It sounds to me more like you are in denial about it. So having said that, perhaps you need to explore why you would accept this behavior as "boys being boys". What is it about you that thinks you should accept this? Are you afraid of being alone? Is it better to be with an SA than being alone? Do you not believe that you deserve a healthy and intimate relationship?

Once you are able to sort out these things for yourself, then you will be better equpped to know what is right for you and you alone.

What I have learned is that for me any kind of behavior that attempts to skew my core value system isn't healthy for me and lowers my frequency and I am not able to make good choices for myself. This is where I am in my own recovery from trauma and co-dependency.

Also, just understand that anything can become an addiction. It is estimated that 97% of the world's population is probably addicted to something. Anything that takes you out of your bodily feelings because those feelings are too overwhelming to deal with can become an addiction and that definitely includes sx, prn, mb and anythning else sxual.

Finally, you say that this is your second relationship of such. I take that to mean that you are in your second relationship with a sx addict. This is not uncommon for women who have low self esteem and who believe that they can "fix" other people. We have no such power or control over others and once we learn to put the focus back on ourselves and rebuild our own value system based on what is in our highest regard, we will make better choices for o ourselves.

Also, you use the word "fighting" which sounds like you are in resistance over something. What are you really fighting? Where is your resistance? It's not about someone else's addiction I can tell you that. It has something to do with yourself so go inward and begin to seek answers and heal yourself. Blessings!

Well written Wach! I had an interesting therapy session this week over something relating to this. Thought I would share since it is on topic.

We were watching a show that had a pediphile priest. My h grew up Catholic and his father pretty much quit the church when all of the huge scandals on the cover ups came out many years ago. There was a comment on the show about whether people "like that" can get better or should they be locked up forever. My h said they should lock him up and throw away the key! He was an offender....HMMMMMMMM.....
OK here is my thought process now: I have spent three years coming to terms with this being an addiction. I have read no less than twenty books on the topic. Carnes says there are three levels of sexual addiction and my h being with prostitutes and doing massage parlors and strippers is in the level two category. This priest would be in the level three category because that is mainly illegal acts such as rape, incest, etc...
I am relating this process in my therapy session because "Does my h really believe it is an addiction? BC if he did then he would have compassion for this addict who felt tremendous shame on the show. or is his attitude one of "Boys will be boys"? Is he using the addiction theory to hide behind? Why can't he transfer the character to his own situation? He fails to transfer many situations to his life bc he has compartmentalized it so. (EX: his boss lied to him repeatedly and he is appalled at what a horrible low life the boss is) See what I mean? These attitudes create fear in me that what I am seeing with my h is again not reality. That led me into another area that I am struggling with now after three years into this that I will bring up in another post after the holidays. I just wonder though if lack of transference is a stage in the addictive recovery or is it lack of acceptance for who he really is and he is in denial??? Just raised a lot of questions for me and I know if I discussed it with my h he would say I am making too much out of it, it was just an off the cuff comment.....there have been several of those. I believe he is being very shallow in his recovery instead of digging deep to really see reality. I believe my antennas are sharp though HAHA

I can't say that I blame it on addiction. Seems to me like people who are addicted...know they are addicted. I think a heroin addict knows they are addicted. I think a crack addict knows they are addicted. These guys don't quite seem to know they are addicted? I do think that if they started it very early in life they have trained themselves, habitualized, Pavolv's dogged themselves into certain behaviors...with a lot of help from this promiscuous society we live in. And, throughout the ages, men have been in the driver's seat, so they gave themselves lots of benefits they don't allow for women. If I had behaved as my H did, he would have had a virtual fit! Do they know it's wrong? I know my H did. Else he wouldn't have hidden it. He also knew it was going to create some serious marital problems if I found it. He was ever so right!

"Boys will be boys." True. I do believe they will...if they can....and get away with it. I also think some people will steal...if they can get away with it...or any other thing that is injurious to others...if they can get away with it. My H said virtually that..."it's just men's curiosity." Well, I asked him what should be done about women's "curiosity" then? Just because we don't allow for that justification...doesn't mean we're impervious. I asked him if he might try treating me like an equal? I am human...just like him. I am curious...just like him. But, there is a difference...I have a different level of commitment...and I take it seriously. I let him know that I expect the same. Perhaps the hookers are just "girls?"

