I would take a deap breath and close my eyes. I would conjure up those days of discovery like a hidden pearl of wisdom and I would cry. I would cry for this new found love of myself, I would cry for what may be, I would cry for my dear friends who were experiencing such excruciating pain yet I could do nothing to fix it. All of the sudden I would be compelled to pour out my compassion and understanding just in some small way hoping that I may be able to carry a small bucket of tears for my dear friend and relieve a small amount of their burden.

The first thought you may have is why would I torture myself so. Well actually I would later find that I was relieved. Relieved to revisit the past so I would not make the mistake so many successful ancients had made by forgetting where they came from just before they come crashing down by forgetting the past.

I was relieved to come upon stumbling blocks or triggers so i could discuss it and heal it with the help of my H. I was relieved to have shown compassion for someone in pain so as to ease their recover. Yes there is a time to be brutal but when someone is in pain due to something that was not of their own doing or within their control this blunt retoric is not needed yet. In this pain we say all kinds of things like for me I wanted to kill him, I wasn't lifting a finger to do recovery, after all it was his mess, you'd better not call me a €%£#¥%@ codependant if you know what's good for you! He killed the happiness inside. ......Yes these are allndirect quotes from my earliest days of discovery. And to be honest whenever we rediscover a full blown relapse for many of us ithe pain is no different from those first days of discovery. The only difference is we have tools. So in reality while Help was feeling a bit of a victim this is understandable but what we can applaud Help for is her perseverance, independence and true grit any of us would want in this terrible trauma. I seldom see this type of perseverance from an SO going it alone but they are out there. Many statistic report that while recovery is very possible for her she will have a much harder time than the rest of us who have supportive mates. So in that light I always see Help, even in her weakest states an inspiration.

One last thing and I will try to let this discussion get back on track for 2 songs....

strait from Pia Melodies mouth in her last workshop we did she stated to another couple, when you say..."I'm sorry BUT...." What thie otter person is hearing is that you really are not sorry for them since they are making oboes mistakes. what I heard was...."I'm sorry BUT, stop being a victim or you will bring us all down. Get over it!" AIn that light I know you guys will be as Trina put it horrified to find out this was hurtful as I know this is not what you ment to say. a couple of times I was guilty of the same while in this high place but often those were times where I only had a short time to reply and did not take the time to think out what I was going to say.

I love all of you and hope we can work through this pain as all intimate relationships will have growing pains.

Hug,

Lorilou