Wolfie: Rings very true. I often forget to be ever so grateful for parents who did present me with a basic set of moral values. Not that I didn't break them along the way. I did. Just had to test the theory? HA! And, I found out that "I" "really" don't like that feeling or the outcome at all....so I quit it...post haste. But....even things that I wasn't taught, I had a feeling inside me that posted a "caution" sign. I learned that when I ignored that, bad things happened. Bad things happened....and that proved what I'd heard already. I reallllllly didn't like that either. Whew...found that I don't like a lot of things....HA!

So, I "do" "really" understand how those who have been taught few valuable things, and lots of "in"valuable" things (ha), are at a "huge" disadvantage....and it's sad to me. But, I "know" that internal voice is there if one just heeds it. Anyone knows that lying is harmful. Even if they never heard it said. My H knew to hide his behavior because the outcome wouldn't be good....for him. I didn't have to tell him that. I know there's an internal cautionary voice, because I've heard it, and ignored it at times....as well as heeded it lots of times. Nothing like real life experience to catch ones attention? And I know that he had one too, because he hid, and lied. If he didn't find it wrong, he would have done neither of those things.

As far as other people's support for wrongdoing, they were always obvious to me, and their advice summarily discarded. I don't find it necessary to conform. Just lucky I guess...wasn't taught that. I found it far easier to see it on "display" than to hear that small internal cautionary bell. All I had to say was "Oh behave!" HA! At times though, I ignored that caution too...and what a huge error that is!!!!!! Won't happen again. Got my ear to the ground and my eyes wide open. I listen for it. I don't like the results if I don't.

My H was much like you describe...a teeny...in an old body. He got a powerful wakeup call...couldn't miss it though making valient effort. He shared much of what you're sharing. And oh, how it cost him....all of those underground aberrations and escalations. I am so grateful that it isn't me. I wouldn't walk in that man's shoes for all the tea in China. What a set of decisions to bear! I could say that I "almost" but not "quite" feel abundant empathy for him. I do have some empathy, but not to any great degree. Just enough to figure, well, now you're out in the open, whether or not you chose to be, and you can never, ever go back. But, if you choose you can change your life now, the decisions are "all" yours. And if you don't you already know the cost, I don't have to enlighten you.

See, he shared with me as you did here, and lots, lots more. That's a good thing. At least he no longer had to bear his chaos in silence. I told him, might as well spill it now, the damage is already done, there is nothing to gain by silence any longer. I already know, so there is no gain to be had. At the very least you can be proud of telling the truth...and that's a beginning.

My H didn't share any of these things with his friends, not in any open manner anyway. See, he knew it was a bad thing all along, so no one knew, until there was no escape from it....no lie sufficient...no silence golden. Caught, dead to rights, with no escape possible. And that...was likely the very best thing that ever happened to him. It certainly was for me.

I do feel empathy enough for anyone to say this "no one can stop you from quitting if that's what "you" want to do.

Addiction be it sex, drugs, food etc is always about "escape" altering our consciousness to avoid feelings and thoughts we don't wish to deal with. Drug addicts typically escalate because of tolerance -more is needed to get same effect. Sex addiction also alters brain chemistry but is more psychologically driven. When my relationship ended my porn addiction dramatically increased and continued until I hit bottom.I finally came to realize it was killing me, my spirit. I went to SAA and found daily strength.
While I came here to find support for my porn addiction, after a few months I found myself spending more and more time at the sexual abuse and incest forums and after a lifetime fighting it I finally came out of denial and began to openly talk about and deal with the sexual abuse from childhood, Within a relatively short period of time, I realized the compulsion and desire to look at porn was gone...completely. The compulsion that had driven me my whole life that I allowed to ruin relationships and run my life was just gone It's now been 4 years and I have zero interest in porn. It's crystal clear that porn was but a symptom my real issue was the sexual abuse.. it was the fuel. Once I dealt with the force behind it, the symptom left. Makes me wonder what percentage of sex addicts are really sexual abuse survivors who have just been able to confront it?

Sadave: Congratulations! Glad to hear that you found the underlying cause and addressed it. That is a tough thing to do.

Well, this day had to come sooner or later. The day that I disagreed with Wolfie about something. We couldn't agree on everything right? :)

I disagree that most men are like little boys. I don't think most men who are afflicted by this get their jollies off of hiding it from their spouses. I think they either feel bad that they should have to hide, or they hide it because they are so ashamed.

I will agree that men are not taught to deal with their emotion. When a man shows emotion he is regarded as weak and thus not a man. Which is why the suicide rate among men is much much higher than women. That being said, I wouldn't call us all little boys. But rather emotionally crippled men. Because they feelings of shame are very adult. The pain that comes from not knowing how to deal with emotions is very adult.

