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Dissociation discussion & ideas
Caballita
I thought since this is a habit I suspect I'm going to find VERY hard to break I'd start a thread on it... so that anyone who wants to have a peek at it, can ask questions, add ideas, wrestle with this beastie! I don't have any answers... I probably do have... lots of questions : )
Hugs, Caballita (little Filly)
The comments below are FROM... (they aren't MINE!! lol) http://www.myshrink.com/counseling-theory.php?t_id=13 by Dr Suzanne LaCombe
"There are a number of theories about the dissociative process. Here's one working model:
We experience dissociative states when our nervous system is strained to the limit. We're "too full". In other words, we've inadvertently taken in more stimulation than the nervous system can handle.
Life circumstances can overwhelm the nervous system at any time in our growth or later, for example through physical traumatic events. Unresolved issues and traumas can ignite the dissociative pathways.
It's a matter of degree.
Think of the operating system in a computer. When its' maximum capacity is reached it shuts down inessential software programs in order to save its resources for critical functions, while ensuring that important files are not lost. In effect, the brain does the same thing. When maximum nervous system processing capacity has been reached, the dissociative mechanism comes on line and shuts down less important systems such as our ability to concentrate.
This doesn't always work to your advantage in a modern world. For example, even if you wanted to study for that midterm your nervous system could have other plans!
Dissociation is a type of freeze response
To the degree that you are dissociative, will be the degree of impairment in your ability to take appropriate fight or flight responses (e.g. being physically threatened). In other words, you are more likely to move into freeze whether you want to or not (e.g. freezing at gun point during a bank robbery).
You won't notice when you start to dissociate.
Dissociation comes on-line seamlessly and automatically. That is, you probably won't recognize the moment you start dissociating. As mentioned above, dissociation occurs when too much arousal is triggered in the nervous system. Shutting down some functions saves enough energy for backing up survival-related strategies, such as awareness of non-verbal behaviors in others, or where the door is, etc.
By shutting out irrelevant sensations, enough energy is saved to power optimal cortex (cognitive) and limbic (emotions) functioning.
Parenting Tip
Sadly, unresolved childhood issues can easily be triggered when you take on the role as a parent. Even if you vowed to parent differently those old pathways remain, preventing you from being the attuned, caring parent you want to be. For instance, you may still be able to change your baby's diaper, feed her, even sing to her and play with her, except it feels mechanical, as if one is cut off from one's own heart.
Counselling Tip
Dissociation is like fake relaxation. It numbs your body and your emotions so you feel nothing. It can be akin to a blissful state and as such, can be deceiving to you and your therapist when you attempt relaxation therapy.
If you have a tendency to dissociate and you attempt to do a relaxation technique you may be merely moving into dissociation instead of a relaxation state. Similarly, if you like to meditate all you may be doing is moving into dissociation.
Dr Suzanne LaCombe "Speaking as a client."
It was enormously helpful when my own therapist helped me to recognize when I would start to dissociate in the session. Somatic therapy enabled me to develop increasing capacity to manage larger amounts of stimulation. And, with the help of a good grounding technique I was able to increasingly move out of it. (Grounding helps to discharge the energy.)
As my nervous system became more regulated (i.e. it could handle higher amounts of stimulation) I became less dissociative overall. Once I began to recognize it in myself outside the session, I could take steps to reduce my stimulation in order to reduce it (i.e. make the room quiet, have a hot bath, turn off the radio etc.). So today, whenever I feel dissociative I see it as a sign that my nervous system is maxing out.
BTW, if you're tired of the fogginess and haven't used counselling in the past, there's one very easy way to begin: Try an on-line therapist...
Especially for Therapists
Dissociation is a major stumbling block to progress in therapy because it severely diminishes the client's ability to be present. It's a significant barrier for working on trauma and developmental issues in particular because it can mask the client's true psychophysiological state. Without a clear picture of what's happening, the therapist can't monitor, let alone regulate, the client's level of activation.
Diane Poole Heller likens dissociation to a circuit breaker shutting off when house wiring gets overloaded. She warns that care must be taken in working with dissociation:
"If this is not done slowly, as we are proposing, often what happens is similar to switching the electrical breakers back on without doing something about the over load that caused the breaker to go off in the first place. If therapists have the client connect too quickly, they can often re-traumatize them." pg. 32.
