Your thread title said it all. I am in the same morass of "Cut strings? But... Yet... Um... And then... Errrr...." Yeah.

I have lost my mom. I'm quite aware some say, "Sheesh, you're 45, you don't need your mommy!" No, but it'd be nice if she still expressed maternal affection... Wouldn't it? Or am I insane here? I am all question mark, no answers today, Arfie, I apologize.

For what it's worth? Love your grandchildren. Whatever wall they're behind, they're still unique and wonderful little souls. One of my godsons has a grandma who hates his mom (her daughter) over something that occurred in almost twenty years before his birth. So she ignores him to his face and pours affection on her other grandkids, and that just sours it all worse. There's no mom-daughter fixing there. I know. He's my BFF's kid, and I've known her thirty-plus years. But she could at least have sent my godson a card or e-mail, y'know?

He feels very alone in that family b/c his grandma can't forgive his mom. Seen that, too. I was part of a family reunion five-six years ago, yes, they invited me, and it was *awful* to see him being the Ignored One for something his mom did as a teenager.

Not to say your DIL is at all comparable---but young as the grandkids are, you can still use snail mail, send a present for Christmas, a random Grandma Loves You card?

Just an idea from a godmother whose own mother is making her very glad she's not a mother, because wow, hurt my *pets*, I flip out. Hurt my kid? I don't wanna think what I'd do. Realllly don't.

Sorry. Hijacked. Bad morning. Apologies again.

Blessings as you let it flow, Arfie. Sooner or later, all currents reach a shore.

I agree with Leo, if you can, keep in touch with the kids. Let them know that you are here, and you love them. A conflict with their mother should not keep them away from you, but I understand all too much how unreasonable and cruel some people are. Lessening your pain is not a bad thing, but maybe don't let go of everyone at once???

One child is unborn. The other is two. For now, they are straight up inaccessible behind that DIL ice wall. I am functionally clueless to their lives. For sure, DIL side is what the grandkids will have access to and I don't get to know what the yaddahs of those blahs are. For now, I think her last name for me, "Monster-in-law" covers it.

Who knows what the future will hold. I will worry about the formal day cards and presents when the children are old enough to read. The good news is that the other son is not likely to have children. No room for favoritism.

For now, I am just looking for a peaceful acceptance to get me through this day.

I miss my grandson. It hurts.

I hate family politics.

Yeah, being estranged from toxic family for 5 years after being violently attacked, I still had to grieve the loss of them though they're living. No matter that it was by my choice, that had little to do with it, especially since it was a choice due to their behavior problems they couldn't or wouldn't control.

Grief is grief. Fortunately for me, that was exactly when my college assigned 5 death and dying courses to me to teach every year, courses that included re-reading Kubler Ross's On Death and Dying book 5 times a year. I've done that all 5 years now, and it's an oldie but goodie. That book's 5 stages aren't the law, but as guidelines they help not only with coping with grief over a death, but divorce or family strife losses, too.

I've had to grieve over a living person before. Its hard. For me it was/is my father who cut me off for no reason. I think its because he feels guilty, but I'll never really know.

Grief counseling helps.

Yea, the not knowing is the hard part. . . So it seems, sometimes. Other times it seems like the not knowing is a blessing.

I've been through it endless times since my own parents did their own 1950's version of the Toxic Fam Dump when I was one year old. I always wondered how all those relatives could leave us (11 siblings) alone with the freak show we were raised in.

Guess I'll quote Paul Harvey. . . "And this, my friends, is the rest of the story."

Does anybody else miss Paul Harvey?

I still think there may be room for family reconciliation with the help of an experienced professional. Communication is key, and it's not happening. I think that because of the degree of trauma on both sides of the wall, the support of a seasoned professional is crucial to success.

You are absolutely right that the functional communication is not happening. I refuse to believe the domestic tit-for-tat and individually closed doors qualify as communication.

I have tried for family therapy in the past. It has met with the classic passive/resistance. Encouragement to set it up and humiliation on the day nobody but me shows.

