I have never felt not loved. My husbands affairs had just been sex no emotions he used the OW for his own join. I never caught on he was cheating. The only difference now is:
When he tells me he loves me, sometimes he'll add I am so sorry I did this!

Tell him you need the ego strokes, sex and constant attention *your words about his affair* that he got while he cheated. We all need these things and he should be able to understand because he got it during his affair. I find myself feeling very angry at times because my H was spoiled by me during the adultery and yet he felt sorry for himself during that time. How can a man feel sorry for himself when he is doing anything and everything he wants to do, and he is having sex with his wife and ow?

For the record Morgan, I do feel loved... However when I'm having a bad day and I need extra assurances my H hasn't always pulled through.

When my H tends to pull away at the first hint of discussing my pain, I point blank tell him "this is where you need to hug me and reassure me". It takes a while for them to wrap their minds around hugging a crying bitch but just hearing "I'm so sorry I put you through this" helps immensely.

IMO the hardest thing for them to understand is that it's NOT "business as usual". Once that barrier is broken you can go on to deeper and more understanding conversations.

Good luck and talk to him about your needs...

I think ... I think ... because I have the same problem as your H. this is a real gender issue ... there's passive-agression that goes on from both sides, nobody wants it to be that way but that's how our minds react to the after-effects of an affair.

Men do seem to have a very, very difficult time understanding why women (seemingly) must circle back, and circle back, and circle back again to all the details, whys and wherefores of the A.

And being told that you must be loving and tender and caring for your spouse when it seems like that's just a set-up for more anger and tears and flashbacks seems like some kind of set-up. Or at the very least -- counter-productive. The trust a cheater destroys is not only the trust their mate had in them, but the trust (he or she) had in their mate's ability to forgive.

Many of us understand why this is so, but to walk back into that field of land-mines at your betrayed spouses request when you know it's going to hurt not only themselves, but their mate all over again feels like insanity.

It FEELS this way. I know my wife is not setting a trap, I know she needs this, but everything in me says -- "STOP! This won't work! It's just going to take us back to square one all over again and it will never end!" At least in my case. I keep working on it but it is very, very, very hard to understand how to do it, and then to find the courage to do it. I think I (we) just keep hoping that with sufficient time, and visible actions, poeace will come and the time will be right to risk again ... Like I said -- I'm trying to get past that fear ....

PS -- a lot of good stuuff popped up (above: Texy, Rel, and Tear) while I was composing this!

Yorick - You are like the self-realized, able-to-express-your thoughts version of my husband. When I listen to things you share, many many times it feels to me like things that he would say if he were able to.

I understand your point -- why step into the land mine when you know there is just an explosion/pain/fear that awaits you??

My question is...what is it that the person in your position tells themselves...that there is another way around and you won't have to go thru the mine field?

Texy - I can totally relate to that anger. When my husband was cheating, I was doing so much every day to try and make him happy -- taking care of the family, working full time to support us since he had lost his job, always having sex with him -- but he somehow needed more/different/???

Rel8 and tearful - I am glad for you both that you feel really loved. I hope to get there again in the future. It's good to hear from other people who are doing better than I am because it gives me hope.

One of the things that my H *USED* to say is "this is never gonna end, we'll be talking about this forever". He was right but I told him that that is the worst thing to say. The goal is not to shove it in their face but to gain a common understanding where it isn't a great distraction to us anymore. The willingness by the cheater to go down that path is the MOST helpful regardless of what or how it's being discussed. It's a leap of faith that once you cross it, is the key to healing.

As I've said before in some long ago posts, we've beaten the A to death. I thank my husband for not continuing to lament that "it's never gonna end" and participating in the dialogue.

Did you ever see a dog stuck on the wrong side of a pond, or a fence when his master is walking away? Dog just knows he wants to go, so he runs along the water line or fence line looking for something -- he doesn't know exactly what it is he's looking for, he only knows he'll know what it is when he finds it.

and that's the thing that will get him on the right side of the line.

My husband acts attentive, loving, considerate, flirty with me, and affectionate. Since he's proven himself to be such a skillful actor, I don't know if it's real.

I don't really know if I'm loved or not. I don't think my husband thinks of love the way I do. I don't think men in general think of love the same way women do at all. It means something else to them.

In fact I don't even know what love is or what it means to feel loved any more. I just know I'm being treated nicely and as long as I don't mention "it", we live normally and can laugh together sometimes and feel kind of happy. Hopefully that will be enough for now. Only time will tell if we're really loved.

Yorick - Your dog analogy seriously made me laugh because I TOTALLY got what you are saying.

Growing - your post also hits hime for me because my H is NOT that good of an actor, and sometimes now when he's complimenting me and trying to be really affectionate -- I can see that he's faking and I can't call him out on it because he's trying and it just hurts so bad.

I feel loved. For a while my H became VERY defensive when I would start to talk about the A. In the aftermath of one of our "discussions" aka fights I told him that when I get worked up like that instead of being defensive he needs to come over and hug me and just tell me he loves me, how sorry he is and that he will never do it again. He said that I need to speak to him calmly and dispense with the interrogation techniques.

I have tried this. Now I just lower my voice and speak in calm even tones. Sometimes instead of getting angry I get a sad look on my face. That results in the hug and I'm sorry routine. As a result we have gotten through most of it and are definitely on the other side. We "discuss" much less now. Now we talk more about how to improve our relationship and communication and look at the psychology of the whole thing. I also decided that I am not going to let this get me down anymore. I want to be happy and have a blissful marriage. AND GOD DAMN IT - I'M GOING TO DO WHATEVER IT TAKES TO MAKE IT HAPPEN.

I didn't after affair #1; after #2 I DID feel loved and felt a difference in our relationship. The problem was he stopped working on it and went back to his hold patterns. I some ways I think he's changed; I know he loves me; but I just can't get that loving feeling back.


Morgan - you said that you can tell he's going through the emotions; but you don't feel he really means it (at least thats what I am understanding). Put aside the family; it it was just you and him; would he still want to stay and reconcile?

Hi Morgan, I really think you almost need to mourn the death of that old loving realtionship and start a new one. My H has that pattern of control and makes me feel guilty for things BUT it is all about him and they need to realize if they don't want to loose the family/you that selfish, lack of respect needs to change. I know counseling has started to help and we'll see. You need to start to do for yourself, when you find little bits of time go to the gym, read. You need to feel loved by yourself and he jumps in Great! But if he doesn't w/o his control by guilt or distance to make you wonder what you could change is sooo frustrating. Make you happy and your kids. I think in the end You'll either have the strength to leave or he'll see there are 2 people in this relationship. They also need to feel appreciated to feel like showing us love and attention. So if you can muster past your own anger from being betrayed to show that it may change his showing of affection. Good Luck, keep me posted on anything that works.

Growing56, you are SO right. I don't think 95% of men love as deeply. They don't realize the damage that an affair does to the psyche of a woman. The betrayal runs SO deep. Being treated nicely is as much as many can do. But in our hearts we know they treated the affair partner 'nicely' too, so why should we think they love us any differently than they loved the affair partner. You can't trust your own feelings anymore because you were obviously SO wrong the first time. You can't believe in anything anymore since you were deceived. YOu say you can 'laugh together sometimes' and 'feel KIND of happy." What a mere fraction of how grand life used to be. How sad to think this is all there will be from now on.

I don't have any idea of what love means to men.