Whatever my husband says, lets me know what he thinks. He says, what he thinks. He "thought" that men and women were "far" different. He learned...in real time...they are...and they're not. He thought a lot of things that weren't true.

I just wonder though if lack of transference is a stage in the addictive recovery or is it lack of acceptance for who he really is and he is in denial???

I think this is a two-fold problem. The first has to do with shame. I believe that all SAs have deep, deep shame. Until their shame is fully healed and I believe that this takes many years of going inward and healing all past wounds, then it is unlikely that they will have any compassion for another addict.

I also believe that for those addicts who are stage one or two, they cannot relate to those who have sx with children and for them this is serious bottom-line behavior that requires swift action in order to protect children. Perhaps they believe that these addicts cannot be healed or recovered so this is why your H holds such a strong opinion.

What I am finding for myself is how important it is for me not to judge others even if I cannot have compassion for them. If I do find myself judging, then all I can do is just be aware that this is what I am doing for now as I have not fully healed my own wounds and that I still have much work to do.

I can't say that I blame it on addiction. Seems to me like people who are addicted...know they are addicted. I think a heroin addict knows they are addicted. I think a crack addict knows they are addicted. These guys don't quite seem to know they are addicted?

I wonder why you feel this way. Why is it important to place blame on anything at all having to do with this addiction. Blameful and judgmental behavior by the way can also be a form of addiction.

I don't know what you mean to "place blame." What do you mean place blame? I accept facts for facts. I know he did it...so there is no placement or judgment needed. And it appears that anything can be entitled addiction these days. Ever seen a dope addict? They appear to be exactly what they are. I didn't need to guess about whether or not my H husband behaved as he did....I saw it. What do you mean by judging? The only judgment I feel any need to make is whether or not the behavior is acceptable to me personally. I feel like I do have to judge what is good for me and what is not. If I need to get from point A to B, and there is a short cut down a dark alley, I do have to make a personal judgment call on whether or not it's worth the risk to take it. I can't very well judge what is best for my H to do....that is his responsibility to take. I do have to judge what might be best for me to do given my personal feelings, circumstances, and possible outcomes. If I failed to take all information into consideration, I feel like I would be failing to take care of myself. That is a kind of judgment...yes? And, as I said, as far as blame...there is none needed...I do know the facts.

So, what do you mean?

I worry that calling it an addiction makes me feel guilty that I should stay with this poor addicted creature while he gets help to overcome his "addiction". Can it just be a character flaw? Can it just be that this guy is a sick f*^k that is just broken? I've set my boundaries, etc. but I'm still not sure I want to be with someone that lied to me so much. I know that drug addicts and alcoholics etc. can be in recovery and lead very successful, meaningful lives and have wonderful healthy relationships. I feel like I would be more supportive of a substance abuse addiction while I feel that my husband is just a cheating, lying asshole. Yes he has all the signs and symptoms of what I read sexual addiction is, but I'm not sure if I want to give him another chance. I feel terrible saying that, but I'm not sure I really care about his problems anymore. It's too exhausting.

" My H said virtually that..."it's just men's curiosity." Oh Sheen, that's what my husband said too. He said sometimes his curiosity just gets the best of him! Oh that sounds so nice, just natural curiousity! Then he told me he was addicted to fantasy sex, because real sex takes too much work. Yes it takes work to be in an intimate relationship with someone with real feelings and you might have to think about pleasing them. So much work! (insert sarcasm). There was a list of things I wrote that I needed if we were to stay together. One was that you have to show me affection. Hug me for no reason, kiss me for no reason, not just to initate sex. He told me he couldn't do it. It would be really hard and next to impossible.

I'm sorry Last....yes...it is exhausting. I could never quite feel like my H was a "poor addicted creature." I guess I'm just not that empathetic. I know that my Xh was just as "poor." What I found is that his plethora of "addictions" were hurting "me." He had sexual problems...cheater...drug problems...prescription...and he was also a rage "addict." Which meant that "I" got abused.

