You're tripping. I read your post and frankly I don't get involved in non-RA discussions regarding religion. You didn't offend me and I'm sure not many others. I don't see how people find time to bicker with all this going on with RA. I'd rather see a post about positive outcomes of RA rather than a someone's religion.

oops...I meant other than someone's religion.

What I say to you is boo hoo!

You make an inflammatory post saying you wish only to state your feelings about religious posting so that you can find out if this is the proper site for you.

1. Who on here do you think has the ability to tell you if this is the place for you based on their own opinions of others religious comments.

2. How on earth can you form such an opinion based other people logging on to this site and replying to your post?

a. If 50 people reply to your post who are religious stating they don't feel it is a religious site, yet 25 non religious people answer saying they do, then does that mean this is a religious site?

b. If 50 non religious people reply saying they do feel it is a religious site and only 15 religious people respond saying they don't think so then does it become a non religious site?

c. What if all the christians were at church when you posted this or all the non religious people were on a picnic, how could asking this question possibly help you decide if this forum was the place for you?

You were hanging around here when the last episode of religion opera took place and are completely aware of how it flavored the attitudes of all subsequent posts and how many people left because of the drama. You have convinced no one that you honestly thought you could come in here and bring this up again in almost the exact same way without causing chaos. I am not speaking as to your right to say what you wish only as to your innocence in the post. If you didn't fully know of the power of your words you wouldn't have started your post acknowledging that your words could upset people. So you have sacrificed yourself and that leaves us with the question of why.

Your excuses for the post do not hold merit. YOu are the only one capable of making a decision on whether or not a group is appropriate for you. If you are offended by someone making a religious comment then instead of hiding an attempt to oust religious commentary from a forum the easiest way to do this is to stand up and say I don't want to hear religion so don't give me any religious comments and believe me everyone on here who are faith minded would steer clear of you as if you had leprosy.

Making the comments that you did has succeeded in only further damaging a shaky support group. This is commonly referred to as destroying many to rescue one. For whatever your motive you were taking into consideration only what you had to gain and not what this support group stood to lose as a whole. Maybe there are those on here who agree with you that it was worth it to rid the group of more faith based individuals, but you have lost those who didn't have religious beliefs as well, and you know when you kill off all of your companions you are left standing in a very lonely place.

Your original post was Not sure just what label to put on this topic... and from there you said I wanted to ask though almost the same question that pissed so many people off. Is this a christian based group? It sure seems to be. I have absolutely no problem with others believing whatever they want. In fact my grand dad is a minister at an alliance based church and has been for over 40 years now. BUT that does not make me a christian and sometimes I do feel a little like I am having it stuffed down my throat when I come here looking for answers or companionship through this awful thing called RA.

My answer was The label is bigotry (prejudice, racism, intolerance, bias, narrow-mindedness, etc.) how anyone can pick on any one religion and claim that its being stuffed down your throat just by reading someone's response with a "Blessing" and "I'm praying for you", then what you got was an answer from me. Now, if someone sent you private messages, then you should report those if they are being offensive and insulting to you, but you ask a question and that was my answer. I was clear when I wrote that I was referring to all of those posts concerning one Religion.

I would hope that you not leave because the last thing any one of us wants is to ristrict anyone for their believes, thoughts, opinions and Faith, but if you come from a family of believers, then you should understand that many, like myself, will take the steps to protect and defend our Faith when it is being attacked. And yes...saying that someone using the word Bless is stuffing down your throat (paraphrasing) is a bit out there.

One thing about my Faith....I forgive and just keep on going.

Amen.

I sent a message asking if she was a researcher I admit.. but it was in noway how becrox portrayed it, I didn't accuse or tell her to be ashamed of herself. I can copy the message here if anyone wants to see. This is all really getting out of hand and it is especially sad because this group in particular is really nice and not easy to find another like this.

mazen you are not the only one that has sent me mssgs. Nor did I ever at any point say that I had a problem with the word blessing. So I wish people would read what I had wrote as what it was and not put their own pin on it

I gave you The Rules of the Road # 6. Did you even bother to read it? It says people are allowed to talk about how their religion (any religion) has helped them cope with this disease.

The rule said clearly DS is not religious nor affiliated, but it does not stifle free speech. You implied that any religious talk should be "private" which means you want to re-write the standard rules for 600 public DS forums.

I also said that perhaps this is not the place for you, if religious talk bothers you. Did you read that? I also thought you would have difficulty finding any forum where people did not refer to their faith journey and how it has helped them in times of need and pain.

So perhaps you need to found your own forum, and you can make up the rules, instead of trying to rewrite the ones that have worked so long.

You have just upset a group of people who are suffering, most of us, for about the 3rd time in 3 months. We are here to support people with RA, and that includes the full rabge, from meds, telling our side effects, and how God has helped us.

Sorry this forum did not work out for you.

This is ridiculous. Becrox, the vast majority of posts on this board are NOT ABOUT RELIGION. Actually, they're about RA! Imagine that! I'm not religious either. In fact, I'm often offended at socially conservative religious initiatives in my community. But being offended that some people include thier faith in thier own toolbox of ways to deal with this disease is nuts. It's intolerant. If you can't handle the occasional mentions of faith that are posted here, then you are right in your assessment- this isn't the right place for you.

Thank you Caren......

It is my thought process....from the other side. I am openly Christian....have been all my life. It does color how I post and how I think.

I never get offended at those who don't use faith in their lives....why do people always get offended because I do. I don't shove it down anyone's throat, but it is a constant part of my daily conversation. I have friends of many faiths, and some of no faith....as well as many family members who are adamant about not being Christians. If in my life out side DS I can manage to have such diversity surround me without the problems we are having here, why can't we all just get along here?