I, luckily, discarded our societies notions of masculinity and femininity at a very young age. So I was spared a lot of that turmoil. Yet I became addicted to porn anyways. And I did because porn can addict anyone. It need not have any one cause. You can be a totally healthy individual with no issues with being abused, or being immature, or anything like that. Addiction to porn has no prerequisites. Although some conditions make an individual more susceptible. It's addicting simply because, in men especially, it's a drug. And a drug that no one really knows is a drug, until it's too late. Nobody ever told me porn could be addicting, I didn't learn that until I was an addict to it. I'd never even heard of anything close to it.

I've always been very mature when it comes to sex. My brothers and friends would go out to bars and clubs and objectify women and ask me why I wasn't going home with girl A or girl B and I told them because she was stupid or she was shallow or there was no connection. They would immediately ask for my "man card" because men fuck hot chicks, no matter what. I was like that as a teenager. Yet I still became addicted to porn. So I reject the notion that immaturity is what fuels this addiction. I don't think it helps it. Immaturity doesn't help anything. But I don't think immaturity plays any more of a role in this than in anything else.

The X factor for me was ignorance. I really like whiskey. But I'm not an alcoholic. Why? Because I know if I indulge in it too much, I'll get addicted. I knew that since I was a kid because of my family history. I didn't watch porn with any frequency until I was 18. And no one ever told me it was dangerous, like they told me alcohol was dangerous. If I had known, I would have limited my indulgence, like I have alcohol. Especially since the high i would get from porn was much much much more intense than the high I get from alcohol.

Hi again,

I gave this some more thought all this week. I played the addicts advocate on this because it seems that the recovery requires us somehow to proclaim there is an escalation without end. Its like we are honor bound to agree to that. It still doesnt set right with me. I had read that Charli had proclaimed that he would be dead if he hadnt quit. He wasnt specific and I always wondered what he had meant by that. Now I dont wonder what he meant. So in rethinking this again I can see that a sex addiction could lead to something else entirely. Suicide would be an example and killed by a prostitute would be another. Im so done playing the advocate now.

Wolf and Star<
I read the little boys analogy and I cant see where you two would be disagreeing at all. It looks like two different ways to say the same thing. Star? Can you read it again? I know you thought you had put one over on him but maybe you didnt so much. You could ask your girlfriend if she thinks she has to mother a little boy in you sometimes. I know its embarrassing, but maybe ask her anyway.

Dave,
I am really impressed with the work that you done. Was it the best work you ever did for yourself? I mean wow. I think you could help a whole bunch of us here. Would you? So you just went over to the "other groups" and introduced yourself? I already said wow.

Sheen,
The internal compass analogy is the answer that works best for me.

Shameless: Tell me more about the "internal compass?" I'm not familiar.

Hi again,
You really do write good topics Kelly. Can I say? I told yo

This topic wont stop cooking in my head. Its probably because its been rich in work for me and I have more answers now than I did even yesterday.
My newest thoughts on the escalation of sex addiction are this. At the rate I had been going I would have ended up in the arms and legs of another woman as sure as anything. In fact: even though it didnt happen; emotionally and mentally it was a done deal. I just kind of needed to go back and acknowledge that.

I had some needed dejavu with this. I hear thats been going around a lot.

SheenRe
You had asked me to tell you more about the internal compass . Yehit was you, all write, reply #8. Youre going have to be more careful about the little things you say, its so odd sometimes that they can help the most. Ha! Got yaUnless of course it was just a test to see if........

Aha Shameless....I meant yours.

Kelly,
I guess I cant help but say it after all. But, I told you so. ( Really really good topics.) Right this second you have the top two spots. Do you have any more concerns about fitting in here any more? Ear to ear grin for ya hon.

Hi SheenRe,
I came back to this topic to wonder some more about a persons Internal Compass. It sounded like you were asking me for my thoughts on it. See? Another great idea maker from you.

The first sense of a compass I get is that it isnt determined by degrees like a regular compass. But rather a lineal distance. That would mean either towards or away from me. If I look out along that straight line I can see what I will not do. The keywords would always be, Stop and Look. It might be more telling to wonder what happens if theres no stopping and looking. At this point I would have to reason that we are talking about an average person; by way of being a non psychopathic personality. I have found that for me, back in the day, when I didnt look and stop that I could absolutely have boundaries anyway. Sheen, you can probably tell by way of my ego that I had given myself permission to think what ever the hell I wanted. Whats so cool now is that, I can still do that. Go figure!
Okay then; so I have a bunch stakes that go out in a straight line ahead of me. Each stake has a label on it. Without my interference, there was written on each label, what I would refuse to do. All I had to do was go out and read the labels.