Dr Suzanne LaCombe Speaking as a Therapist
My experience in clinical practice indicates that deep "talk therapy" therapeutic work is not the optimal choice if the client is severely dissociated. As Heller suggests we risk adding to the client's condition by attempting to add more material to the client's already full container.
no digging sign
However, skills must be in place as attempts are made to remove the dissociative "cap" so that the high activation underneath can be dispensed in a titrated, gentle way. Once dissociation is reduced and some resiliency restored to the nervous system, it is far easier to monitor activation levels and move the client through the material.
It's been my impression, however, that many therapists haven't been trained to recognize dissociation. (The subject never even came up in my doctoral education.) They thus risk strengthening dissociative symptoms by prematurely dealing with issues that the client's nervous system is as yet unprepared to process."
References
Heller, Diane P. (2001). Crash Course: A Self-Healing Guide to Auto Accident Trauma & Trauma Recover. Berkely, California: North Atlantic Books.
Hugs, Caballita (little Filly)
The comments below are FROM... (they aren't MINE!! lol) http://www.myshrink.com/counseling-theory.php?t_id=13 by Dr Suzanne LaCombe
"There are a number of theories about the dissociative process. Here's one working model:
We experience dissociative states when our nervous system is strained to the limit. We're "too full". In other words, we've inadvertently taken in more stimulation than the nervous system can handle.
Life circumstances can overwhelm the nervous system at any time in our growth or later, for example through physical traumatic events. Unresolved issues and traumas can ignite the dissociative pathways.
It's a matter of degree.
Think of the operating system in a computer. When its' maximum capacity is reached it shuts down inessential software programs in order to save its resources for critical functions, while ensuring that important files are not lost. In effect, the brain does the same thing. When maximum nervous system processing capacity has been reached, the dissociative mechanism comes on line and shuts down less important systems such as our ability to concentrate.
This doesn't always work to your advantage in a modern world. For example, even if you wanted to study for that midterm your nervous system could have other plans!
Dissociation is a type of freeze response
To the degree that you are dissociative, will be the degree of impairment in your ability to take appropriate fight or flight responses (e.g. being physically threatened). In other words, you are more likely to move into freeze whether you want to or not (e.g. freezing at gun point during a bank robbery).
You won't notice when you start to dissociate.
Dissociation comes on-line seamlessly and automatically. That is, you probably won't recognize the moment you start dissociating. As mentioned above, dissociation occurs when too much arousal is triggered in the nervous system. Shutting down some functions saves enough energy for backing up survival-related strategies, such as awareness of non-verbal behaviors in others, or where the door is, etc.
By shutting out irrelevant sensations, enough energy is saved to power optimal cortex (cognitive) and limbic (emotions) functioning.
Parenting Tip
Sadly, unresolved childhood issues can easily be triggered when you take on the role as a parent. Even if you vowed to parent differently those old pathways remain, preventing you from being the attuned, caring parent you want to be. For instance, you may still be able to change your baby's diaper, feed her, even sing to her and play with her, except it feels mechanical, as if one is cut off from one's own heart.
Counselling Tip
Dissociation is like fake relaxation. It numbs your body and your emotions so you feel nothing. It can be akin to a blissful state and as such, can be deceiving to you and your therapist when you attempt relaxation therapy.
If you have a tendency to dissociate and you attempt to do a relaxation technique you may be merely moving into dissociation instead of a relaxation state. Similarly, if you like to meditate all you may be doing is moving into dissociation.
Dr Suzanne LaCombe "Speaking as a client."
It was enormously helpful when my own therapist helped me to recognize when I would start to dissociate in the session. Somatic therapy enabled me to develop increasing capacity to manage larger amounts of stimulation. And, with the help of a good grounding technique I was able to increasingly move out of it. (Grounding helps to discharge the energy.)
As my nervous system became more regulated (i.e. it could handle higher amounts of stimulation) I became less dissociative overall. Once I began to recognize it in myself outside the session, I could take steps to reduce my stimulation in order to reduce it (i.e. make the room quiet, have a hot bath, turn off the radio etc.). So today, whenever I feel dissociative I see it as a sign that my nervous system is maxing out.
BTW, if you're tired of the fogginess and haven't used counselling in the past, there's one very easy way to begin: Try an on-line therapist...
Especially for Therapists
Dissociation is a major stumbling block to progress in therapy because it severely diminishes the client's ability to be present. It's a significant barrier for working on trauma and developmental issues in particular because it can mask the client's true psychophysiological state. Without a clear picture of what's happening, the therapist can't monitor, let alone regulate, the client's level of activation.
