That is 100% always what happens if you try therapy or counseling together if the therapist or counselor has NOT been trained for abuse. It is NEVER recommended at least on this site that couples go together because the abuser can twist words around to make the therapist/counselor think he is right about everything and everything is all the other (your) persons fault.
NO, NO, NO, you are not to emotional and sensitive.

((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((HUGS)))))))))))))))))))))))))))

Oh my gosh. Marriage counseling makes me SO MAD. What they said to you is awful!!!

When I first learned I was being abused it was by calling the National Domestic Violence Hotline. They told me that they DO NOT RECOMMEND MARRIAGE COUNSELING. Because almost all counselors are not trained to understand abuse, and abusers will MANIPULATE THE COUNSELORS!!!

So I went into abuse counseling, and my counselor recommended a specific marriage counselor so I tried. And sure enough, the marriage counselor supported my abusive wife and left me to blame for everything. And my wife was manipulating her. I couldn't believe it was happening right in front of me exactly as the hotline said it would. It was like watching a bad movie!!!! (and to defend my abuse counselor, she had a valid reason to recommend her and then said that it was a bad idea. My abuse counselor is great.)

SO... you are NOT alone. That is just the way it works. DON'T go to marriage counseling. BECAUSE:

You don't have a MARRIAGE problem, you have an ABUSE problem!!!!

Marriage counseling does not work when you are married to a narcissist, and esp. when your therapist is not trained in counseling for emotional abuse.

Here is how it should have gone: Therapist recognizes the narc in the relationship immediately. The session is ceased and the therapist tells the narc to go away. She then tells the abused that they need to come back alone for therapy.

This is exactly what happened to me and I credit my therapist with literally saving my life. I was married to Mr. Critical, Cranky and Controlling. He was ALWAYS a victim and never tob lame for all of his worldy troubles.

You are not too emotionally sensitive. You are married to an abusive narcissist who specializes in knowing what you need, but withholds it with surgical precision.

Find another therapist JUST FOR YOU. Find someone who has extensive experience in counseling the emotionally abused. You deserve to be heard, to be taken seriously so that you can begin to heal.

I am so sorry for the ineptitude of your therapist and for the asshat you are married to...you deserve so much better.

I am so very sorry. As the others have said, this is exactly why joint counseling doesn't work. It's obvious your therapist doesn't 'get it.'

You were invalidated. You are NOT wrong. It IS emotional abuse. You are NOT too emotional and sensitive.

Your therapist has been hoodwinked by your abusive nacr of a husband.

I walked out of therapy w/the then husband in the 3rd or 4th week because it was obvious that he had been manipulated by the now ex. And I didn't even realize I was in an abusive relationship at the time.

The therapist basically gave us the same assignment yours gave your husband. we had to come up w/three compliments for each other every day. The theory behind that is to help each person see the positives and focus on those instead of the negatives & to build each other's self esteem. That ONLY works when you're not dealing w/an abusive narc, sociopath &/or alcoholic/addict. And it ONLY works when each person is willing. And the caveat is that ONLY we can build &/or repair our own self esteem!! See, narcs feed their self esteem off of others and any 'positive strokes' they receive go in one ear & out the other. Narcs are a bottomless pit - emotional vampires, sucking the energy & life out of us. Anything positive they say to us is just words. If the ACTIONS don't MATCH the WORDS, the words are useless.

I felt totally invalidated when I asked for a simple concession & he refused & the therapist didn't think there was anything wrong with that. Therapist KNEW his background & any therapist worth his/her salt would have seen ex's refusal as a huge red flag. That's how good narcs are when it comes to manipulation! .I couldn't believe my own eyes & ears.

That was one of the turning points for me. I said stick a fork in me, I'm done & I walked out. I stupidly thought meeting w/the 'therapist' to explain would help the therapist to understand. Sadly, it didn't. I didn't know whether to scream or cry at him (the therapist) so I again just walked out.

It took me a long time to find a good therapist, but I have and it's made a world of difference in my and my life is so much better now.

Please continue w/your individual therapy with a therapist who specializes in recovery from abuse & PTSD and get out as soon as you can cuz it will only get worse.

Hugs!

PS, please don't let this crappy therapist leave you hopeless. There are lots of us who got out and are so much happier & healthier. For me, I may not have as much money or a snazzy house, but I have enough. My peace of mind, self worth and happiness are worth it.