I have been absent since the last religion fight, and had only come back a couple days ago. I don't want to force anyone to believe like I do(and I personally don't think that God wants to force anyone to accept Him either--it is called free will for a reason). But I hate comming here and hearing how being who I am is unacceptable.....and having to censor my own posts to make sure I haven't said something that might offend someone who believes differently than I do.

I have said more than I intended....but I think I will leave it this way. I really appreciate the comments from the non-religious people here who truly understand tolerance isn't freedom FROM religion...but rather acceptance that it exists and is a comfort to someone else.

Marianne.

I have not been on DS regularly in the past year, so I've come late to this issue.

I've been a member of DS for a number of years and I have to say I am shocked at how certain members have jumped down becrox's throat. This is not the behavior on DS I am used to.

All Becrox wants is a place for support in dealing with this beast called RA. We all do. It took me some time before I found DS and was very happy when I did. So I can understand that she asked some questions to make sure this is the right place for her.

Just as her tolerance of Christianity was put to question, I pose a question to all of you:
Should we not show tolerance to those who who have certain issues with religion? I believe becrox was very brave in being open about her doubts and reached out to the group.

And then she was shot down in a way I have never witnessed on DS. The manner that this was done is shameful, I particularly take offense to the use of the word bigotry. My parents fought against the oppressors of Apartheid South Africa, I have seen bigotry at its worst; becrox's post shows no signs of that.

Even though I still cherish the friends I have here, I'm coming to realize why I visit DS occasionally. Just as a real society this group has changed. I hope it will change back.

Becrox, I am sorry you have been treated this way and sincerely hope you find a place with unconditional support.

Take care of yourself,

Ferhaan

Waaaaaaaaaaaa Waaaaaaaaa Waaaaaaaaaaaaaa ...............

It's time to pick a different group Ceila.



(ferhaan, always a voice of reason ... kind, compassionate - unlike myself - I look up to you.)

2 cents anyone? I have 2 cents I am willing to give away. More like a cent and half but in todays markets it's to be expected I guess. The 2 things that get people fired up are religion and politics, so we've been told for years. In my useless opinion, they do. I certainly do not get a " religious " vibe from the forum, or site, in any way shape or form. I'm sure there's a site, or more, that are religious based out there, and they would not be for me. I don't know where I stand on the religious subject at this point in my life, it was a rough ride as a child in the religion department, but I understand that many have complete faith and live by it daily. So be it, we all need to believe in something. If someone wants to say a prayer for me or offer a blessing then so be it. It's not going to alter my life, so to speak, nor will it harm anything. In fact I think a certain " good " will come of it. The person saying the prayer for me will feel some form of relief by offering my ill ways to their greater being. If that is what helps them get by then so be it, harms me not. For the vast majority, religion is at the absolute center of their being. It is a part of their daily routines. How can't it be thought that they wouldn't be able to have discussions about trying times without mentioning their creator? The very being that holds their life in the hands, so to speak of course. It's embedded in them. Anyone here can send, or offer, a blessing or prayer or cast a spell of death on me, it bothers me not. Someone could offer me advice to help my illness or hinder it. Bothers me not. These are simply words on a screen that need to be read in the way they were intended, which is hard to at best because our language is based on tone and bodily displays as well as spoken word. If a prayer offering or blessing is offered in a forum, or message, and that is considered having it forced down someones throat, then perhaps they may be a little sensitive to the issue. I feel that if your sitting in my living room going on a rant about how great god is and I must concede or face a sure eternity in a lake of fire and torture, then your ramming it down my throat. Why question another's beliefs if they are simply trying to help in their own minds? The offering doesn't have to be read, believed or thought of if the reader chooses not to. " I'm praying for you " and " I'm hoping and wishing the best for you " are the same in context, they both offer a belief in your well being. One is based on a " greater being " and the other is based on a " greater chance ". Now with all that babbling laid out, I can tell you without a doubt that this site is most certainly NOT religious based. Some of the things I have said on here, the comments I have made,huh, let me tell you, if they tolerate me...............

Wrenchhead - thank you for putting my sentiments into words. I feel the exact same way you do and I've been wondering whether or not to say anything. Now I don't have to. : )

I am really starting to feel like I need to clear this up. Let me tell you I have had a sleepless night or two over some of the things that people here have said. I did not wish to cause anyone pain. I WAS just asking a question and I tried numerous times to make that clear. I never once said that I have a problem with blessings or someone offering to pray for me. In fact I said in several posts that I don't at all have a problem with that. I do NOT have a problem with religion. I do however have a problem with people messaging me trying to get me to see'gods' light. I do have a problem with comments in posts to me about 'god trying to talk to me and me not listening'. And I definately have a problem with the fact that 1 question from me (meant from a place of query and nothing else) led people to call me evil, Celia (which btw I must not have been here for that, my name is Rebecca), terrible, ignorant and so many other choice words. Enough is enough people. I said I was sorry and I meant it.

And like I told one of the people who chose to email me for clarification about my validity - My name is Rebecca, my husbands name is Darryl. I have two beautiful daughters ages 1 and 2. I have RA. I live in a little town called Blackfalds. I have never lived anywhere other than Alberta. I work at a place called Mitchener Services in Red Deer Alberta. Look it up if you need to, it is a center for people with mental and physical disabilities. And if you still have doubts ask. I am so sick of being accused of not being a person, or worse being a researcher when I came here for support and advice. So...

Some of the people here have been very kind through this. To those of you (you know who you are) thank you very much from the bottom of my heart ( and yes I do have one of those haha). I will always remember your kindness and will revel in the fact that there ARE still good people in the world (and online).