I'm back to weigh in on this issue. There are no black and white answers, as much they would make us feel safe and comfortable.
For those that don't know me, my husband just passed his first year of sobriety and recovery. I also passed my first year of healing from the injury that's been done to me by the acting out.
He was first diagnosed after my discovery 4 years ago. However, he had a "false recovery" meaning, he was caught, had to stop, and had to adopt a form of recovery. But at that time, neither of us understood it, accepted it, or educated ourselves on the condition, and neither of us -- repeat: NEITHER of us "embraced recovery". And so he relapsed. A year ago I discovered it, and at that time, became a warrior for my family against SA (see my avatar, gun included!)
I think sometimes we are saying the same words, (recovery) but they mean something very different in each situation. There are differing degrees of recovery. Recovery in the first week looks very different than recovery in the 6th month, and so on.
Recovery is a misleading word. I think what we're looking for is "remission."
Re: the "5% recovery rate" there is simply no data to back up that claim. Every time it's pulled out, I ask for a source and there is none. I'd love to see the data, because if it's 5%, I want to know the truth. I've asked my therapists, (2 who are certified in SA, and keep their education up to date) They are not aware of any realiable, double-blind, peer reviewed statistics on this. "5% is someone's best guess that has been repeated through the SA culture like a virus. The disease/condition and it's treatment is too new, and the studies have not been done or completed. So if I'm wrong about this, please do enlighten me as to where I can find the data!
Maybe it's where we live, that we have excellent gifted therapists, but if you were to ask me based on my indepth experience with SA, I would say that complete "remission" or recovery is absolutely possible for a life time. Every week my husband goes to meetings with 8-10 guys who are in varying stages of recovery, most of them have been in recovery for 10+ years without a relapse.
I sit my my SANON meetings with their wives, and we greet newbies every so often. In the nearest urban cities, there are gatherings and "Open Meetings" with break out sessions, where people have been in recovery for 20+ years are there, sharing their stories of recovery. It's very encouraging!
So, from my experience, recovery and life long remission is possible and very probable, if that's the goal.
"None could say any different." I do have to say different. I may well the only one currently on this particular forum who can say different and really believe different. My husband has not continued those behaviors. And he doesn't even support them. But then, his behavior and his thoughts about the behavior were challenged, discussed, explored, and corrected. I think that anyone can change who really wants to. They have to be willing to discuss the reasons why they believe the behavior is acceptable and beneficial to them personally. And, they have to come to realize what those behavior create both inside themselves, and how they affect the other parts of their lives. They have to embrace something that they personally feel is of greater value than the benefit of the behavior. And, I think that a person has to come to believe something other than they did believe. They did what they did because the beliefs they held internally allowed for that behavior. When those beliefs change, the behavior changes.
This is not a drug addiction where the brain becomes physically relient on a drug. It is a belief addiction, where one relies on beliefs that support the behavior. If there is no internal support for the behavior, the behavior collapses on itself. How can one do something that they personally have come to believe is a detriment to them and their happiness? They may well do things that they believe "are" a benefit to them and their happiness and disregard what that brings otherwise. But, when they really get that they are making their own unhappiness and that their beliefs supported a false outcome, then it is very different.
If I believed, myself, that it is impossible for my husband to ever believe otherwise, and that those things would remain as an internal benefit to him, I'd have to set him free. But, I know, that I have personally changed my beliefs about certain things in my life. And, when I did, those things held "no" attraction for me at all. I look at them from an entirely different perspective. I know that they were not, and could never be a benefit to me or my happiness. So, they aren't attractive. And, because I do know that about myself, I can allow that it is "possible" if not "probable" for him.
As far as a beautiful woman becoming distasteful, I don't think that's ever likely. But, ignoring basic, biological response is not only possible, but relatively easy, if one chooses to ignore it. I don't expect my husband to become asexual. I do expect that he realize where he wants to extend his sexual energy. And, I do expect that he ignore biological twinges...just like I do. I don't expect that I would ever see an attractive man as something other than attractive. But, I do expect that I would ignore that attractiveness...as I have made a choice about how I live my life and with whom. That is what I expect of my H. One can't really prevent a bird from flying over their heads. But, they can prevent allowing it to light there.
For those that don't know me, my husband just passed his first year of sobriety and recovery. I also passed my first year of healing from the injury that's been done to me by the acting out.
He was first diagnosed after my discovery 4 years ago. However, he had a "false recovery" meaning, he was caught, had to stop, and had to adopt a form of recovery. But at that time, neither of us understood it, accepted it, or educated ourselves on the condition, and neither of us -- repeat: NEITHER of us "embraced recovery". And so he relapsed. A year ago I discovered it, and at that time, became a warrior for my family against SA (see my avatar, gun included!)
I think sometimes we are saying the same words, (recovery) but they mean something very different in each situation. There are differing degrees of recovery. Recovery in the first week looks very different than recovery in the 6th month, and so on.
Recovery is a misleading word. I think what we're looking for is "remission."
Re: the "5% recovery rate" there is simply no data to back up that claim. Every time it's pulled out, I ask for a source and there is none. I'd love to see the data, because if it's 5%, I want to know the truth. I've asked my therapists, (2 who are certified in SA, and keep their education up to date) They are not aware of any realiable, double-blind, peer reviewed statistics on this. "5% is someone's best guess that has been repeated through the SA culture like a virus. The disease/condition and it's treatment is too new, and the studies have not been done or completed. So if I'm wrong about this, please do enlighten me as to where I can find the data!
Maybe it's where we live, that we have excellent gifted therapists, but if you were to ask me based on my indepth experience with SA, I would say that complete "remission" or recovery is absolutely possible for a life time. Every week my husband goes to meetings with 8-10 guys who are in varying stages of recovery, most of them have been in recovery for 10+ years without a relapse.
I sit my my SANON meetings with their wives, and we greet newbies every so often. In the nearest urban cities, there are gatherings and "Open Meetings" with break out sessions, where people have been in recovery for 20+ years are there, sharing their stories of recovery. It's very encouraging!
So, from my experience, recovery and life long remission is possible and very probable, if that's the goal.
This is not a drug addiction where the brain becomes physically relient on a drug. It is a belief addiction, where one relies on beliefs that support the behavior. If there is no internal support for the behavior, the behavior collapses on itself. How can one do something that they personally have come to believe is a detriment to them and their happiness? They may well do things that they believe "are" a benefit to them and their happiness and disregard what that brings otherwise. But, when they really get that they are making their own unhappiness and that their beliefs supported a false outcome, then it is very different.
If I believed, myself, that it is impossible for my husband to ever believe otherwise, and that those things would remain as an internal benefit to him, I'd have to set him free. But, I know, that I have personally changed my beliefs about certain things in my life. And, when I did, those things held "no" attraction for me at all. I look at them from an entirely different perspective. I know that they were not, and could never be a benefit to me or my happiness. So, they aren't attractive. And, because I do know that about myself, I can allow that it is "possible" if not "probable" for him.
As far as a beautiful woman becoming distasteful, I don't think that's ever likely. But, ignoring basic, biological response is not only possible, but relatively easy, if one chooses to ignore it. I don't expect my husband to become asexual. I do expect that he realize where he wants to extend his sexual energy. And, I do expect that he ignore biological twinges...just like I do. I don't expect that I would ever see an attractive man as something other than attractive. But, I do expect that I would ignore that attractiveness...as I have made a choice about how I live my life and with whom. That is what I expect of my H. One can't really prevent a bird from flying over their heads. But, they can prevent allowing it to light there.