Why would this be important? Because, I had needed the starting place to go out and pull up some stakes and bring things back home. I have a song for you that describes that very moment. I could write all day and not say it better than this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvhrPMJe8LE

But what would a compass be without degrees? If I walked out a ways to a perpendicular location and look to see where my stakes are and were (to my left, to my right) then all the degrees are there in full view. It might even be a little bit how other people see me too.

I think it makes a good self-examination tool to use. (Internal Compass)
I just didnt have a name for it until you showed up. Thanks kiddo.

Shameless: I've found that my compass has a voice...a cautionary bell, if you will. If, and when, I ponder doing something, and I feel that twinge of caution, I know that I am stepping toward an internal boundary and that I need to ask myself some questions about a likely end product of taking that action.

I have a particular distaste for doing things that "I" don't respect, or that create feelings of guilt or shame. I have this thing about liking to feel good...about me...my decisions...my actions. So, if I think of doing something....that compass knows when I'm heading a direction that has the possibility of ending in guilt, shame, or injury. So, I listen. And find something to do that rings of pride and contentment. See, I'm "selfish" in that way. I really like to do things that I can feel proud of. Likely, another person will never ever see that compass at work, they only see the outcome of it, if they even see that. But "I" know...and that's what matters most.

That's one of the reasons I've shared here before, that my H and I have few outstanding differences (lots less these days). I have the same biology as he does. I am just as human. But, I am far more aware of the results of doing things that I am ashamed of. And, I think before I take action. (So does he these days) In that thinking time, my internal compass helps me make decisions about whether or not that action will lead a direction toward shame or justifiable pride. I reallllly like the latter, so I heed that cautionary voice....."most" all of the time.

In my past I didn't. And, I did some things I will never, ever forget, and that I will ever regret. However, I don't let that bug me too much. I learned to do better, and those memories only serve as an example of a lesson learned. For me, it's called listen and move a good direction. I can't undo do those old things....but I can place them in a parameter of that internal compass that indicates, um....that's a wrong direction....ends in shame.

The direction I take is far more important to me than anyone else. Because "I" "always" know what I do...and they may not. So, if "I" know that I am moving in directions to reach for pride of positive action, then they will also see that I have...in good time.

Shameless: I've found that my compass has a voice...a cautionary bell, if you will. If, and when, I ponder doing something, and I feel that twinge of caution, I know that I am stepping toward an internal boundary and that I need to ask myself some questions about a likely end product of taking that action.

I have a particular distaste for doing things that "I" don't respect, or that create feelings of guilt or shame. I have this thing about liking to feel good...about me...my decisions...my actions. So, if I think of doing something....that compass knows when I'm heading a direction that has the possibility of ending in guilt, shame, or injury. So, I listen. And find something to do that rings of pride and contentment. See, I'm "selfish" in that way. I really like to do things that I can feel proud of. Likely, another person will never ever see that compass at work, they only see the outcome of it, if they even see that. But "I" know...and that's what matters most.

That's one of the reasons I've shared here before, that my H and I have few outstanding differences (lots less these days). I have the same biology as he does. I am just as human. But, I am far more aware of the results of doing things that I am ashamed of. And, I think before I take action. (So does he these days) In that thinking time, my internal compass helps me make decisions about whether or not that action will lead a direction toward shame or justifiable pride. I reallllly like the latter, so I heed that cautionary voice....."most" all of the time.

In my past I didn't. And, I did some things I will never, ever forget, and that I will ever regret. However, I don't let that bug me too much. I learned to do better, and those memories only serve as an example of a lesson learned. For me, it's called listen and move a good direction. I can't undo do those old things....but I can place them in a parameter of that internal compass that indicates, um....that's a wrong direction....ends in shame.

The direction I take is far more important to me than anyone else. Because "I" "always" know what I do...and they may not. So, if "I" know that I am moving in directions to reach for pride of positive action, then they will also see that I have...in good time.

Shameless: I've found that my compass has a voice...a cautionary bell, if you will. If, and when, I ponder doing something, and I feel that twinge of caution, I know that I am stepping toward an internal boundary and that I need to ask myself some questions about a likely end product of taking that action.

I have a particular distaste for doing things that "I" don't respect, or that create feelings of guilt or shame. I have this thing about liking to feel good...about me...my decisions...my actions. So, if I think of doing something....that compass knows when I'm heading a direction that has the possibility of ending in guilt, shame, or injury. So, I listen. And find something to do that rings of pride and contentment. See, I'm "selfish" in that way. I really like to do things that I can feel proud of. Likely, another person will never ever see that compass at work, they only see the outcome of it, if they even see that. But "I" know...and that's what matters most.

