I can't really give advice since I do not have experience in your situation. I can just say what I feel. I would not want to live with a lying cheating person for my child. I would not want my child to grow up in such an environment. It will teach a girl it is ok to lie and cheat and you will have HELL when she is a teenager. She will choose boyfriends according to her father's behaviour and boys will treat her like crap her whole life. If it is a boy I wouldn't want my son to grow up with such a father either. He will learn cheating and lying is ok, and especially disrespecting women and using them for his own purposes. So, I guess if you want to stay with a man that lies to you all the time, and try to rebuild a marriage, all I can say is good luck with that. What is it that you want to protect your child from when you leave? Is it better for your children (or child) to live with a man with terrible morals, or is it better to be brought up in an environment where ONE parent loves them to death, and they get brought up with good manners and morals and maybe if you meet a person that respects you and don't take you for a fool, that you can experience true love and your child can do the same?

Nope, without some level of atonement and disclosure of what happened, you don't rebuild your marriage, you just rug sweep your problems.

Someday, you will have to move or replace the rug, and there they will be.

Sorry :(

I don't think we have to know every detail of what happened, but the CS has to at least acknowledge SOMETHING. Usually it starts off as a tiny admission that's minimized to make it appear "not that bad" but slowly unravels. You just have to find that one little hole in the story and start from there.

Full disclosure, remorse, nc, and a willingness to do whatever it takes to rebuild. I, personally don't believe a rebuild is possible without those. Sometimes nc is impossible due to work, or in my case there is an oc which makes limited contact necessary.

If they do work together, they should make every effort to limit contact either by filing for shift, department or location changes. There should be zero emails texts and phone calls with the op that aren't 100% warranted.

He should be willing to answer all of your questions.

I'm confused by your post. It sounds like your saying he is trying to rebuild but not admitting to an A that clearly happened.

For years I suspected my H A and he denied. He would go through periods where he seemed to be trying to make our marriage better but NEVER admitted to it at that time.

I can tell you there was no "real" marriage during the lying years because he was living a double life and I couldn't open my heart to a known lier.

It was many years later when I finally made the decision to end the marriage and seperate from him. After a couple of months of separation he realized I was DONE and ready to make the seperation legal.

That gave him the courage to finally come clean as he realized he nothing left to lose. Once he fessed up he showed genuine and complete remorse with willingness to do whatever it took to get me back and rebuild.

By the time he did open up it was over 10 years from the first time I had strong suspicions of an A. His full disclosure was HUGE. He admitted to an A that lasted about 3 years that ended when he got her pregnant. The oc was turning 7 when my H finally was able to tell me.

If rebuilding is what you want, I hope your cs is willing to do all he needs.

Sending some cyber (((hugs)))
Pink ; )

Thank you all...
Pinkpony: No, we're not rebuilding, I'm just trying to figure out how to get there, or whether I want to, at this stage. He's not admitting anything, and I've known for 8 months. I'm trying to get proof, but wondering if rebuilding based on "catching" him would actually be likely. Did you know for sure he was cheating all those years? Wow, if so, you're a very strong person. Because I know my husband is for sure and it's all I can do to survive one day at a time-just waiting for proof at this point... For example, he came home smelling like soap yesterday, an hour late, after "sweating sunscreen into his eyes," as he told me.
Just looking into surveillance ideas, but not sure how to purchase them without his knowing, as we share the same bank account...

Everyone: Any ideas?

It's not just about remorse (though that does help) it's about putting precautions into place to avoid recurring problems and ensure that the infidelity doesn't have a chance to grow again.

I guess it's like lice... you can suspect you have it and then just... ignore it? And maybe it will go away. Maybe. But if you really wanna make sure you get those little buggers gone, you sort of have to fine tooth comb and fully treat the area to make sure you have a fresh start.

That's my experience, anyway. *shrug*

Ideas for snooping:

Digital recorders are cheap and easy to get. I bought one for my husband to use at work (he has to interview people regularly) on Amazon.com for next to nothing. I'm sure you could buy a used one on Ebay, even, or if you don't want it shipped to you, check your local electronics store. You may also use some sort of local resource (newspaper, online group, etc.) for people giving away/selling those sorts of things. Even though older digital recorders only last a few hours, you could probably time it so that you could hide it in his belongings somewhere (coat pocket, bag, briefcase, etc.) and many are voice activated so it won't record unless there's sound going on. Leaving it in your house when you're away and he's there may work, too.

As for how to excuse that purchase... like I say, they're fairly cheap. You could probably squirrel away enough little bits of here and there money to buy one without his knowledge. Or if you needed, just say you're thinking of... I don't know... starting a book or blogging and you want to record your ideas. I wouldn't let him know you even had it, though.

Digital history. How did your husband meet this other person or these other people? Is he calling them via cell phone? Is he meeting them online? Check browser history (my husband was NOTORIOUS about deleting his browser history which always made me wonder!), check emails, check cell phone history, check your home phone history.

Consider who he knows/sees/associates with. Does he know a lot of women at work? Neighbors? Would any have the means of starting up a relationship with him? Investigate. The "other woman" is a LOT more likely to come clean than he is because they usually think that if the wife finds out that he'll leave wifey and go running to the other woman. It rarely works that way, but they think it will so they will often push for the husband to tell or will leave "proof" around in the hopes that wifey will figure it out.

Make excuses to be gone during time frames when you suspect he is out cheating anyway in the hopes he will bring her to your house. Then come home suddenly and catch them in the act. This won't work if he's not bringing anyone home, though. My husband was dead set against bringing the OW into our house, so this never would have worked for me. I would have had to follow him in person, which would have been the next thing I did if I hadn't found the emails in his email account. Still, it sounds like you've found suspicious things in your own home, so it's worth a try.