There is HOPE....hang on to it....With the right therapy and No Contact, you will start to see the light at the end of the tunnel. Just know that healing is a process and it's not linear. There will be more downs than ups in the beginning, but one day you'll wake up and realize that life is better and the ups now outweigh the downs.

khyrsalis, unfortunately the suggestions you make offer false hope to confused. IF her husband is a nacrissist, there is NO boundary that he will adhere to because narcs don't honor anyone's boundaries. That is a sx of their 'dis-ease.' While some want to believe their is hope for them, (and that's fine if they do), the amount of time it would take for a narc to improve would only serve to continue to inflict damage, hurt, pain and further abuse on confused and all who are in relationships w/narcs.

Let me repeat....narcs don't honor boundaries. It's extremely stressful to live with a narc. They are quite toxic and the longer we stay, the more damage is done to us.

You are totally on point about the communication issue. The only problem w/that is that narcs aren't willing to adjust (or even try to adjust) their communication styles.

The question here is: is staying w/an abuser who is obviously NOT changing worth losing oneself? The level of stress it takes to adapt to the ever changing & escalating abusive behaviors of a narc will takes its toll on those who chose to stay. And that's not even mentioning possible risk to life and limb as we try to adhere to our boundaries. The more we set & keep boundaries, the more the narc abuser will escalate and that can & does lead to physical danger.

And while being analytical and collecting & processing data & having a certain communication style is part of the equation, there's a whole other part that hasn't been addressed. That's the emotional part & the subconscious which is where most of us humans operate from.

This group is not about saving marriages, it's about saving lives, mentally, emotionally, physically & spiritually. IMHO, this is about more than survival, it's about living an abuse free life and not waiting around for it possibly happen. Again, JMHO.

PS, please check out the DSM-IV for diagnostic characteristics of a narcissists. (you can google it)

You will see that, among other things, they lack empathy (which, in and of itself, is enough to not allow them to respect boundaries) and they have a huge sense of entitlement (again, not good for adhering to boundaries set by others). That's just two - here's the list:

Includes five or more of the following characteristics:

Is grandiose in evaluation of self without demostrating superior achievements

is preoccupied w/fantasies of great success, influence, intelligence, beauty or perfect love

Believes in own "specialness" and expects to associate with high prestiage people or institutions

Demands to be overly admired

Feels entitled to special treatment and to have demands acceded to

Exploits others to achieve own ends

Lacks empathy for others

Frequently envious of others or assumes others are envious of him or her

Is arrogant in attitudes and behavior

Anyone victimized by abuse,
whether that's an adult child
within a family system or
someone being abused
by her (or his) intimate
partner, every individual
has both the prerogative
and the responsibility to
choose a path.

No one, not a best friend,
not the best clinician in the
entire world, can dictate a
choice for anyone else.


confused. . . . . .

The last of the three therapists
my ex and I saw together,
instructed me to leave my
"laundry list" of complaints
at home. None of the three
we saw, from the one fresh
out of grad school to the
PhD, recognized emotional
abuse when they saw it.

With some few exceptions,
marriage and family counselors
don't get lots of focused training
in domestic violence (which, of
course, includes emotional abuse).

I just bumped my thread on
couple therapy. Give it a
glance, and you'll get the
full spectrum of opinions
and experiences.

Please don't be hopeless.
Living with joy is still possible.

It may even be possible, (though
I wouldn't want to be the one to
have to find out), within the
context of an abusive relationship.
It's definitely possible for someone
living abuse-free.

No one can choose your life
for you. You're the one behind
the wheel.

Sending you lots of love
and wishes for healing
and happiness.

Please take good care.

THANK YOU EVERYONE!!!!

I was so distraught I had to make an unscheduled appointment with my therapist becauseof this. She re-assured me that the counselor last night was **NOT** correct and that I am not over reacting, and all of what you all said below.

I told her how hard it is now that he is being so nice since he realized that I in fact can get out of this before the "1 year committment" and I am stupidly doing the "What if this time" all over again.

I talked to her a lot about the "honeymoon period" of getting back together because it was only 2 days after agreeing to work on things that he started with his old ways and continued from there until I told him I couldn't do this. She said everyone **IS** on their best behavior (Honeymoon period) when you first get back together. I questioned if it that "theory" was true for people together as long as we have been (20 years) and she said **YES**, in fact the longer you are married the more intense the "honeymoon period" is. I guess that answered my question.

THIS IS THE MOST HORRIBLE THING TO FEEL AND GO THROUGH!!!!!!!! YOU ARE ALL SO BRAVE AND I ENVY YOU ALL TO BE SURVIVORS!!! I will continue to pray for strength, guidance, courage, clarity, etc. etc. and will try to stay positive as I have a feeling things are only going to get worse before they get better. =(

Thank you all again for your generous support!!!