Hubs and I are doing fairly well at talking about it between us, but. . . He, too, has been mandated to the Toxic Family Landfill. Sharing among the Toxically judged and dumped is kinda moot. . . Less than prison yard talk?

I never have any luck corralling the cats, but my husband (similarly corporate to your own) seems to have the magic touch to get everybody moving without war or rejection. Any chance you could recruit him for the task? Make it like it's his show and not yours?

I would give it one last shot in that way. These corporate dudes seem to actually believe that things can actually be made to happen, something I have completely lost faith in when I am the author of the activity in question.

And since this is so very important, in your shoes I might well resort to bribery or whatever else might possibly work. The stakes are so very high for you all.

You hit my husband's talent for "corralling cats" right on the bull's eye, Donna.

Alas. . . Guess where the passive/aggressive precedent comes from. We are doing better at talking about it, but just talk and only better. I do not feel any danger of action.

Who knows what the morrow may hold, but for today, it holds no grandchildren. I still feel a need to simply grieve the loss as it is today. What I shared with my grandson is gone.

For family therapy to work, she misquotes a national health website, all people involved must be willing to participate.

When that is not the case, family therapy is not so great.

However---and this is a big humble, toss dirt on it if you want suggestion---there's also this thing called Emoitonal Burnout. Where dealing with te situation is simply so much more than the scorched emotional self can take, that it's counter-productive.

Maybe start by talking to your son, say once a month, five minutes. "Hi, we're alive. Are you? Good, good. Okay. Love ya." Click. ?

Mind you, I'm reading up on how to re-establish with my mom, who seems convinced we will never actually see this through, and I am about ready to do something drastic.

Hence, I spent 90 minutes roll on, roll off with the paint on the porch. My almond color in the can is drying a sort of sunny cream, very yellowy. But I do not freak. OK, it's not the color it looked or I hoped. But it's cheerful and if it doesn't match the house trim, well, hey, I don't like almond-beige anyway, and in winter it will be very sunny, soooo.... Roll on, roll off. It *will* be painted. Just as Mom *will* relocate, even if that, like my paint color, is not what I "ordered".

Trying for paint and philosophy. Fumes may be helping....

GEntle support, Arfie. Is it possible to close a door and leave a heart open?

"Emotional Burnout" might be just the phrase I was looking for. I don't get to know the future, but I do, indeed, feel burnt out on this particular drama. I am ready for some sort of closure. Let the next chapter begin.

I have little experience on this painful topic. I shared a few meaningless text messages with my 23 year old son the other day. "Oh Dad, I love You so much." Let's not mention that you have not attempted to contact me or visit me in over a year. Yes, I feel the love. The cash must be running low again. Or you are friends with my mother on facebook and she wants some info. on the son she loves so much. "Dad, I hope we can keep the communication lines open if that is ok with you." No biggy, I am so excited. If he thinks I am going to open my heart again to get trampled on the r the umpteenth time, I will quote those great philosophers, Metallica, "You Got Another Thing Coming."

Let it go Artie. Put it , "In the Hands of the Man That Stilled the Waters."

Many Hugs.

My support in how ever this goes arfie.
My own daughter who rarely crosses town to see me, but hold my grands in her hands as tools, is doing her own wall building.
Last year when I thought I might move in the future to another place 6 hours drive...put the weight of all her children in guilt on me for being selfish. The heaviest part was of her and my oldest grand, who was the child that John and I helped raise until the court case. Now when over a year has gone that I have tried too many times to reconnect, things have changed as far as her home base is concerned. She took a trip to the south to scout out new home base.
None of the arguments or guilt she gave me, can I visit on her, because it wouldn't matter.
So I wait and the countdown begins.

I hold the business of using children as bargaining chips as the most revolting aspect of our divorce culture. On many levels, it feels like stepping back and staying out of the litigious mother's way is a far more loving an act for the children than playing a part in tearing their hearts and loyalties apart.

Mama wins. That is all. Let us know where to send the trophy. May it bring you and your children sustainable growth and storage units full of non-toxic precious things.