Ultimately, the only thing that mattered was "I" got abused. Now...it "is" sad that his life is pure Hell "perhaps" caused by his mistreatment in youth. But....transferring his particular Hell onto me was not acceptable to "me." So, rather than tolerate any more of his abusive rage fits....as in beating me...I divorced him. Now, that might seem to be a "little" different scenario, but, abuse is abuse.

My current H abused my feelings...my emotions...and my life. So, he got the same regard as my X...or anyone else. I let him know without doubt...you "will" stop this abuse....or I will divorce you too. See....even addicts quit when they choose to live. So, I got to see whether or not he chose to live. Because, if he made the wrong choice for his life....he was definitely going to suffer the consequences of the choices. Just like a dope addict knows...if they don't quit...the consequences come due...usually death. And, if my H failed to quit...his consequences came due...a divorce. Choice? Entirely his. If decent living, honest marriage, wasn't enough value for him to quit...then he would continue till the consequence. And...with my blessings...just like my X. I wish him no harm or foul....but "I" don't choose to live the consequences of "his" choices. Hope he's happy...as I am "far" happier without his presence in my life. I think though I felt he was quite "poor" he felt quite satisfied?

So, nope...didn't wait...or wait. What he got was "my" truth....you stop now...or you take your abuse elsewhere where it may be better received than here. Because "I" will not tolerate this abuse of my feelings, emotions, or life....period. So, take it or leave it. Marriage or not? Follow the same path for any "reason" or "excuse" whatsoever....even once again that I am aware of...and you will immediately suffer the consequences "you" have chosen. The addict....chose. The addict....quit....like any other addict of any kind that quits....quit...means quit...not try.

Yes! quit means quit..not try! That's perfect! I still think in my husband's case it's a character flaw and not addiction, or if it is addiction I don't give a poop.

"hug me for no reason....kiss me for no reason....hard and next to impossible..." Well, that would be information worth keeping...for me. Because...for me...if it's hard and next to impossible to be treated like a cherished mate....then I have no desire to be there. I'm not sure what the benefit would be? And, if he was so blasted lazy (though I'm sure this "was" true of my H in times past) he can't even perform the function of a man...then...whew...mmmmm...tooo bad...for "him." Best stay in his imaginary world where he can pay to play...with himself...or even pay for someone else to tolerate his selfish disregard? Isn't that what prostitutes do.....accept pay from an insensitive brute? It seems to me that many do that because they are so selfish and brutish...that they "must" pay to be tolerated...at all!

And, "I" require much more than that? And there is "no" exchange in money, other benefits, or anything else, that will interest me in giving up my body, or my feelings to a brute! No thanks! And, if it's hard and next to impossible for him to act like a loving husband.....he has "little" idea how "very" impossible it is for me to live in that scenario? But, he was sure to discover that truth! My H learned about the "reAL" world! As in...you "will" treat "me" like a cherished "lady" in your life, or you "will" find yourself quite alone. And....you are "quite" welcome to "pay" anyone else to put up with you...hope you find it cheap. And, I will live...my way.

Actually Sheen you were the one that used the word blame in your original post. I take that to mean that you are looking to blame something or someone for their actions. That's what I meant by blame.

I just want to say that it takes a great deal of compassion to understand people and their addictions and as I stated previously, almost everyone has their addictions or their need to escape their own core pain,
I do feel that this is a very hot button for a lot of the spouses on here who are struggling with their H's addiction, recovery and their own issues with low self esteem and such.

It is certainly still a trigger for me and I acknowledge this about myself and will try (yes I will try meaning I am working on myself) to bring compassion to myself and to everyone else on this forum who still struggles with heartache, and other core emotions.

I have to say, a lot of things came out of this thread for me, the OP to think about. As for this being my 2nd relationship of such...I wasn't ever looking for anyone to "fix", nor to fix myself. Quite the opposite. I've always been drawn to secure, strong men who in reality hid this addiction from me.

As for "boys will be boys", that's the idea that we are brought up to believe, and I was also told by a close friend a couple years ago.

Men's curiousity factor...that's one my H tried explaining to me. Something new, exciting, he was "CURIOUS" about. That's when I told him that oh yes, I've gotten bored in our relationship, but I never had to go such extremes. It was a phase for me that passed.

I referred to fighting as this life long battle that we are both in now. His addiction recovery, and mine supporting him through it. However, this addiction is one that rocks us to the core.

