Raised Catholic, and we're the ones who did that 7 Deadly Sins list (As well as 7 Cardinal Virtues). Pride in that sense is supposed to mean arrogance, hubris, egotism, what we'd probably call narcissism nowadays ----- for whatever that is worth.

Pride in that sense is deadly b/c we forget in pride to be grateful for the good things, we take on the idea that we're the only power that gets credit for (fill in whatever blank), and denies any divine agency/cosmic Good Guy/whichever term you prefer.

Pride in *everyday use* is very different. It means a sense of accomplishment and/or gladness in an accomplishment. E.g., Somewhere, a dead Jesuit is really proud I remembered all that from a class I took the same year I left the Catholic Church, which is 40 years ago.

So that's one of the millions of perspectives.

I live with very little pride in any sense, thanks to my childhood brain-training. Not, ironically, by the theological fathers, but by the biological one, who was an alleged atheist.

Yeah, taht's totally useless, but there's my thoughts.

Big hug sweetie.... I was going to write what Leo wrote with regards to pride, but I wouldn't have written it so well!!

I'm glad that you've had some time for you sweetie and I'm glad that you're enjoying it more now

Self-esteem or pride is something that I really struggle with as well.... xo

So glad you are actually getting to enjoy your time when your kids are away.

I'm protestant but I think the teaching on pride is probably close to the same.

(Also, I say this as a person who was regularly verbally battered after I already had childhood PTSD to the extent that I perceived the harsh words in that environment even in hours or on days when no one spoke them. So, I had no self-esteem and actually also very little self-concept).

I think the point about pride is supposed to be that all good things come from God, and that He didn't just create and then disengage but is still active in events in our lives.** So whenever something good happens or we accomplish something we're supposed to remember God's role in that. I think the sin part comes from forgetting God or taking credit for whatever His role/work was in a specific situation. It's not to say we can't be happy about or satisfied with our accomplishments it's just to say we don't reach them on our own.

Anyway, I think considering the totality of the way the Bible treats pride that's probably a good summary.

**And, just because this is a PTSD group, I'll add that people who do "bad" things (like abuse many here have suffered) are not obeying God, who wants us all to love our neighbors, etc.

Glad things are going well for you.

the catholic followed by the protestant got me reviewing the source of my understanding of the deadly sins. religion was so absent from my childhood that i didn't know the diff between one religioso and another. they were all equally scary to me. none of them liked child prostitutes. i was 48 before my psychotherapy progressed far enough to approach ANY religion. i chose catholic because they had formal classes that required minimal commitment for asking questions. i went to question and stayed to confirm. the spiritual advisor at that church might have been the best therapist i ever worked with.

but i knew about the deadly sins and was often accused of being prideful when i was reluctant to be a "good girl." was that really pride? god knows i had the self-esteem of a public toilet.

now i'm wondering if i really even know what pride is. . .

Prideful is a way of shaming people who aren't subservient enough in my experience. "Don't be proud, you're not that good at (fill in blank)" was a regular sentence of my childhood. Like you're supposed to apologize for doing something well/right/good.

so.... semantics can go on forever in such discussions, but I'll stick with the Jesuit teaching. Anything is a sin in excess ----- lust, gluttony, etc. ---- so prid is on the same scale, I reckon.

HI Arfie,

Generally most people conflate these things so, you are among the many, because our "church's" today have the same problems now as they did in Jesus time. Rather than teaching eternal TRUTH, they teach rules of men.

It is also a translation problem, sort of. The PRIDE, that scripture reveals is the root of all sin, (not one of seven deadly thats catholic bs) is best described in modern english as ARROGANCE or CONCEIT. IT is a matter of thinking and acting as though we are more important than others, or that our needs or concerns should be met before others or even at the expense of others.

The sin of Pride was born in the heart of God's most spectacular creation, who's most recognized name is Satan. Satan knew, as all angels had full awareness, defying God would mean damnation, and eventual death...and along the way he would lead multitudes of angels, and billions of people to their destruction, (eternal separation from their creator) also. Satan made his choice of defiance anyway, knowing with certainty the outcome. This is the root of the sin scripture describes as pride.

Satan had two reasons, the first was that He wanted glory for himself, (jealous of God's glory) and second, Angels were created as messengers for God, people were created as "children of God" with a destiny of becoming ONE with God, which No angel can ever become. (more jealousy of a position he was not created for)

You wrote, "i often believe it was sheer force of pride which enabled me to survive the freak show of my childhood. or was that force of will?" IT was not pride, it was a force of will, and a will to survive, both which are good gifts from God. You were looking to your own interests, which is not sin, as it is written, "look not only to your own interests but also to the interests of others"

You write, "even in my most catholic moments" there is so much wrong with Catholicism it actually contradicts scripture more than it adheres to it. (I was raised catholic) Wont go on that diatribe here but if any are curious feel free to ask me.

Way back in 1988, on my first excursion through scripture by my own choice, I came across verses in Chronicles when Solomon asked God for wisdom. (God blessed solomon abundantly for this request because he asked for wisdom not for personal gain but so he could be a good ruler for his people) and because I was raised Catholic, I did have some awareness of scripture, and knew even back then that "humility comes before wisdom" In those moments, I asked God for humility, not even understanding what i was asking for.

the pride that is sin is, all things that directly oppose love. "Love is not proud, it is not rude, it is not self seeking, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices in the truth"

Pride also directly opposes humility, and truth. In fact, we know certainly satan knows scripture better than we ever can, (reference Satan tempting Jesus in the desert quoting scripture to try to trap Jesus) however, scripture is written humbly, and the proud can not comprehend it. So, though Satan, and many proud men know scripture better than I ever will, it is not possible for the proud to comprehend it.

On a personal note, I have come to know you, feel like I do know you from reading your posts over the years. You do not have a pride problem. You are always reaching out to help others. If you want to know biblical truths about salvation or sin, (wondering why you would be concerned about what is sin or not) ask and I can easily show you the truth God has revealed in His word what HIs plan is for us to be saved. But you pretty much follow it already, (You regularly confess sins, I have seen this in your posts)

Anyway I hope this helps answer your questions.

thank you for the lesson in pope-burning christianity, draino. when my psychotherapy progressed far enough for me to approach holy contradictions, it was that very body of confusion which caused me to approach the catholic church instead of one of the mind-boggling number of de-nominations.

i remain mind-boggled by the cacophony. christians aren't the only of the world's religions that routinely hate on one another. how 'bout another oxy-moronic holy war?