At three I took too many of my dads tranquilizers and the hospital was too far away. I was being put in the car to the sound of hollering, then I was above watching the car make it's way out of our country road home roads. I was too small for that amount and too much time had passed to pump my stomach. I finally woke 3 days later. There are things I experience that, there is sights I see and they were real. But it is accepted in my culture and hereditary in my family. Those that doubt only do because they have not seen. I did show my therapist what I could, thankfully she understands and accepts cultural difference and beliefs
But it also plays a part in my why's.
I hope you find yours.
J.

Well, you made my brain hurt a little thinking about this and it took me all over the place. The law of probability to heisenberg uncertainty principle and Schrödinger's cat. I am a bit of a physics geek or at least I was at one point. Anyhow, I think in the end the only theory or principle that matters is the one that we hold true. I do however believe that no matter what road we are on or the choices we make along the way its more how we fair the journey then the destination. My answer doesn't make sense.. :)

I don't know anyone that really picks their "Beliefs". Your beliefs are just what you believe.

I don't believe in demons. But my heart sure breaks for you.

(As an atheist, I find myself forever defending my beliefs as not doubting or rejecting anything. For me, it brought a great peace...that's just me. I wish peace for you and for everyone.)

As for "infinite possibilities"....My daughter requested a book on Chaos Theory. I'm in line to read it, but it suggests that all things might not be possible. Some really interesting and heavy duty math in there.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJAs9Qr359o

hey ff, sorry about the hurt. if you are involved even slightly with quantum physics, i need to talk to you because that is a component of my "project" the "thing" i am writing and the facebook page i've been talking about for self harmers, people w/ptsd and so on. (sorry for calling a myriad of other people "so on". that is mostly my ignorance and inabilities...)

patti, i was actually born a registered atheist. lived that way content to be that through, say late teens early twenties. gradually the spirituality in me spiritualitized. the only difference or similarity if you prefer is that i believe "spirits" can be scientifically proved and are what the spiritual perceive them to be and simultaneously, not. in the not is where the science lives.

@extra, yes, I remember you saying that.

Being "out" as an atheist, I've run into dozens of closeted atheists and a few closeted theists too... Often huge stigma...HUGE stigma in having different religious beliefs than are culturally acceptable.

As for "proving" spirits....you'd have to first start with a definition. Who was it, St Francis (?) who said that "even God can't make a triangle with more than 3 sides".

If, by definition, a spirit is something that can't be "seen" (measured/recorded), then science could never prove a spirit. But if you had some other definition...than possibly it could....

Sorry, it was Thomas Aquinas. And it was a triangle with more than 180 degrees....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omnipotence_paradox

just a minor technicality!

hey, i believe we all see, measure and record spirit(s) all the time!

hey again, if by definition a spirit is one thing and in order to prove it all i need to do is change the definition, then proving it is not necessary, no?
anyway i believe that a spirit or spirits are something along the lines of strings in string theory and i know there is much more to it than what i just said but... i believe "strings" do spiritual things. lack of physical dimensionality plays into this also.

Ex, this is fascinating to me and is actually making me think! I love quantum physics and if often causes peoples head to hurt, its a good hurt tho!

After reading all the comments I have more to add :) Ok, so proving or disproving the existence of spirits and a definition of what the entails, we must first prove that spirits do not exist. Which would be difficult giving their is scientific evidence of spirits. Distortion in electromagnetics, thermal imaging also shows that for lack of any other explanation that things exist that we can not detect with our eyes. In that since we can't see them they don't exist is kind of like stating that radiation doesn't because we can't physically with our eyes detect it. We have instruments that do measure, we can see what radiation does, but we can not with out machinery actually see it. In this I think that just because you can't prove something doesn't mean its not valid it just means there isn't a test made yet to do it. Not trying to step on toes... you all just got me to put my thinking cap on for a bit it felt good. :)

i must have already said somewhere here that i'm a terrible reader and as a result, i always did poorly in school. two things: i'd often fall asleep in class - similar to falling asleep at work now. and when reading, i would have very poor comprehension of what i had read and would have to read over. this could be due to lack of sleep because i suspect the effect of the unknown trauma. or something else. but as a result. i have been isolated from being able to properly deal with the above subject becasue i find it so hard to read and study. i am not actually stupid. i know that i'm not. i'm probably very smart. and this plays into my theory of being posessed by an evil demon. the evil demon knows that i am smart enough to expose it, not like everyone does now and then: "the devil made me do it" "look at his eyes - he's evil" and the like, but actually come up with a legitimate scientific theory. and this is not a job for exclusively me. i don't think it can or shoudl be studied by only one person or just a few. but my hijacker specifically doesn't want me working on things that specifically expose its nature. i believe we here existing are kind of a test. an experiment. and the result of a war elsewhere and having the experiment discover the solutions is kind of undermining. we suffer because we come close to exposing the truth and the "evil" (not actually evil in my mind) doesn't want the truth coming out. so make it seem like its just a bunch of crazies and no one will believe them anyway. do you understand what i'm saying. this is traditional "insanity" talk. no one will believe unless, armed with books and tools and deep deep thought and working tirelessly we do make the discovery and we prove it. this is what being human is all about. and this is why i reject medication. i don't insist that medication should not be used. i do think it helps some in some cases. but those who don't want it and find it undesirable are likely those who are closer to the truth either with knowledge, or ability or some other ingredient that is needed for the work that needs to be done. i'm sorry, i do think delusionally at times. but i believe that delusions are merely the things others don't want or are not able to understand and believe. the test would be, does this kind of thought make us safer or in more danger. my desire is for the "menatlly ill" to get better help than they are getting now. my desire is to disarm those who want to create war. i believe any head of state who finds it necessary to send troops into battle or any terrorist who hijacks jets and flies them into buildings are suffering people who do not know how to resolve their suffering. once a war begins - and sorry to say it began way way way back - it is so hard to stop its power and disease. but someone has to "bite the bullet" so to speak someone has to take on the injustice needed in stopping war. so here once again is delusional thinking that i believe is just a tad closer to sanity than allowed in the general public. and things like quantum physics is sooooooo bleeping necessary and the demons wherever they are need to be looked right in the face and their force dispelled. they wont really be gone, just made right. and the experiment will turn out to have been a success. again, sorry for my delusions that i really believe. its 202 am and i need to sleep becaue i hav to get up early for a part, an aspect of my project.

One thing you mentioned in your last post was that you think you are being "tested". I happen to also think in that direction. Whether there are demons or we are simply challenging ourselves to be better really does not matter. What matters is that perhaps we chose this life, this family, this particular state of mind in order to learn something. In my experiences I have found that, "getting out of my own head" truly helps. I find things that I can do fairly well, do not require too much thinking, and this gives me some relief. Sometimes simply watching a film works. Sometimes meditation. Sometimes just singing along with my favorite songs. What happens to you brain in that state is quite healing, I hope you will find that the meditation works best

I am working on meditation. I do try. Or try to try