OH we sing the same song don't we Katherine. I am a broken record on these boards, saying....if you have kids PLEASE do it for them, the younger the better.

Our kids become our exes best tool with which to control and hurt us. They have no conscience about what they do to the kids. None. They are not capable of it.

I hope and pray, some day your kids see the light. There is a lot of life yet to be lived, and you never know what the future may bring. Just continue to extend love wherever you are, to whoever you meet up with during the day. And especially to your children...because even if you never see it, just the knowledge that you are still there, loving them, may be keeping them sane.

Big hugs, I'm so sorry for your pain....

oh god, I wish could go back in time and not have had kids!

I love my kids. but the stress of having to parent them, with my abuser, is terrifying.

he's already using the kids to further control me-and is trying to,and admits to wanting to minimize my time with the kids 'because I am a bad influence on them.'

every decision I want to make for the kids, he puts his foot down and says no, and won't come half way at all.

I just wish I could somehow get full custody of them, so that I could make all of the decisions!!!!!!!!

because I KNOW that every decision he wants to make, is only made to further abuse and control me.

he's sick!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I pray for any woman in an abusive relationship-please don't get pregnant!

and for any woman considering leaving-LEAVE NOW!!!!!

and if you can, if it's at all possible, try to get full custody/guardianship of your kids.

I know we have discussed and been through this before.... but as you know this comes in waves and my ex is turning this week into a complete lost cause - as he so often can!

All because he owes me a payment - now I am public enemy #1 - the person who is trying to ruin my kids' lives. Any every day he controls them ( just as he did me) he brainwashes them a little more.... I pray every night that the memories my children have of me will sustain them. That how he reduced me to a shell of myself in the 3 months I tried to plan an escape with my kids, will somehow be forgiveable to my children, that they will somehow know he kept me up all night, threatened to beat me multiple times a day (and the fact that my lawyer kept saying never leave the house resonated with me and forced me to serve myself up for life as a caged animal)

I truly have no doubt that without the support of my family (who waited for this moment for 23 years) and friends who loved me for me, I would be dead now. There is no doubt in my mind when I think back to the feelings of "no way out" - I would have taken my life if i thought I had to spend one more second with this sick man.

Now he gets to control my kids and if they were not teenagers - there is no way he would accomplish what he has!!!! I just hope he burns in hell at some point - he is a sick man but the system, just loves these guys!!!

I know that you're not supposed to say mean things about your abuser to your children, but yours are older. have you thought about sitting down with them and giving them YOUR side of the story?

he's obviously giving them HIS side, and they believe it.

my kids are still young (7 and 11).

I never say anything mean about their dad to them.

the only thing I ever said was that mom and dad fight too much, and we had to go the shelter because dad might be really upset when we left.

I know he says things about me to them, but I just try to show them as much as possible that I'm the mom I've always been.

it works, thank god. my abuser is crazy enough that even his kids kind of get it.....

if they were to start being angry at me, and taking his side, I think it would kill me!

My ex girlfriend has a son from a previous marriage. The son has never met his father and his mother keeps his father away from him. I have little doubt her marriage was abusive. She abused him in the same way she abused me, and I suspect the father abused her as well. The situation today is an ugly, depressive mess. The mom says bad things about the father, but I really think he and his family stay away because they are scared of dealing with her shit.
Her narcissim is denying her son any relationship with his father, and denying him any kind of stable, meaningful relationship with anyone but her and his grandfather. She even keeps him away from her sisters because she thinks they are bad influence.

The son, now 12, is a great kid with a calm demeaner. But he shows signs of internal turmoil. He asked me about depression. He told me he wished his mom didn't drink. He told me about things he likes that his mom won't let him do or have, such as a bulletin board for his room. She didn't want to give him a bulletin board because she thought it would look too junky. I watched her verbally and physically abuse him, but she called it "discipline".

Her son really took to me and admired me. It's because of him that I stayed in the relationship much longer than I should have. it's because of him that I feel the most grief over the breakup and the abuse directed at me. I certainly hope he stays the calm, thoughtful and considerate person he is. But the deck is stacked against him.

I am with Rachel, honestly....

I never felt it was good parenting to keep my ex's dirty little secrets from my son. If I did...he would not be empowered....he would not have understood what happened to him and gained the strength to walk away.

It all depends on how you tell them. I always said, and still say even tho he's 19 now...that I don't say this to make his father look bad. I say it, and talk about it because we need to make sense of the lives we had to live. We need to understand it , to get past it. A little dose of reality is not a bad thing for a teenager...especially when it is given out with open arms, the truth rings and they will hear it....

I know that this might not be possible for you to do Katherine, but maybe for someone here it is.....