Diane Poole Heller likens dissociation to a circuit breaker shutting off when house wiring gets overloaded. She warns that care must be taken in working with dissociation:
"If this is not done slowly, as we are proposing, often what happens is similar to switching the electrical breakers back on without doing something about the over load that caused the breaker to go off in the first place. If therapists have the client connect too quickly, they can often re-traumatize them." pg. 32.
Dr Suzanne LaCombe Speaking as a Therapist
My experience in clinical practice indicates that deep "talk therapy" therapeutic work is not the optimal choice if the client is severely dissociated. As Heller suggests we risk adding to the client's condition by attempting to add more material to the client's already full container.
no digging sign
However, skills must be in place as attempts are made to remove the dissociative "cap" so that the high activation underneath can be dispensed in a titrated, gentle way. Once dissociation is reduced and some resiliency restored to the nervous system, it is far easier to monitor activation levels and move the client through the material.
It's been my impression, however, that many therapists haven't been trained to recognize dissociation. (The subject never even came up in my doctoral education.) They thus risk strengthening dissociative symptoms by prematurely dealing with issues that the client's nervous system is as yet unprepared to process."
References
Heller, Diane P. (2001). Crash Course: A Self-Healing Guide to Auto Accident Trauma & Trauma Recover. Berkely, California: North Atlantic Books.
I wonder... I have tremendous issues with my memory. I assumed that there's so much on my kind that perhaps I'm just not truly taking in what someone is saying, though I've gotten quite good at pretending. But now I'm wondering if it may be a type of dissociation. Although, it's not always in times of crisis or (a conscious) trigger. Can it happen during every day kind of events/conversations? There are times when someone will mention something to me (like a craft idea from the kids to Nana) as if I know what they're talking about and I have absolutely no memory of even discussing it, let alone the fact that I was the one who was assigned to facilitate it.
Her: I have that canvas, I'll paint the sides black before I get it to you.
Me:
Her: For mom?
Me: What about her? I thought we were doing the cement foot prints.
Her: Yeah, but we're also doing the owl foot prints on the canvas. I just reminded you about it a few days ago when you didn't know what I was talking about then... You said you'd paint the tree, remember?
No: Not at all.
Me: Did you leave this canvas on my table...?
Other times it's something trivial where I am fully aware that I am asking something that I KNOW I should know the answer to.
Me: Did you say you wanted to go to the cardiologist appointment with me?
Her: Yep!
Me: ok. So what are we doing about the kids? The appointment is at 3:45, no way you'll be able to pick them up at 4:30
Her: We've already talked about this. Your appointment is at 3. Your hair appointment is at 3:45. I'll have time to grab the kids.
So frustrating!!
Another characteristic of disassociation is when you feel like your not actually here at all...an example I've seen used often to describe it , is "feeling like you're a robot"
I found that kinda funny the first time I read it , because I actually have referred to myself as a robot many times , feeling kind of like I am just floating through life, day to day, on a cloud andtthe world and everything is just a dream .
I really only feel like that when I am literally at the end of my rope .
And rhe last example of something ive experienced , without going into too much detail, but I don't know if its disassociation or not, is in certain situations ive put, or found myself in, I would kinda like, well..leave my body. I was there, and in the act, but my mind, and my soul and feelings ,went to Hawaii and got a nice tan till that situation ended and it Was safe to come back.
I've also used the robot term to describe myself (but only in self talk as I don't discuss it with anyone). I didn't realize that is a symptom of dissociation, but it makes perfect sense. Perhaps that's the culprit if my day-to-day memory loss. As well as the imaginary trips to Hawaii ;)
I know. That's what frustrates me about it. I myself don't turn it on and off. It's frustrated people in relationships with me, too. People would think I was willfully ignoring them, or not interested in them at times. So sad it led to misunderstanding.
"You're talking with your friend, you hear her voice, you're nodding in agreement but you're not really there--you're physically with her, but not all there. Then your friend waves her hand in front of your face--"woohoo!!"--and you pop back into awareness!"
You end up with no conscious memory of what they've just said because... YOU weren't there!
It can also happen due to boredom, instead of stress over load, which is why people experience so called "highway hypnosis". They drive for miles with no conscious memory of having been there. That's probably why I prefer my motorbike to my car... it fully engages my brain and I stay "present" while I'm riding in a good way!
Helpfully, one clue you may have "spaced out" that others may be able to spot if they know to LOOK for it is... often a dissociated person will be observed STARING at nothing in particular... the conscious brain, possibly over loaded, has temporarily switched off...
