Maybe it will take you making this tough decision for your H to pull his head out of his a$$.

You can't heal the marriage on your own.

What Loving said.

My problem is really that my own childhood was SO RUINED by my parents awful divorce. And yes, I know, my divorce doesnt have to be like theirs, but it so scarred my for life that I swore I would never get divorced.

My H and I would joke about it (he had gone thru a bad divorce with his parents also) - we always said "Death before divorce!"

And then he went and had a long term sexual and emotional affair.

And now he thinks I should just put it behind me and move forward with the marriage. "It's over, why do you keep bringing it up?"

And he has NEVER told me one thing about the A. Everything I know, I know from reading his emails, calling the OW -- anythime I ask him ANYTHING he says "I can't remember". Seriously, it's like talking to a five year old.

And he still lies to me about stuff that I know is true from his emails. He just lies and then rolls his eyes and says "Whats the difference, you're never going to believe anything I say?"

But he is still lying!!!!

Aaarrggghhhhhh.

At this holiday time of year, I just feel extra guilty about causing my children pain. I wish I could have protected them better. I wish I had chosen to marry someone who would have been a better father to them. I feel very guilty and I think that's why I keep staying when he really needs to go.

Your kids need a mom who is stable and sure of herself. The stress that is in the home right now can't be good for them.

It could be that your H is feeling secure because of the "death before divorce" attitude you've both had. If he is continuing to lie, he is totally disrepecting you and the marriage. If you take a stand, it could be the catalyst towards rebuilding...it's obvious what you're doing now isn't getting you anywhere.

You've got to stop living in the past. It's a dangerous place, and it will only keep you stuck. "If wishes were horses, beggers would ride". What's done is done, you only have a chance to make changes from this point on.

Compromise, get through the holidays by making a mutual plan (call it a non-agression pact) for the kid's sake, get drunk on New Years, and fight it out after the hang-over in 2009. Decide what you don't need, what you need, and who you love, draw your lines and fight it out on that front and stick to your guns. One way or the other it's going to end in divorce, separation, or reconcilliation. State your terms and stick to them. You can do it ...

He sounds like someone who hates to face the truth..the harsh reality and likes to escape from it all...unfortunately..he can't hide from it..and hope it goes away... and painful as answering your questions may be... he has to...
maybe you could make a deal..that you ONLY talk about in the marriage counselors office... all other time is off limits...
this way you can try to keep your home life separate ... and peaceful...

do you think he would go for that?

Jrsygrl - He would love that! That would be like get out of jail free for him. Then the rest of the time he could just ignore me and pretend like nothings wrong - thats what he does anyway

I know you're angry and hurting and want to get to the bottom of it all (whatever that is...I still haven't gotten ther 2 years later...) but..keeping the conversations at the therapists office is not letting him off the hook..it may be a better place to get to the bottom of things because he can't walk out of the room, cover his face, yell etc...
been there with my husband...

Morgan
I feel your frustrations. My husband does not talk to me either about the affair. He just dont get that I want answers to somethings and you know waht I really dont know if I can believe the ones that he gives me. He does seem very remoresful about the whole thing and that helps. Some men just dont communicate I know I have one and I am dealing with that. Do you think its to painful for him to think about it? Dont get me wrong thay should do everything it takes to help us heal from the pain they caused. But do you think he is in pain to? And he just dont know how to deal? Like jrsygrl13 its been 2 years and we are better now and I see positive BUT there is still so many holes!!!

jrsygrl - yes, I have tried to talk to him with the therapists help but it's the same in their office as out. Also, we spent the first four months after Dday with H DENYING that it was sexual, denying it with the therapist, and I would sit there every week saying "I just wish he would tell me the truth" - and the therapist would try lots of different things to get him to tell the truth, but he never would. I finally emailed the OW from hi email and pretended to be him, just to get the truth out becaue I felt like I was losing my mind.

gem - yes you are right - he is terrible at communtication -- growing up his Dad would actually hit him if he tried to show any emotion -- and yes he is in alot of pain and doesn't want to remember what he did.