@ Mytruecolors - THANK YOU! I appreciate your support and do not feel you are imposing what I should do onto me. I appreciate you sharing your personal experiences and thoughts. =)

@ Khyrsalis - THANK YOU too! I appreciate your insight and support and understand where you were coming from. I am actually somewhat familiar with some of what you are talking about being both analytical, I am a perfectionist, type A emotional person. This may have also contributed to some of why I feel so emotional and broken because I have been faced with something I can not perfect and it is very hard to accept on top of all of the critical things that have been said to me by my husband for the last at least 16 years.

I met my husband when I was 16 and I know no one else, he was my first everything, I did everything I could all of our relationship to try to please him only to be left with feeling like it wasn't good enough. He would always make me feel so replaceable by talking about other women, most of whom he would tell me how much he had in common and got along with, how some of them liked him, about his conversations he had of which a married man should not discuss with women such as lingere, cosmetic surgery (breast lifts, etc), telling other people in front of me that a woman at a party we were at together is "divorce material", etc. etc. etc. Telling me what type of cosmetic surgery I needed, pointing out my problem areas, etc. etc. etc. My husband has no empathy for anyone but himself and what he finds important, including his wife, which I believe is probably one of the main people he should truly have empathy for. I have cried to him, begged him, yelled at him, talked to him, and even specifically told him I was unhappy, why I was unhappy and what specifically he could do to make me happy (which I didn't think was a large request, I only asked for him to love me unconditionally for WHO I AM and show me, nothing more, no material things, no money, no gifts, no cars, no houses, no jewlery, only for him to love me unconditionally for WHO I AM no matter what and show me).

Again, I understand that everyone has different opinions and I truly appreciate them all, and I have said it in one of my past posts, I am one that if I am wrong PLEASE TELL ME. I don't want to be supported if I am wrong or off base so I always welcome those opinions too because if its something I am doing wrong I do want to correct it.

My husband told me just yesterday before we got to marriage counseling that he feels like the spotlight is on him only to change and that I act like I have nothing to change (even though I have told him a million times it seems like that I never said I don't have anything to change but my changes are minor in comparison to his). My changes are bad habits such as bitching at him for silly things when I am in a bad mood, or snapping type things. Him on the other hand has to try to stop being so critical of me. He told the marriage counselor last night that he had a revelation and that is "HE IS PRO-ACTIVE AND I AM REACTIVE". I am sorry but I took that as a nice way to say I am lazy and only do things in response to something which is not true. Does it happen sometimes, yes, but it is not how I run my life

""""""""""""""""He told the marriage counselor last night that he had a revelation and that is "HE IS PRO-ACTIVE AND I AM REACTIVE".""""""""""""""


That was an attack.

Surprise, surprise.

Khrysalis,
If you would go back and read Confused's very first post, you would totally understand why we all have been urging her to leave. You only came in at the end of this.
You really need to read what she wrote so you can understand our point of view better.

I just want to being this all back to confused,

Confused can I put u back in touch with your own decision from the start of all this, what did u say u needed to do?

You said that u needed to give it one last shot to try and work at it so then you don't have to live with what ifs!

After going to marriage counselling and giving it this shot are u any closer to finding out the answers to settle your what ifs?

Your abuser will always give u "what ifs" because this is the hook, it's ok to take some oppurtunities to settle those what ifs, I don't know if u think you have done that already but I just want to point out to you that you've been to marriage counselling, has anything changes at all?

If its not then I would like you to work on changing that question "what if" to a statement of "what is!!"

You had to try and so did I, sometimes going back again in a circle isn't a bad thing because it reminds us why we left in the first place, perhaps u just needed a reminder that's all.

Thanks Kazb, you are right. And I have my answer its just hard to accept but I have to do what is right and healthy for my kids and I so this constant feeling of guilt, inadequacy & fear/sadness will hopefully eventually drift away.

As you all know its hard to accept the realization when your marriage and/or relationship is ending and its not because you want it to. For me i have to try to accept and grieve the loss of 20 years & the thought of that just not being anymore but I know as hard as its going to be if I don't do something I will feel the way I do right now which is far from happy.

I know it's so unfair. If we had it our way things would be pleasant, loving and very different. Unfortunately you can't change anyone, the only way forward is to make the changes yourself. If that means you have no choice but to cut your ties with your husband then if u want to be happy that's the way forward.

No one can ever say u didn't try and that u didn't try hard enough, you've done all u can, I think self care is calling you!