Remember I mentioned on CC's post that it is addictive & self-reinforcing so the less "present" you become... the more "likely" you are going to dissociate... I'll copy in the post from CC's thread cos those two particular points about dissociating really threw me... arghhhh!
Chronic, habitual, dissociation is a very serious problem no matter where on the continuum the person appears... and once you get ON the continuum it's a slippery slope for a couple of really important reasons...
1. When a person enters dissociation opiates are released in the brain. These make the person feel numb and suppress emotional pain. This is probably why it becomes increasingly tempting for your mind to dissociate... it's quite literally ADDICTIVE!
2. It significantly impairs people's ability to interact with others... it isolates the person... they end up either stuck inside themselves or stuck outside themselves. Then because they are then stuck and CAN'T interact with others this triggers more stress, more dissociation... it's self-REINFORCING... arghhh!
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This list below is interesting... it's from http://www.mind.org.uk/information-support/types-of-mental-health-problems/dissociative-disorders/#.VJePQsBE
According to that website there are five response types of dissociation: A person can experience more than one type of response. The response may depend on the emotions that the situation engenders/provokes/triggers...
Amnesia
This is when you cant remember incidents or experiences that happened at a particular time, or when you cant remember important personal information.
Depersonalisation
A feeling that your body is unreal, changing or dissolving. It also includes out-of-body experiences, such as seeing yourself as if watching a movie.
Derealisation
The world around you seems unreal. You may see objects changing in shape, size or colour, or you may feel that other people are robots.
Identity confusion
Feeling uncertain about who you are. You may feel as if there is a struggle within to define yourself.
Identity alteration
This is when there is a shift in your role or identity that changes your behaviour in ways that others could notice. For instance, you may be very different at work from when you are at home.
In addition they list some potential effects...
"The effects of dissociative disorder may include:
gaps in your memory
finding yourself in a strange place without knowing how you got there
out-of-body experiences
loss of feeling in parts of your body
distorted views of your body
forgetting important personal information
being unable to recognise your image in a mirror
a sense of detachment from your emotions
the impression of watching a movie of yourself
feelings of being unreal
internal voices and dialogue
feeling detached from the world
forgetting appointments
feeling that a customary environment is unfamiliar
a sense that what is happening is unreal
forgetting a talent or learned skill
a sense that people you know are strangers
a perception of objects changing shape, colour or size
feeling you dont know who you are
acting like different people, including child-like behaviour
being unsure of the boundaries between yourself and others
feeling like a stranger to yourself
being confused about your sexuality or gender
feeling like there are different people inside you
referring to yourself as we
being told by others that you have behaved out of character
finding items in your possession that you dont remember buying or receiving
writing in different handwriting
having knowledge of a subject you dont recall studying.
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That last one doesn't sound like a disadvantage, rofl... I'd love to have knowledge I hadn't had to study for...
I've also seen elsewhere that instead of getting stuck OUTSIDE your body you can get stuck INSIDE it! Eeeek! I may be stuck outside but I kindof prefer that, given two crappy choices, to having gotten stuck inside...
Typically I'm emotionally as flat as a pancake... in a permanent emotional "time OUT"
"Dissociation is like fake relaxation. It numbs your body and your emotions so you feel nothing. It can be akin to a blissful state and as such, can be deceiving..." (excerpt from article posted above)
However, sometimes I go DARK... very DARK... I'm overwhelmed by incredibly painful emotions and I want oblivion more than anything ...
Now here is the "light bulb" ~ "Diane Poole Heller likens dissociation to a circuit breaker shutting off when house wiring gets overloaded. She warns that care must be taken in working with dissociation:
"If this is not done slowly, as we are proposing, often what happens is similar to switching the electrical breakers back on without doing something about the over load that caused the breaker to go off in the first place. If therapists have the client connect too quickly, they can often re-traumatize them." pg. 32."... WOW!
So maybe my emotional "circuit breaker" is switched OFF and then if something tries switching it back "ON" it triggers the suicidal ideation and dark thoughts because it is too much all at once, just having emotions let go on you like that all at once is too much... interesting... hmmm!
So what I could take FROM that is to note what may have triggered the darkness, what was happening just before my emotions TRIED to come back "on-line"...
Having emotions isn't a bad thing it's as natural as being thirsty and having a glass of water... However, being thirsty AND getting dumped in the ocean to solve that... not funny PTSD you really are a pain in the backside, grrrr! lol, sigh