Needhelp - yes what you said is true for me also.

Texy - I wish my H would be willing to say what you wrote! He would never - he justs gets md and frustrated and takes it out on me.

Yorick - I totally get the broken watch analogy, but me for it to be MY reality, I would add -- IF I had told you that the watch was the single most precious thing in the world to me and that I would be HEARTBROKEN if it ever got broken, and you had disregarded my wishes and with no thought about how I would feel about it, you had carelessly and without forethought broken it, and THEN...as you describe seems correct.

Everyone situation is different, I'm just describing mine.

Morgan, have you guys been to marriage counseling? and has your H read any books on adultery?

yes, we were in therapy the whole time of his A - he was depressed from being out of work and I couldn't figure out why the therapy wasnt helping - but he was lying in the therapy because he was in the A

Since Dday, we go together to a MC, then we each have a therapist, and I also have a coach

Mostly what happens is that the MC works with him, makes suggestions, tries to get David to shift his perspective...in the room, David says he "sees the light" and cant wait to get started in his new ways, then he doesnt do what he said he would do, then I get upset, then we start all over with him. We also went to a weekend intensive together but David didnt keep up on his assignments afterwards and just went back to his old behavior.

The therapists all think that he needs to move out, because its been so long and none of them have been able to halp him have a change in perspective. I have to agree, when he is still openly hostile to me when I am in so much pain, I would rather not be around him. But we can't really afford a second place right now - our money situation is bad and getting worse (he is out of work again and has been for awhile) -- and there are rumblings at work that there might be cutbacks, so who knows??

And all this therapy and days lost at work and such has ben SO EXPENSIVE. SOmeone else posted about the cost of the affair - ours has been HUGE! Like all of what would would have been our family vacations for the next ten years.

Also, I have struggled and struggled with the idea of separation because I think that with my abandonment issues that when I moves out, I will just decide to be done with him and then it will mean divorce.

Do you ever guys really just get so sick of all of this?

I think what I would give to have my old life back!!!!

I gave him all the books I read (over 20) and have BEGGED him to read "After the affair" numerous times in the last year. He read 20 or so pages on two occassions but Im pretty sure thats it.

He can't be consistent about anything -- except hiding in his ball of shame.

Needs -- I don't know what to tell you. Please note that I said after you'd got it all out and the only sign of that is consistency. Then the loop becomes well neigh unbearable.

Morgan -- Separation. Legal separation. He needs time to get his head further up his shorts, or out of them. IMO.

Morgan TX, I wouldn't seperate until you were geniually done trying or if the two of you agreed to let it go. Seperation doesn't have to mean moving out... it could be as simple as seperating your living quarters as best possible and sleeping in seperate bedrooms.

If your husband is not interested in participating... you guys are wasting your money.

Yes, sadly, I think you guys are right. I am doing everything he can - I cant do his part for him.

Today he started with a new therapist who specializes in intimacy disorders - I guess I will see how that goes and just keep working on my own stuff.

I updated my status to good not because H and I are getting along better -- but just because I have been doing my own good work on my own stuff.

You're right. That man from the past may still be there, or he may be long gone -- burned up in the carnage of the affair. He has to do his part, he has to step up to the plate, and if you have a different man than the one you had before, he needs to be an improvement (not perfect) but an improvement over the last two incarnations. Only you can tell what works for you of course. In the meantime, keep doing that good work on your own stuff, and remember, if he wants the marriage, he's got to prove it to you. (IMO)

Thank you Yorick. Often times I read your posts and I wish that my H had your clarity of thought. I know you still struggle as we all do, but you seem to have done the hard work to get some clear perspective on it all.