You have a point but have to remember we aren't spokespersons or professionals and most of us just want to vent. It shouldn't be taken so personally when a person says all men this or all women that because it's just hurt people talking. I know when I'm really hurt or upset I tend to do thta too, and I don't really worry about being politically correct when I do.

starfish, i understand what you are saying, but I think that its still important that, when we are venting, we are mindful of what we are REALLY saying... NOT for the benefit of others, or because we might offend someone, but TRULY because when we talk, WE are listening on a deeper level, and if we start making sweeping generalizations about, for example 'men' when what we meant was "THIS particular man... or even SOME men" we run the risk of growing a root of distrust for ALL of those who may fit that description, albeit subconciously, and this could hamper our ability to heal and move forward into healthier relationships if we are fueling dis-ease between ourselves and an entire group of actually innocent people who have been lumped into a generalization.

surely that is the most exhaustive run-on sentence I've written to date.

As I was reading an article lately, I had to be very diligent to undo what the author was subconciously doing, as it could have been damaging to remain ignorant to it. Let me explain. I was reading a ten page article about abuse and recognizing the patterns that abusers demonstrate, the way they think, act, etc... I have been a victim of abuse, and so it could have been very easy for me to read it with a pointed finger outward. (for the record, I am a woman) But I have learned one important thing on my journey... I suffered abuses as a child that managed to wiedle their way into my own behaviors and coping strategies. Truth, I had unknowingly adopted some of the behaviors and thought processes that abusers exhibit. This is something that I have examined closely, and have to keep in the forefront of my awareness, especially when I am feeling upset or out of balance. I have also been very definatively on the receiving end, and from that vantage point, could have read the entire article nodding and going "yup, he did that, and that, and uh huh, that too... that rat bastard" and easily glanced over the less comfortable "yeah, I'm prone to that, I need to watch myself to not do that, and I'm thankful I've learned not to think like THAT anymore"... For most of us who have suffered abuse at the hands of others, it can be easy to focus outwardly. And indeed, we should be aware of the behaviors and tendancies of others and know what to look for and avoid. valid. important. But its a little less common, I think, for a person who may have had an abusive parent to consider that they may have inadvertantly adopted some of the subtler traits... well... its that much easier to overlook when the article is written with the perverted assumption that the abuser was "he" and the victim was "she"...

Its not only unfair and gender biased, its subconciously validating to women that they are strictly the victims, and that men are strictly the offenders. Truth be told, there are many men who are psychologically tormented by the cunning women in their lives, who, because they are not physically battering the man, do plenty of crazymaking of their own, and do so in the shadows of innocence and helplessness.

Victims and abusers come in both genders. And often abusers became abusers because they first were victimized. Not everyone... I'm not accusing victims of being abusers... but in some cases, those who have been legitimately victimized can take on characteristics of the abuser as they seek out strategies for survival.

russ, I do agree in part, though, with starfish that we shouldn't take it personally. Ultimately, no one has the power to tell me who I am, and no amount of anyone telling me that "women are this or that" is going to change whether that description actually fits me or not. By knowing clearly when it doesn't apply to you, you can keep yourself from getting offended personally and just release it as their limitation (which isn't intended to be an insult, as we all have limitations).

You could call me ugly all day long... but unless I agree with you on some level, those words have no power whatsoever. You can disempower the words. Its actually the only real power you have. We cannot, as much as we might want to, dictate how others choose to express themselves. But we can choose whether we are going to let it hit us in our sore spot, and when the spot is sore, it may need the attention anyway. ;)

I understand your point though. And I agree that its a dangerous and damaging use of language.... not just interpersonally, but culturally, and subconciously damaging to the individual who is speaking those words to themselves.

I have a 14 year old son so I am hyper aware of the messages that are given with advertizing especially. I'll be watching tv with him and I'll comment..."I hate these commercials...they make guys look like complete idiots". So I get that.
When I post on here I will not be politically correct. I will post what I'm feeling, period. My dad beat my mom unmercifully, he beat us kids unmercifully, my husband is an abusive asshole. Those are my facts. But I promise you, I love men, I love my son and I'm so proud of him. I build him up and teach him how to be an honorable man so that he doesn't continue the generations of abuse that preceed him. I encourage him to hang with his dad. I tell him that his dad really loves him and praise my husband, to my son, when he does right by Tommy. I do all of this for the love of my son because it is the right thing to do.
As far as Oprah or Doctor Phil, I love watching them, but I'm not a zombie idiot that takes everything they dish out as my truth.
I am really sorry that your Grandma beat you. That is horrific and wrong. You deserved better. You were an innocent child and if I was there, I would have protected you, no matter what. Take care. Love, Me

Hey starfish... I understand.. I'm suffering a lot of pain lately... fell down some stairs then slipped on the Ice... I'm 55, and don't bounce well...
I wish I could express myself as well as Aikijedi, she certainly has knowledge, and the ability to express it well...
Thank all of you ...russ

I personally was abused by a male....I am NOT saying ALL males are abusers.......but I WILL NOT be told how to post or respond on here by you Russ, or anyone else....and thats my 2 cents worth!

message to abfab... sorry I never intended to dictate how anyone should write rather I ment to suggest it might help to heal if we didn't use the term all men or all women...
also it seems there are very few men here to express their feelings...
I can only say what I feel.. sorry if I aint the sharpest tool in the shed..house... russ

Hey Russ...I here you...why don't you start a men's group for emotional and physical abuse...I don't know if you are a child of an alcoholic, I know you are of abuse, but search for "Adult Children of Alcoholism" or Adult Children of Abuse"...believe me, the folks in there are of all genders, rich/poor, black, white and every other color...child abuse has no boundries. Good luck, but you are right, you can share what you want on here, anytime. No biggy.

PS...You'll never here me dis all men. If I'm talking about my abuser, my husband, and because he happens to be a man, doesn't in any way shape or form, mean "all men". That would be rediculous!

russ i try to be abmiguous when it comes to ex - if i am writing about my ex bf is will state as much - i rarely use the term him or her or whatever but try to generalize by using the term 'they' please try to get past the male female thing and msg me if you want to discuss a bit more about how you feel - i am quite willing to listen as abuse has no sex to it - hope you are starting to feel a bit safer on the site but really most of us are just referring to our own abuser and any literature that is copied tends to specify males but we are all intelligent on this site an know tht abuse has no boundaries - all my best jd ps msg me

I think the moral of this topic is that peole just want to be able to post how they want to and not be nitpicked about their writing. It could be worse on another forum I had peole hwo wouldn't even take notice of the topic and only attacked my spelling ,i thought thta was pretty sad.