Hmm. I wonder if there is a way to watch online. This sounds like what I am dealing with. Most of the time it feels like there is absolutely no way to present even the most basic facts without her mis-interpreting and getting upset.

Ilene- Yes! This has been my experience! It does not matter what I try or do, no matter how simply I tried to break down the point I was tryingto make, no matter how much evidence I collected to soothe his insecurities and reconcile them with the truth... Nothing worked!

I cannot squeeze a rational reaction from this man, no matter how hard I try!

I keep trying because it is so hard for me to believe that people can really function this way! He shows proof of being able to follow logical thoughts at work, but with me he exhibits absolutely no reason or logic!

I wanted him to see how hard I was trying, what a good partner I was and that I did love him (he always says the love was one-sided.. And I always ironically, felt the same).

It is like talking to a brick wall! Seriously, I have traveled to remote reguons of countries where I do not speak the language, and felt more understood!

The concept of someone being permanently broken is very hard for me to accept. I guess it is because of my own past... I should have been permanently broken by many people's standards... Abusive home, molested, later raped, homeless (for a shot period of time), used drugs Anderson was promiscuous (to ensure I always had a place to sleep and food to eat... I left home as a minor). I saw people shot, more than once.

In spite of my past, I grew strong and actively engaged in my own healing. I put myself through college, published articles and short fiction, have owned my own business for 14 years and owned 3 houses by the time I was 25. After the economy crashed, I realized I had been trying to gain approval from my parents that I was never going to get (they lost a lot of money... And for the first time in their lives, I was out-earning them. But even then, I was not ever told they were proud of me or what I had accomplished). I down-sized my life. I didn't like the person I was becoming. I adopted a dog and spent more time hiking and traveling than I did worrying about what other people thought of me...

I still have my issues, but I was able heal (albeit I am a work in progress).... So why can't he?

Why am I not broken, and he is? I don't get it....


And I mean this as a serious question to the board! How was I able to heal, while he cannot even act rationally or follow simple logic?

I am totally confused.

Mine actually makes rational noises. Talks a good game like he actually understands and agrees to what i am saying and then does whatever he wants anyway. his actions never change and are soo predictable!

I'm with one of "these" too! I'm slowly realizing and beginning the process of accepting that I will never "win" with him. He always has an excuse, an explanation, an argument that makes me wrong in how I feel or perceive things. Freedom I think you mentioned in a prior post that your dad was an attorney, and so is my husband. He's not a courtroom guy, but he sure does have the argument skills that he would need there. In my efforts to stand up to him lately, I've realized that, at first, it felt good that he stopped the overt verbal abuse, meaning blatantly putting me down, telling me I was being ridiculous, obvious twisting of my words, etc. But the more comfortable I get in expressing myself, the more clearly I see his complete inability to accept responsibility for being anything other than "just a man trying to do his best to provide for and protect his family". That's his bottom line that he ALWAYS comes back to. "Provide for" = control all money and "protect" means isolate and dominate to this guy.

It's unbelievable that your ex seems to have talked himself into believing that you were the one who cheated, lied, etc., when that's all the stuff he did. Unbelievable to those of us who are rational, feeling people! Just like it's totally unbelievable to me that my husband looked me in the eye and in all seriousness blamed his groping of my body parts in public and in front of our kids on his stress from work. Garbage!

I didn't know till the end of the show,
that it's a two-parter,the second half
to be aired tomorrow.

The first part was hard to watch.
He was AWFUL!!!!!!!!!!

Sometimes, in one of these shows,
the perpetrator actually comes around,
or at least APPEARS to come around,
to some insight.

Not this guy!

What a s***t-head!

Anyway. . . . . . .

I felt so bad for the woman
who endured him. So sad
that there are so many of him
(of both genders)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Let's hope that tomorrow
the victim gets
a bead on a new life
free of abuse!

Ilene, I didn't see it, but I was married to man like that. He's bad enough that his own atty didn't put him on the witness stand in his own defense, because he lied so much that he crossed himself over and over when my atty cross examined him. If he's not lying, I guess he's not living. He has to be manipulating someone in order to feel anything.

Which is why 7 years out, when the dogs start barking on my phone (that's his ringer, dogs barking) I still don't answer his calls. He can't hurt me, it's just that I want to know what he wants before I talk to him. I want to see how he's twisting the truth to try to get me to do something that is never in my best interest. Usually, I end up saying I'll talk to my atty about it and hanging up.

Hyper-vigilance is how I still have to live when he surfaces. For me, for my son. Pathological lying, and being irrational, is so often a hallmark of an abuser.

I mentioned this in another post but relevant here so I'll mention again. The book "Foolproofing your Life" by Jan Silvious speaks to exactly this issue. It was like walking into a lighting store for me. (and the kind of store that only uses REVEAL bulbs) :-) okay sorry that was a bit lame.

I am coming to realize that when the crazy vacuum gets turned on (you know what I mean here!) the only smart thing to do is RUN! Maybe you don't need to even leave their presence but when your dander goes up know that the vacuum is coming. I used to stick around and inspect and investigate the vacuum but the thing about vacuums is they suck everything up anywhere around them. You best just get out of the way.

Instead now when my dander goes up and the crazy bus is taking the Disneyland tour I choose not to go to Disneyland. I stop. Before I jump in to get him to see how completely unreasonable he's being and even irrelevant (sometimes just bizarre) I instead STOP. Recognize what's happening. Are your muscles getting tense? Is your stomach starting to knot? Are you waiting for him to hurry up and finish so you can interject your reasoning? In those moments its explaining trigonometry to a 5 year old. He's not going to get it nor does he care to try. Hear the bus brakes screeching to a halt and the whoosh as the doors are opening. Get the visual that he's asking you to jump on the bus. You don't have to go! There is no real Disneyland on the end of the trip he's taking. Its only a cul-de-sac.

When I have enough clarity to stop and realize the crazy bus pulled up I instead either just let him rant or use the method of saying back to him what he just said (mentioned in another post) as a way to stop the bus. It takes A LOT of practice.I have to remind myself that I do NOT NEED his validation. I do not always have to attempt to get him to see my side.

In Proverbs 26 it states "Do not answer a fool according to his folly, or you will be like him yourself. Answer a fool according to his folly or he will be wise in his own eyes." That sounds really contradictory but the point is we need to figure out what kind of fool we are dealing with and respond accordingly and keep from becoming fools ourselves as we deal with our fool. It helps me to think of it this way.

Giggle, you made me giggle. Rational noises. Hee hee.

Yup, I wasted many an hour in the fruitless attempt to get to something rational with my ex. But then again, apparently I could never speak so it was probably my fault ;-)

Freedom, I think there are a few reasons they can't change. One is that very often they simply don't believe change is possible. They don't try to change for the same reason they don't flap their arms in an attempt to fly to the moon. What's the point when there's no way it could work? Another is that they feel that they are getting what they want, so why would they want to change? They have the power and control, they don't feel love or joy and so have no understanding that those things are possible. And possibly another is that some have had their brains so profoundly damaged that it's simply not possible to undo the damage.