Some other tips and tricks:
http://www.truthaboutdeception.com/lying-and-deception/detecting-deception/discover-the-truth/catch-cheating.html

It does not matter if you have proof or catch him if your going to do the same thing your doing now. Since you know something is going on, even though you don't know what, it is all about your actions now. He does not believe you will hold him accountable or leave, so he mocks you. I am sure he feels even if you have so called proof he can call your bluff.

Want something to change, then lead that change with your actions. 100% cut him off from everything other than your child and money. Go full court, full radical 100% 180 degrees on him.

You act and his actions will follow.

Hi ILoveLilacs

For me -- I was have a huge problem if the CS did not show remorse -- in my situation (although the genders are reversed -- it is similar) My Wife has stated and shown that she feels that she was justified in having an affair. I do not believe that catching him will make him any more likely to truly be sorry. The other person is either there or they are not. You can't force them to be there. However -- in my view -- rebuilding wont happen unless this takes place --- as goingtobeok said -- you cant sweep it under rug. I really cant get past how my wife blames me for her having the affair and is not sorry etc.... not sure if that helps you much

Thank you all...

Going to be ok and Kevin: I'm sorry to hear you're inthe same situation-it's gut-wrenching every time I wake up or it comes to mind again.

Going to be ok: thank you for your advice...I'm not sure though if that would even get him to come clean-he is so stubborn about not getting found out...

Kevin: As for remorse, I don't think he'd have it even if I caught him...in a moment of "truth," when I told him it's like I'm living in a nightmare, he said, without actually admitting anything, that he is too, looking at me like he was putting the blame back on me. As far as accountability, he already "checks in wit me" and acts accountable for his whereabouts, yet I still keep finding signs...
I'm just hoping that there's hope, as I never would have thought I would end up being a single mom-the thought is so daunting for me...I'm very traditional in the family sense. And I SOOOO want a mommy and daddy home for my little 1yr old girl. :(

Alora: I think it's online-and he can totally talk to them and use the computer at work, our computer has a "hidden browsing" option, and I've checked all the phone records, etc., and nothing...so he's good at covering those tracks, just not good at cleaning up the "signs" after each meeting.

Everyone: any other thoughts of how it could still possibly work?

I will try to put my story in a nutshell

Around spring 2000 I found phone calls on bill and confronted. He denied and lied. I knew phone belonged to a woman as I had called. He claimed it was a business. Then when I said I called he made up a story of her being a friend with cancer and he's not sure why he lied. Just friends.

I never believed and began acting like a bs and treating him like a cs. Other hints and clues popped up. No solid proof just confrontation and denials for years.

TheA was 3 years and ended after she got pregers. He was a father to oc for nearly seven years by the time dday arrived.

I seperated before he FINALLY confessed because every fiber of my being knew I was being lied to. I created my own truth. In my imagination there was several brief A that ended when I confronted. I was shocked that it was a3 year A and that there was a child.

From his confession on we began a rebuild. It has been 3 years and 4 months. It was close to two years into it before I felt we were really succeeding on our rebuild. We have to be ontop of it all every day now to keep the rebuild successful. I think people not keeping ontop of their marriages is what causes the cracks and holes.

If you know for sure then why not confront? But decide how at you are willing o take this once you do.

You said:

Going to be ok: thank you for your advice...I'm not sure though if that would even get him to come clean-he is so stubborn about not getting found out...

You missed my point. My advice is not to make him "come clean". It is for you to stop enabling him and to make yourself come first. You put yourself first and cut him off from all the benefits you provide. He then changes and becomes someone worthy of you staying married to, or he doesn't, but your actively putting yourself first anyway to you are starting to heal and become ready to live with or without him.

Your stuck on getting proof. I am telling you to act as if you have 1000% undeniable proof starting right now. Exercise your plan B.

Waiting and seeking proof is just enabling him and SHOWING him he can keep doing what he has been doing and your will be there, open arms, ready and willing to great him and give him all the benefits of being his wife.

Change and he either follows or he doesn't. That is how to rebuilt your marriage.

Going that is great advice. It took me so many years to get to that point and that's when I finally seperated prompting him to confess.

Right after my first confrontation I found out I was pregnant with third child. I tried to make it work. Things were not great. Then I had another clue confrontation denial. Shortly after I found I was pregnant with 4 th child. It felt impossible to leave. Finally feel strong and 4 th child gets I'll then mother in law dies tragic death.

Finally I have enough and seperated. I could wish I had the strength earlier (and sometimes I do think that) but then would I have had child # 3 or 4? Would I have chosen to rebuild? Would he have been ready to confess?

Do what you have the strength to do as soon as you have the strength. Start working on building yourself up now. Be strong enough to go this alone or rebuild. Both options take a toll on you and both can be worth the outcome.

But I agree with going. Behave as if he is a cs who has made the choice to continue A without regard to you. Confront him and do all you can to become self sufficient. It's a great tool no matter what the outcome.

Check THIS out: http://www.ez-csi.com/Ultimate-Investigator.htm. I am sure unless your husband is a control freak, he is not going to check each and every single transaction on your credit card.

Can you afford to hire a private detective? You could meet with one for a consultation and they could advise on how to cover the money trail - or maybe tell you what you can do on your own.

As far as cash, can you throw a Visa gift card in your grocery order and hide it from him that way? Or take cash out and save half?