I know you may or must be right.... I am losing ground by taking the high road and doing what most say is right (but for younger children).... I have never spoken ill about about my ex(abuser).... never told the truth.....


However, they have chosed to stay with him so I understand they may be making an astute financial decision for themselves... (after all the threats of being left homeless and to live in a trailer park - like thier mother)....
]

Honestly, I live by a river - always running with peaceful waters... in a home my childhood sweetheart invited me into (knowing a bit about what was happening to me) and experiencing love and support live I have never known in my life - if that is a trailer park with a loser - fuck you buddy - send our kids over because this is the lesson they need to learn - love, support, promise, peace, etc, etc, etc,

I honestly don't think never speaking the truth with our kids is the high road. We have to empower them, we have to protect them, and when they are old enough...they need to know this stuff for them to make good decisions, and for them to protect themselves against what to me, is one of the most sick and evil forces in the universe.

As long as it's not told them with malice, or hate in your heart for him, but with love and peace and hope for your kids, it's the high road.

Honestly, their father will hurt them at some point. He's already hurting them by turning them against you. As far as I'm concerned...and many may disagree with me....taking the high road is doing whatever we have to do to protect and empower our kids.

It's so not about HIM, and it's so about THEM.

Big big hugs, Katherine. I'm so happy you have found some beauty in your life after this mess.....

Thanks hockeymom.... you are right! Just sometimes hard to sit idly by while he affects my kids - but, what is worse - living with him close to suicide or my kids living with him and knowing he is the world's wost influence on them - ethically, socially - in every way possible....

I have to agree with HM about the "high road". My son is only just 4 and so the high road of honesty with him about his father doesn't involve much at this point. But as he grows and his questions increase (he fortunately doesn't see his father), I will tell him age appropriate truths. Some of the utterly horrendous things my ex did to me I will probably never tell him, but nor am I going to lie to him and tell him that his daddy loved him, that his daddy was a good man or any of that. Of course, I'm not going to say his dad was an asshole either (despite that being the truth lol). I will just tell him some of the things that happened, some of the reasons we couldn't be together any more and some of the reasons I protected him from his insane, delusional, violent, alcoholic sociopath of a father (though perhaps not in those EXACT words).

Saying that, I absolutely agree with HM and katherine, it's one of my big issues on the board too - if you have kids, do NOT stay with an abuser "for the sake of the kids" or "to keep the family together" or "so the kids don't come from a broken home" ... or even because your abuser "is a really good parent". Abusers are NOT good parents - abusing the other parent is child abuse and the children see it. If you are living with an abuser, get out before you have kids. If it's too late for that, get out FOR THE SAKE OF THE KIDS.

This topic is so serious and so hurtful. I can only tell my experience. I was married to my children's father for 10 years. I left when my kids were 8 and 9 and my ex was doing drugs and alcohol. Some months later my husband showed up on the doorstep and said he wanted to move in that night . . . that night or never. I told him we needed to talk some things out first. He left mad and was not heard from for about 10 years. Of course my kids had questions. Rightly, or wrongly, I told them that their father loved them. I even mailed them Christmas cards and Birthday cards and signed his name. I explained that Daddy loved them as much as the could but that Daddy sometimes had trouble loving even himself. As an adult my daughter thanked me for doing this. She had sought out her Dad and surprisingly he had told her the truth. She was still deeply hurt, but at least she did not have to contend with years of hate . . . only years of loneliness. My son didn't suffer as much. Anyway, maybe I did the right thing. Maybe I didn't. But I would advise every mother to not burden your children with adult issues. Perhaps I should not have sent the cards, but I still think I did the right thing not to bad mouth their Dad or impact their image of him. I just wanted my children to stay innocent as long as they could. Ultimately, each mother will have to make these decisions for themselves. There is no easy answer.

"However, they have chosed to stay with him so I understand they may be making an astute financial decision for themselves..."
As teenegersit is really common for them to be focused on material possessions, their clothes, where they live, having a car, and an allowance to impress their friends and it is also common for abusive fathers to play upon that with their teenage kids. thtais where the term disney dad came from imo...a father who esentially buys his kids loyalty and love. It's sad that your kids have fallen into his trap. I believe though that as they age and begin to settle down and possibly have kids of their own, when they look back and reflect on what they want toeach their children they will realize they want to teach them more than just materialism they learned fro their dad and that is when they will think of you as well as the memories you create for them now although separated, by keeping in touch with them and still to some extent taking the high road. I would however offer to talk to them if they would like about your marriage to their dad. Let it be their decision. and if they do want to talk to you, tell them the truth. Just keep setting the example you are that of a woman with values that acts with integrity and honesty and unlike their dad doesn't need to buy their affection or loyalty.

It was supposed to read...what they want to TEACH their children.....(and) ...........they learned from their dad.