The way I look at it is that, sure some of them don't do it deliberately and don't entirely know what they are doing. But it doesn't take a genius to see pain and to want to stop that pain. You don't have to be brilliant or incredibly self-aware to know that it's not fair to have one rule for me and another rule for you.

Perhaps in the moment, he doesn't see what he's doing. But he does see the effect.

Also, if they don't know what they are doing or don't know that it's wrong - why do they not act abusive from day one, why is there such a thing as the honeymoon phase, why do they hoover, why do they promise things will be better, etc etc.

They know that what they are doing is unacceptable, whether they admit to "wrong" or not, they KNOW they'd never get a partner if they acted that way to start with.

i agree with livin 100 percent

I've wondered the same thing stacy.
In my case I guess I thought I could have more understanding for his "anger issues" (plain old abuse) if I thought he couldn't help it or didn't know he is abusive. I guess like you said, I think I was making excuses. It sure can make you feel crazy. Since I came to the conclusion it didn't matter if he knew it, it was damaging me and keeping my mind twisted. Now I have plans to leave and I'm feeling better most days. I don't know what I'll feel when I walk out of here though.


Wow Livn, I had never thought of it that way. That really helps.

Livn is on target, as usual.

I'll just add that part of the
emotional injury that propels
abusers, also compells them
to justify their bad behavior.
So, for some of them, in
some instances, no matter
how they hurt others, they
will find a way to make it
the other person's faul.t

And the bottom line. . . .
whatever they know, don't know,
do consciously or don't do consciously,
do purposefully with intent or do without
intent . . . . . . . . . . if someone is abusive,
they're abusive.

Abuse is toxic

and we're entitled to live our life
toxin-free.

My abuser kept beating me up over petty things. When we were to come to USA from our country (he had been to USA before but not me) he told me not to be afraid of beating because here in USA you can call 911 and get help.So he knew it was legally wrong to beat his wife and also was aware of the pain he used to inflict on me (he used to be sorry after the beating is over few times). Still he did it even here in USA and was far worse since he knew I was new to this country with no support and took full advantage of that fact........do you still think he did that all unintentionally.

He touched a very drunk lady sexually on flight when I was sitting next to him.He would have literally killed me if I had done that to a drunk man. He said so in our conversation after I left him.So why does he do things he knows are wrong?

I have come to the conclusion that intentional or not intentional this behaviour is going to stay for pretty much rest of his life. So it is really my choice whether to suffer or not to suffer. I had that choice and I chose wisely then 6 yrs ago. I am abuse free away from that monster for last 6 years with no contact and will be that way until I die.

one of the reasons i found it so hard to leave the ex is because i knew that he had such a horrible childhood, lots of abuse, alcoholism, etc. this made me feel bad for him... he was seriously damaged by his parents and he didn't seem to realize that he was acting abusive. i don't think he WANTED to be a horrible person, he just couldn't help it. i thought that he felt a lot of shame and guilt at the time, but now i don't know. one of the traits of a narcissist is that they don't empathize, so who knows? i DO know that he felt justified in causing pain.

at any rate, ilene is right! regardless of whether they know it or not, or can control it or not, we have a right to live abuse-free.

one more thing: i had a terrible childhood also. my father was emotionally abusive toward us and my mother allowed it to go on because SHE came from an abusive family. when i had my son (he's 3 now), i vowed to break that cycle. i got on medication, regularly see a therapist, meditate, do yoga, and do anything else i can to examine myself, my motives, my stress levels, etc., so i can treat my son with the love and respect he deserves, and so i can have the happiness i deserve. that's the difference right there. WE are doing something. WE recognize a need for change and try to make those changes. our abusers do NOT.

i love that you're examining this question, stacyleanne. it's a core issue for so many of us.

wow. I'll just second everyone here..I still wrestle with wondering if my husband did it all deliberately, or didn't know when he was doing it, but would see after and feel bad..he seemed very out of control to me.

but then, when I talked about leaving, and he said some terrible, awful, abusive things to me-I could see that those things were deliberate-it wasn't like him having a bad day and blowing up-it was him knowing that the power he had over me was shifting, and he completely made a right turn to scare me into going back into that scared place where I would just stay.

then I got to that place where I didn't care if it was deliberate, calculated, uncontrollable..whatever..it was abuse and I didn't want it.

I've found mean little things, where on MSN he told a friend that he was going to 'cook my goose' and that HAD to be deliberate that he wrote that, and messages where he was trying to become sexual with someone (none of those women took the bait!!)..and THAT was deliberate-it's not like he was a zombie, being controlled by some evil superpower somewhere..

so maybe some things are deliberate, and some things they are just lost in the moment...

but it's all abuse. they allowed it to happen.

sorry if this message is bad grammar, misspelt, I had a rough night and no sleep last night (not from him-my 7 year old crawled into bed with me last night and squished me, kept getting up, elbowed me in the head, and I'm FREAKING exhausted!!)..

I have never been able to answer that question satisfactorily about my abuser. I would think that he didn't do it deliberately but was just such a manipulative, sadistic person that he just thought in abusive terms without realizing what he was doing. On the other hand when the abuse was over he would go to such great lengths to "make it up to me" and apologize so profusely (interspersed with how he would have to kill me if I left because he couldn't live without me). If he recognizes after the fact that what he did was wrong then how can he not know it is wrong while he is doing it?

