Hon -----

Here's what I have said
before and what I believe
to be the case, based on
my personal and professional
experience:

A month, however positive
appearances may be -----

is simply not enough evidence
or time to conclude whether an
abuser is now a non-abuser.

If you want to give him an
opportunity to prove that
he is now, not merely sober,
but non-abusive as well . . . .

I'd say to him, "You go on doing
the work that you need to do and
I'll go on the path I've decided to
pursue. We'll have no contact
for a year. If you've manged to
rehabilitate from being abusive
and want to show me that you've
successfully changed, we can
see each other (NOT live together),
at that time."

The successful rehabilitation
of a person with abusive
behavior patterns, is very,
very slim. Does it happen?

Occasionally. Not very often.

If you want to give him a chance,
then tell him to do the work and
you'll consider his request in a
year.

That's what I would do if
it were me.

Hello, this is the million $$$ question, isn't it...
I started a discussion on a similar topic, titled "when your abuser turns nice". People have commented really well on it, I found it very useful :-).

Rosehipcreek - did you ever leave and then come back?

I did leave once for six months, in 2002, and came back. Then last year in august we separated for about 2 months, also, due to him working out-of-state. But we stayed together after all...

I agree a month is not enough time to demonstrate real change. You are smart to be doubting this and wanted to protect yourself. If you tried Ilene's suggestion it would be interesting to see what his reaction would be. It would tell you a lot. If he is still an abuser the pattern would probably dictate two things-he will get angry because you aren't doing what he wanted, and he'd completely disrespect your boundaries and continue to pressure you and contact you anyway. If he doesn't do these things it'd be a better indicator of a desire to change. But real change is unlikely to happen in a month.

Just to give you an idea of how hard it is-I was abused for 15 years. I have a lot of negative patterns of behavior left over from the abuse, not asserting myself, fears, lower self worth than I should have. I am aware of these things and have actively worked to change them since the six years I left. They're not eradicated after all this time and this hard, conscious effort to fix them, although they've gotten better-because they are ingrained attitudes and behaviors. If your abuser is trying to make it sound like he's made an about face in a couple of months it shows a serious lack of insight into what it takes to really change, and that would concern me if I were you. Which regret would you rather have, waiting and looking for real evidence, and letting the chips fall where they may, or getting sucked back in too early-and possibly have the abuse get worse because he won't take a threat to leave him seriously?

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO I CAN'T STRESS IT ENOUGH, IT IS NOT POSSIBLE. stay away!!!!

That is the same advice Ilene gave me however it was worded a bit different because i was asking her about my beliefs as a christian and how we were suppose to get married in the eyes of God becuase we were living in sin and I will never forget what she said.

If he really loves you he will leave and get help AWAY from you, he will not see other people while you two work it out, and I was insecure about that. But they don't want to put in the effort. But she's right. I personally, don't have a year to wait for him, I have a life too give me a break.

When I love, I love hard, but not to the point where my whole life of one year is going to depend on if he comes back to me, i will have met someone else by then, or been happy where I was.

But Ilene your advice is always so spot on, I love it.

As an alcoholic myself, I can tell you that a month sober doesn't count. A year shows a serious change.

Add in abuse on top of alcoholism, and I'd say that serious commitment to therapy with couples counseling as well maybe a year. I don't know the particular details but we drunks aren't all abusive so blaming it on booze alone is just wrong. There are other issues there he has to fix.

I suggest alanon for you and a good cbt based counselor to get some perspective

aral, Chances of him being the partner you always wanted to another woman are slim to none. The ex is on his third marriage and he hasn't changed a bit. Wife #2 met, married and divorced in him less than a year for the same reasons (including drinking) I divorced him. I had tried everything I knew for almost 4 decades. I did an intervention twice. I dragged him to marriage counseling. I stood by my vows in sickness and in health until I realized it was killing us both. I figured any loving God would not want both of us dying (figuratively or otherwise), so I left. Please don't waste your life begging, trying or waiting.

People tell & show you who they are. Pay attention to whether all - not some of - his actions match his words. Pay attention to whether he takes responsibility and is accountable for his actions. Pay attention to whether he blame you for his actions or says things like "if only you would....then I would/could be/do/say......" These are all huge red flags.

Here is a link to an old thread that will give you an idea of when it's time to leave. It's long, but it covers a ton of red flags to look for.

http://www.dailystrength.org/c/Physical_Emotional_Abuse/forum/8163576-time

I also want to comment on Richard's reply (reply #8) to offer another perspective. It is offered w/the utmost respect. I agree that some alcoholics aren't mean or abusive, but many are. Nothing is all or never. :-)

I base my response on my training & personal experience of living lived with an abusive alcoholic who went thru rehab 1-1/2 times. He supposedly went to AA meetings at least weekly & claimed to be sober for over a decade. Unfortunately, I know for sure the later part of his claim was completely untrue.

I would suggest that the abusive alcoholic have at least TWO YEARS of PROVEN sobriety AND TWO YEARS of individual counseling w/someone who specializes in the dynamics of abuse and abusers.

In addition, I suggest that the OP (aral) find a therapist who specializes in recovery from abuse & trauma. I also recommend alanon and coda. Just to be clear, this is not an either or suggestion...I suggest both in conjunction w/each other. Go to several different groups before decided on a particular group. Make sure you're not in a group where others are telling you what you should/shouldn't do or how you should/shouldn't feel.

Also, again w/all due respect, people in alanon &/or coda are probably not well informed about, or trained in recovery from, abuse, so its best to keep that part between you and your therapist.

Again, with all due respect, couples counseling does NOT work with active alcoholics because you're not doing counseling w/the person, you're doing the counseling with the alcohol/drug. AND, couples counseling doesn't work with abusers either for way too many reasons to list here. So I am including a link to Ilene's post about abuse & couples counseling.

http://www.dailystrength.org/c/Physical_Emotional_Abuse/forum/6301494-couples-counseling-and-abusive-relationships/page-18

Finally here is a way to know if he has really changed over time.

That way is:

If he consistently respects your boundaries over time, i.e. the next two years.

In other words, when he begs you to give him another chance and you tell him you need time alone AND you want him to stop asking/contacting you for at least a year. Then at the end of the year, you will consider his request when he can show you proof of his continued sobriety, attending AA meetings and counseling at least once a week for that year.

If he does what you asked and doesn't bother you for that year, then you might consider entering into a dialog w/him for the next year, taking it a week at a time.

Sadly he has two strikes against him.

The first is being an alcoholic. The second is being an abuser. That's a double whammy. While some alcoholics are quite successful staying sober & working their program (AA), of those alcoholics who are also abusive, even fewer are successful at not being abusive.

Based on my training, IMHO, abusers are deeply wounded, and that wounding usually happens at an early age. Just like in alcoholism, denial plays a huge part in an abuser's life. Another facet of this is that many abusers have mental/emotional disorders and/or other addictions that have to be addressed. FYI, these addictions include more than the ones we always hear about like drugs, gambling, etc. They also can include relationship addictions and co-dependence.

All of this is to say why it takes at least TWO YEARS for him to show you he's changed.

~hugs~

Thank you. I don't want to devote two years to wait and see what happens. I'm 33 and still have a lot of time to build a happy life.

You have some great responses already. I just wanted to add that I was the latest in a line of abuse victims with my husband. He has never treated a girl well in his life, and I know he never will.

I`m looking back at a proven trail of abuse, and you are looking forward to see if yours would treat another woman better... he wouldn't. I WAS the next woman in mine`s case, and if anything, he treated me worse than any of the others because I ended up living with and marrying him rather than just dating.

Huge hugs xxx