I don't get it?

Well, it makes me mad that the nice guy was in him, the potential was there all along, yet he chose to be abusive with me, when he could have been nice, as obviously he can...

Oh ok now i see what your saying, so you feel like 20 years had gone by and that was a waste?

I understand what ur saying. "If you can be nice... why have you been such a creep for sooo long?!" And u kind of are always waiting for the other shoe to fall right? Waiting for that mask to come back off. I guess after a year ur probably pretty sure of him. Maybe? I am not sure that even if they become model citizens I'd ever be able to trust that its not just an act. I think I'd always be watching close for cracks in the mask. I'd drive myself crazy.

I`d drive myself mad too.

I think that sometimes, there can just be too much damage done. It shouldn't have to be the case that you need to raise hell to get your partner to stop abusing and to consider you. They should be doing it anyway.

Some people do wait and hope for the change to happen, but even if they suspect it has, the price of waiting and enduring what came before may end up being too high. And that's okay. It`s not a bargain - "he changes, you are obligated to stay" - kind of situation. He is still responsible for what pushed you away and killed the feelings before.

Huge hugs xxx

Thanks guys :-). Just wanted reality check on how I'm feeling. And yes, we should not have wasted 20 years living in hell...
Also, you are right! This is not a bargain...

I can understand that you still have trust issues if he was abusive to you in 20 years, trust is something you will need more time building up again. If he truly has changed this good, he should deserve having his chance in showing this. Also forgiving him for all the bad he has done in the past, and try starting everything all new again.

Um I have to disagree. They shouldn't be changing just to deserve another chance and we should NEVER feel obligated either by ourselves or by ayone else to give them one. We have given them thousands and thousands of chances. IF they take the time to truly change it has to be with absolutely no expectation towards their victim. They can't say ( and noone else should either imo) "well I changed so now you have to forgive me and move on."
You may never be able to trust that person again. Heck u are going to have trouble trusting urself and random other people in ur life at this point. That u should give them a chance because of how much they've changed mentality is (excuse me) just pure and total BULL SHIT!
Sorry
Hugs hope you have a good day

rosehipcreek you sure have to decide for yourself, if you need to separate to have more time figuring this all more out, do so. I don't know what was the reason behind why he did treat you that way, but some abusive people can change.

From what you write you say that you really want to move on with a healthy loving relationship, only you can decide if you are ready with forgiving and giving the relationship a new chance. It is very understandable that you find it difficult trusting him now, and it will need a lot of time building up a trust that is shattered down to the ground. I do would suggest that you take some time away from him thinking everything through as well as going to counseling, just to get everything more into perspective. You will have people here giving you different advices, but only you can fully know what you think is right to do for yourself.

I wish you all the best, and I hope you will have a peace of mind in whatever you choose doing.

giglemon: Thanks for the hug. I will sure have a good day. :-) I wish you the same. And a hug back to you as well. ;-)

Welcome to the forum,
to both rosehipcreek
and SunflowerDelight.

Are there abusers who
can genuinely change
for the better?

We hear about them
from time to time.
Based on my own
personal and clinical
experience, the incidences
of an abuser becoming a
non-abuser are possibly
one percent. (The literature
lists the percentage as
slightly higher, but that's
NOT my experience. I
frankly have serious
doubts about the
accuracy of the the
statistics in the
literature.)

Research shows that
the physiology of the
brain makes it "plastic,"
or changeable.

But the circumstances
that effect the plasticity
of the brain have many
variables.

Behavior patterns that
become imprinted
during childhood
require some significant
change agents to enable
a person to permanently,
reverse certain dysfunctional
patterns. Smokers may
become non-smokers.
Alcoholics may become
sober. Drug users may
get clean and stay clean.

Occasionally we hear about
abusers able to become
non-abusive. These changes
seem to be even tougher
than the ones I listed above.
When they occur, they're
certainly cause for celebration.

In regards to whether we can
trust an apparently changed
partner or not. . . . . personally. . .
my position would be that I'd be
happy that there may be a fresh
start and IN ADDITION to that. . . .
I'd share with my apparently
changed hopefully-now-former
abuser that if any particular
abusive behavior shows up
AT ANY POINT IN TIME ----
twice ------ the relationship
is over. (I'd give them a
pass once ---- which I think
is generous ---- because
we're all human. But not
twice.)

As a clinician, if you were
my client, rosiehipcreek,
I'd have to share with you
that there's a possibility
that even a year of someone
being apparently a hundred
eighty degrees different than
they used to be, may not be
evidence that a fundamental
change has occurred. I'd
say this, not to be a joy killer,
but to give you information
that might help you be aware
that twenty years of habitual
behavior patterns don't usually
get changed quickly or totally.

Sending you hugs
and wishes for all
good things
going forward.

I had to learn to accept both the nice and awful sides of my wife and I recommend doing that... accept him for who he really is, a guy that abused for 20 years and has been nice for 1. And accept that when a person behaves a certain way in the past they might go back to that behavior. After 20 years of abuse no one "deserves" a chance, and you deserve to do what is best for you, and only you can decide what that is! Take your time and be nice to yourself! There's no time limit. You can decide now or a year from now or ten years from now. You always have a choice!

Great advice from my counselor: "Choices help keep us from being victims."

Thanks, all of you.
And yes, dysfunctional patterns are extremely difficult to change, I notice slight violation of boundaries on a daily basis. Simple things, such as: we have a discussion about whether we should go to place X with the kids, we come to the conclusion that no, we are not able to to, then he turns around and completely ignores our agreement on it and tells the kids that if they "are good for mommy", we could go to place X. And he has a really hard time understanding why that was wrong or disrespectful. This is why our relationship has become a teacher/pupil set-up. he wants to learn, but I do have to coach him constantly. Now, if we did not have our dysfunctional past, I probably wouldn't even raise an eyebrow, but these little things push the old buttons...
And yes, what I learned after all this is that love is 1% passion and 99% trust and respect...which is the hard one to feel these days...even with the improved hubby :-).
I run 3.6 miles every morning in a natural setting, and it has been amazing for how it helps my mood and to clear my mind. I can highly recommend it. if you get through the first 15 minutes, you can literally feel how you are getting better.

Did your husband participate in an abuse intervention program?

Aral 2003, no, he did not participate in any abuse prevention program, but he actually found a really good therapist.

I don't know rosehipcreek,

If he is still doing the kinds of things you described, and he needs to be coached every step of the way any of these wonderful things you say you've seen sound superficial, surface change to me. I would not say, regardless of your trust issues, that this bodes well for the future. I think you've got two separate issues there. I can only know what you've posted, and I can read between the lines any number of things from it-which means my stuff gets mixed in there-but I just get this gut feeling that there's still so much unresolved, untouched that will come out sideways, one way or another-and whatever decision you make it would benefit you to be aware of as much of it as you can get clarity about. Just little things you said about yourself and him that tell me he is still a wolf in sheep's clothing, and you are still a vulnerable lamb.