That's one of the reasons I've shared here before, that my H and I have few outstanding differences (lots less these days). I have the same biology as he does. I am just as human. But, I am far more aware of the results of doing things that I am ashamed of. And, I think before I take action. (So does he these days) In that thinking time, my internal compass helps me make decisions about whether or not that action will lead a direction toward shame or justifiable pride. I reallllly like the latter, so I heed that cautionary voice....."most" all of the time.

In my past I didn't. And, I did some things I will never, ever forget, and that I will ever regret. However, I don't let that bug me too much. I learned to do better, and those memories only serve as an example of a lesson learned. For me, it's called listen and move a good direction. I can't undo do those old things....but I can place them in a parameter of that internal compass that indicates, um....that's a wrong direction....ends in shame.

The direction I take is far more important to me than anyone else. Because "I" "always" know what I do...and they may not. So, if "I" know that I am moving in directions to reach for pride of positive action, then they will also see that I have...in good time.

Shameless: I've found that my compass has a voice...a cautionary bell, if you will. If, and when, I ponder doing something, and I feel that twinge of caution, I know that I am stepping toward an internal boundary and that I need to ask myself some questions about a likely end product of taking that action.

I have a particular distaste for doing things that "I" don't respect, or that create feelings of guilt or shame. I have this thing about liking to feel good...about me...my decisions...my actions. So, if I think of doing something....that compass knows when I'm heading a direction that has the possibility of ending in guilt, shame, or injury. So, I listen. And find something to do that rings of pride and contentment. See, I'm "selfish" in that way. I really like to do things that I can feel proud of. Likely, another person will never ever see that compass at work, they only see the outcome of it, if they even see that. But "I" know...and that's what matters most.

That's one of the reasons I've shared here before, that my H and I have few outstanding differences (lots less these days). I have the same biology as he does. I am just as human. But, I am far more aware of the results of doing things that I am ashamed of. And, I think before I take action. (So does he these days) In that thinking time, my internal compass helps me make decisions about whether or not that action will lead a direction toward shame or justifiable pride. I reallllly like the latter, so I heed that cautionary voice....."most" all of the time.

In my past I didn't. And, I did some things I will never, ever forget, and that I will ever regret. However, I don't let that bug me too much. I learned to do better, and those memories only serve as an example of a lesson learned. For me, it's called listen and move a good direction. I can't undo do those old things....but I can place them in a parameter of that internal compass that indicates, um....that's a wrong direction....ends in shame.

The direction I take is far more important to me than anyone else. Because "I" "always" know what I do...and they may not. So, if "I" know that I am moving in directions to reach for pride of positive action, then they will also see that I have...in good time.

Shameless: I've found that my compass has a voice...a cautionary bell, if you will. If, and when, I ponder doing something, and I feel that twinge of caution, I know that I am stepping toward an internal boundary and that I need to ask myself some questions about a likely end product of taking that action.

I have a particular distaste for doing things that "I" don't respect, or that create feelings of guilt or shame. I have this thing about liking to feel good...about me...my decisions...my actions. So, if I think of doing something....that compass knows when I'm heading a direction that has the possibility of ending in guilt, shame, or injury. So, I listen. And find something to do that rings of pride and contentment. See, I'm "selfish" in that way. I really like to do things that I can feel proud of. Likely, another person will never ever see that compass at work, they only see the outcome of it, if they even see that. But "I" know...and that's what matters most.

That's one of the reasons I've shared here before, that my H and I have few outstanding differences (lots less these days). I have the same biology as he does. I am just as human. But, I am far more aware of the results of doing things that I am ashamed of. And, I think before I take action. (So does he these days) In that thinking time, my internal compass helps me make decisions about whether or not that action will lead a direction toward shame or justifiable pride. I reallllly like the latter, so I heed that cautionary voice....."most" all of the time.

In my past I didn't. And, I did some things I will never, ever forget, and that I will ever regret. However, I don't let that bug me too much. I learned to do better, and those memories only serve as an example of a lesson learned. For me, it's called listen and move a good direction. I can't undo do those old things....but I can place them in a parameter of that internal compass that indicates, um....that's a wrong direction....ends in shame.

The direction I take is far more important to me than anyone else. Because "I" "always" know what I do...and they may not. So, if "I" know that I am moving in directions to reach for pride of positive action, then they will also see that I have...in good time.

I'm sorry....this computer must have had a hiccup. Maybe the admin can delete all but one? Sigh!!!!!