I know how you feel Morhgan. My H is like an emotional parapalegic. He is basically doing nothing and just waiting for me to "GET past it". like it is somehow mysteriously going to happen without him busting his ass to do what he was suppose to do all along. He is will compassionaite for a brief time like a day and then when I am not "all better" happy and just joyously committed and to our future and romantically all over him it is like I am not here. My H just does not grasp the depth of my dispair over how deceptive and cruel his affair was and to what degree HE needs to work to make it better. I need so much more than he is giving... and likely will divorce when I get the chance because I don't think he has it in his to not only give me what I need in love, attention, but to also persevere with it.

Hell, if he just talked to me as much as he talked to his little slut for four months straight like he did with her, he could have won me back... what a dumbass. They are just too stupid. Then they want us to be comappssionate about their pain which they created ... you know it takes two to rebuild... marriage is 50/50 ... how come they weren't thing that when they were f*cking that nice new piece of a$$.


Okay so I am not in a loving holiday mood... sorry. Hang in there Morgan.

Morgan, my dday was only 7/27/08 and my h cheated our whole marriage and our whole marriage was a lie to me. All of my memories are a lie. I can't make sense out of any of them. And he will not talk about it. I cannot even bring it up once a month and when I do...he says yes I lied and this issue has rigamortis....That is what he said yesterday...

Mine has no compassion at all either. They say the unfaithful partners who show compassion, who are willing to be truthful, get everything out make the healing and rebuilding process much easier, and those who don't make it almost impossible.

If you truly still love him, maybe you should find another counselor.

I am not so sure I love my husband any longer. He really does not see anything that he has done to me. He doesn't see how I am trying to make sense of any of this and he does not help me with anything. It is MY problem. ALL OF IT. EVERYTHING is my problem. He told me, he did it and thats all the responsiblity he will take. That is it for him. He still lies, still talks to her and lies to me about it and I can't take it anymore. Then tells me he lies because he wants it all to go away. What a jerk....when I tell him for the hundreth time that lying is what makes it worse! Lying is what has made everything worse. I hate liars. I cannot believe anything out of his mouth.

My husband says he is doing everyting, yet his mail still goes to a PO box, he still lives at h is Moms during the week, but wants to spend the night here whenever he wants, yet will not tell me what he is doing or where he has been, etc. but when I ask he tells me I am being paranoid. WHAT? I have no right to ask. And you say you are doing everytihng in your power to rebuild trust? I don't think so.

YOur husband sounds a lot like mine, he won't tell me anything either, and he will tell me that I won't believe him if I tell him. Well of course I don't believe him know because he WONT tell me. Living with lies and half truths is destroying you.

They put no effort into us, yet they could put the effort into their relationship with their sluts for years...that is what we do not understand....

My birthday was the other day and he bought me jeans that are not my size or my style...they look just like her! I feel like dropping them off on her porch!

Morgan...I didn't realize that he also refused to talk in the therapists office! and lied for such a long time about the details! That's a very different situation..

like Kelly says....in that case your husband is making it impossible to heal this marriage! does he realize that? you can't just sweep this all under the rug...and pretend it didn't happen...

Bottom line Morgan, If he won't talk, you have to walk.

EVERY SINGLE book written about infidelity, EVERY SINGLE counselor, KNOWS that lies and avoidance is not healing in any way shape or form. Okay maybe some old school counselors look at the betrayed and say it's up to you to get over it. But todays thinking does not support that view.

You are almost a year out, he should have gotten the message by now...

Get the two books, "After the Affair" by Janis Springs, and "Not just Friends" by Shirley Glass. Set aside time to read them TOGETHER... they both point out the damage that lying does in the healing process.

Thanks to all of you for all your support and suggestions. Somedays I feel like DS is my lifeline - my only sanity - my only time to breathe out.

Rel8 - I have read those two books (I think I have read everybook on the subject, at least 20) and I gave him After the Affair the week after Dday, he read a little but then gave up. I asked him again last week to please read it and I think he read the second chapter. It was actually nice when we could talk about it.

Today he has been trying really hard so it's been better, but that's also been his pattern -- make an effort until things are "good" then totally drop the ball and ignore until I get mad again.

We'll see....