I do have insecurities. They were brought upon the feeling of not being worthy enough, or just enough in general to satisfy my partner's (visual) needs.

So, I'm asking...do we blame all of this on the idea that it's their addiction that causes this taboo, or do we put the blame all on a "taboo" because how it makes us feel (insecure, worthless,etc)? Is it really an unacceptable behavior, or do we point to the behavior because we need to assert the blame of our own insecurities? Some couples view porn and such as acceptable, normal, and healthy; for others it is not

So, I'm asking...do we blame all of this on the idea that it's their addiction that causes this taboo, or do we put the blame all on a "taboo" because how it makes us feel (insecure, worthless,etc)? Is it really an unacceptable behavior, or do we point to the behavior because we need to assert the blame of our own insecurities? Some couples view porn and such as acceptable, normal, and healthy; for others it is not

It feels to me like you are both struggling with the idea that your H's problem is caused by an addiction. I take it he is not in recovery. If this is the case, then your own thinking is probably distorted. This happens when a spouse is living with an addict who is actively acting out. I can remember being in complete denial that there was really anything wrong with my marriage. I remember thinking that I was probably being too judgmental.

I almost feel like you want to throw in the towel and just call it a day. Let him have his prn and I'll just adjust to it. If you can't beat 'em, join 'em. I know for a fact for every one spouse who comes here looking for help, there are probably hundreds who don't because of just this attitude. They will look the other way and just pretend that this is their "normal" and that this is something they should accept because that's what guys do.

It's better to blame it on your insecurities then expect him to take the blame for how you feel. This isn't about blame though. This is about someone finally taking responsibility for the fact that they use sx in any form to escape their own insecurities, their own fears, their own very uncomfortable and overwhelming feelings that probably extend all the way back to their childhood.

To be honest with you, this really is a huge trigger for me. I know what addiction looks like and I also know how it made me feel. I know what healthy recovery looks like and I know how that makes me feel and all I can say is addiction or no addiction, I will always choose the latter.

I do hope and pray that you find your way through your own personal struggles with this and you are truly struggling. You want to be done with it somehow and I can feel how much you want that. Please stay connected to your higher self and tune in to how this really makes you feel at the core. That will help guide you to make the best choice for you whatever that may be. God bless!

Watch: Thanks for your thoughts and sentiment as always. I don't know what blame means in this context...or really any other context...unless one is being blamed for something they didn't do. I don't think there is any blame in accepting what a person has done and letting them bear the burden of that doing. Where is the error there? I don't quite get that yet.

I can understand and agree that the feelings this outside of self behavior evokes is for me to deal with. There is no one who can deal with it but me. I had to and have to determine the overall affect on me personally...as I am the only one who knows how I feel, what I can or will tolerate and what I am willing to do about the way I feel. I thought that was taking responsibility for myself. Is it not?

I am not one who is willing to allow...or look away...or tolerate...or adjust...or accept...something that instills unhappiness in "my" life. So, I can only make myself clear, set my boundaries, and enforce them. As far as insecure....everyone is insecure in one way or another. But, whether or not the overall feeling is insecure...I'm not so sure of that. And who is secure? And how does that affect the overall feeling in regard to these situations?

I can say this though....finding my feelings...and my resolutions was the first thing on my agenda. Then determining what to do next. Stating my feelings, expressing my intentions was next. Waiting for his response to my needs and feeling following. In my particular case, my H chose to address the behavior that created the discontent in the marriage. He came to understand the overall affect on the marriage and to make a choice about which was most beneficial for him. And, as far as myself...I did what I can do, which is be honest, give him a choice, and accept that choice. Had he chosen to ignore my "relationship" needs, I personally could not have continued the marriage for many reasons. And, even when his choice was made, it took a lot more time for me to determine the damage to my marital feelings, and to make my choices where marriage was the issue. Mainly, because it was my feelings getting the battering...not his. So, whether or not I could "recover" good feelings about the marriage was a time test for me. And, to discover that...took a lot of time. And, it took a lot of of willingness to probe how I really felt about all of it on any given day. With much time, I am happy with the marriage now. So, the wait was worth the effort. Sometimes it isn't. Only the recipient can determine at any given time whether or not it "may" be worth the emotional distress.