Thanks for the advice guys! I just continue to wrestle with the question of whether or not it was ME? Maybe I made him like that, which he told me all the time.

And...even when i do realize it is him and get angry, why do I miss him so much. Those good times where he was there no matter what and wanted to make me feel better?

Abusers come from all sorts of backgrounds and thus have different levels of awareness of their abusive actions. This is especially true in the heat of the moment when they are being abusive.

Without knowing your guy or his background it's impossible to for me to know what his reasons are for being abusive and his level of awareness of the abuse he dishes out.

Some abusers have a mental illness. Bi-polar comes to mind. In bi-polar afflicted individuals they literally lose all control of their emotions when one of their triggers is engaged. Some bi-polar individuals cycle back and forth between "I love you/I hate you" once every few months to as often as many times a day. When they switch back to the "I love you" phase their become aware of their actions and typically apologize only to abuse you again in the future in a similar manner.

Fact is, no one deserves to be abused and no one has to put up with it. While you can't control your mans behavior there is one factor you can control:

Yourself: You can choose how you react to his abuse. Often times when people are emotionally abused it triggers their buttons and they will often times fight back with venom. Two wrong don't make a right and in this situation only adds fuel to the fire. If you find yourself in the middle of a verbal/emotionally abusive onslaught, the best thing to do is say, you don't appreciate how you are being treated and tell him you need to take 10 minutes alone and walk away. Give him a chance to cool off. Once he's cooled off try talking about the situation and how it made you feel.

Your other options is to end the relationship. If he's unwilling to get help for his issues, then walking away may be your best course of action. There are millions of guys out there who are not abusive and there is no reason for you to settle for one who is.

I hope this helps.

Hello, dailygrind, and welcome to the community.

Please don't take this as a criticism
but I feel there are important issues
to which I'd like to respond.

You wrote:

Without knowing your guy or his background it's impossible to for me to know what his reasons are for being abusive. . . . . . . . . . . .


It' seems like a non sequitur (not logical), to
talk about reasons why an abuser is abusive.
One might imagine that you're suggesting that
there's some reasonable rationale for an incident
of abuse or the on-going pattern of abuse.

That wasn't what you were trying to say, was it?

Also, as most of us survivors have found in
our journey through and away from abuse,
attempting to talk about "the situation" with
the abuser, and how telling him or her how
it made us feel, is at best, ineffective
(generally, the only way an abuser "cares"
about his or her victim's feelings, is to feel
satisfaction in having hit the mark and justified
for doing so) ----- and may, in some cases, put
the victim at increased risk of injury.

I totally agree with what you said
when you wrote:

Your other options is to end the relationship. If he's unwilling to get help for his issues, then walking away may be your best course of action. There are millions of guys out there who are not abusive and there is no reason for you to settle for one who is.

Absolutely. And if you
choose to leave, please
develop and implement
a safety plan.

Then find a healthy, reasonably functioning person
and embark on an abuse-free relationship!

Hello IlleneW,

Thank you for the comment. I see your point. Reason and logic often don't apply when it comes to an abuser. I meant to say cause rather than reason. Causes can often be for instance, abuse the abuser experienced as a child or mental illness.

In some cases talking to an abuser with an appropriate mediator (psychologist) can help the situation and can provide effective tools for the abused to deal with an abuser. If an abuser is willing to admit to the problem and seek help, they can heal in time. In many cases however, the abuser fails to take responsibility and will not seek help. In those cases, removing them from ones life seems to be the only effective approach.

Stacy, you did not "make" him abuse you. None of us can change who another person is, none of us can "make" anyone be anything. You no more made him an abuser than the gazelle makes a lion a predator.

It's interesting that these types imbue us with this extraordinary power to control who they are and what they do: "you made me do it" and yet in any other aspect of our lives we are useless and incompetent. All powerful and weak at the same time.

He makes his own choices. His actions are his own responsibility. One of the problems with abusers is that they almost never take responsibility for their actions. Instead, they lie, they blame shift and they project.

As for why you miss him so much ... the other thing about abusers is they tend to be extreme - the good is VERY good, though the bad his horrid. But you can't separate the two, they come as a package. And over time, the good becomes less and less frequent and the bad becomes more and more horrid. This is where I think Ilene's index card exercise helps, helps remember the bad when human nature has us remembering only the good and downplaying the bad.

Thanks Livn.

It just sucks that I can tell myself all this over and over and over again and still feel so awful! I know it takes time but it just hurts so bad before time is enough.

I questioned my ex on why he said the things he did and asked him if he was aware of what he was doing. I believed that he didnt know he was doing it and that he really didnt mean it.

His answer to me was YES IM COMPLETELY AWARE THAT I WAS/AM HURTING YOU. Did that make him apologise, NO. Did that make him truely sorry for what he had said or done NO. He didnt care. His aim was to hurt me. He admitted that. To this day he believes that he SAYS THINGS IN THE HEAT OF THE MOMENT and truely believes he is a really nice guy.

There is no excuse for cruelty and abuse huni. No excuse at all.

Kisses xx