Physical & Emotional Abuse Support Group
Abuse is a general term for the treatment of someone that causes some kind of harm (to the abused person, to the abusers themselves, or to someone else) that is unlawful or wrongful. No one deserves abuse, period. Abuse can be emotional, physical, or sexual.
I have been avoiding posting here because I feel like a hypocrite. I went back to my ex. There I said it... Whew!
You have no idea how hard it is for me to write that. Then again, maybe you do, because we all have been in the same boat and know just how smooth and seductive these guys can be. How hard they can TRY, especially when you don't want them to.
I don't know what is wrong with me. It is like I am brain-washed or something. After years of systemic abuse, I think I have become used to being treated this way. My relative definition of being treated 'good' is like being treated 'normal' to other people.
I have not firmly committed to coming back, or even 'seeing' each other again. He knows I have one foot out the door and it is making him increasingly uncomfortable. This is no longer a game to him, it has taken on a heavy weight. He seems emotionally invested in doing what he can to make me stay.
He suckered me back in with repeated attempts at 'just being friends' and contacting me (despite my efforts to block him, ect).
He had me over the other night for a glass of wine and to talk. When he kept bringing up our relationship, in a circular, round-about, never answering or really saying anything way that these guys seem especially proficient at, I got fed up and snorted.
:What?' he asked.
'Nothing. Let's just be honest here, you are either going to marry me or we are going to be the kind of friends that meet once in a blue moon for a cup of coffee!'
After saying that, it was like I had unwittingly laid on my cards on the table. He knew I was no longer going to just stick around, so he up'ed the ante.
This week was his daughter's birthday. He invited me over last night to celebrate with his parents, his niece and his daughter. As his girlfriend.
This has long been a sticking point between us. He didn't want me to have access to his daughter, at least not enough for us to get close. I always felt it was because he had something to hide or was ashamed of me. It felt horrible.
In all fairness, he was going through a contentious divorce (gee, I wonder why) and was worried that being opening involved with a much younger woman would look bad and aggravate his ex-wife.
His parents are difficult people, so I declined joining them for dinner politely. He made me feel guilty for saying no, after making such a big fuss in the past about not being acknowledged as a substantial part of his life, so I agreed to come over after his parents left.
He made it clear that he wanted me to stay the night, and that his daughter was made aware of the significance of our relationship. I still have not agreed to be with this man, fyi.
None of this was told to me until I was at his house.
His house is small enough that his daughter and his niece could have heard us arguing, putting me in an uncomfortable situation where I didn't feel like I could say no or tell him about how I felt about announcing that I am a significant person in his life, have been for five years and that I am not going anywhere.
Even just writing this makes me want to cry!!!
I have been wanting some kind of public acknowledgement of being his SO for so long, and now here it is and I feel like it is dirty and tainted and everything bad in the whole wide world. I know I am being dramatic and I don't even care!!
I gave this man five years of my life, and now as I am beginning to start my life over, all of a sudden now I am worthy?!?! Wtf?
Excuse my language.
I am in emotional turmoil, and losing my cool.
Anyhow, I ended up spending the night. I didn't feel like there was a way for me to discreetly leave without causing a scene and ruining his daughter's birthday celebration. I also wanted to relish in finally being the 'chosen one', to be completely honest.
I know he is no good for me. I know I need to stay away. But I keep losing ground and don't know how to stop it.
I don't even feel like I can tell him that I am leaving him because I have said that before and eventually have come back. I feel like he wouldn't believe me. I also feel resentful that I should have to end things with someone I am not even dating!!
Please help me!
You have no idea how hard it is for me to write that. Then again, maybe you do, because we all have been in the same boat and know just how smooth and seductive these guys can be. How hard they can TRY, especially when you don't want them to.
I don't know what is wrong with me. It is like I am brain-washed or something. After years of systemic abuse, I think I have become used to being treated this way. My relative definition of being treated 'good' is like being treated 'normal' to other people.
I have not firmly committed to coming back, or even 'seeing' each other again. He knows I have one foot out the door and it is making him increasingly uncomfortable. This is no longer a game to him, it has taken on a heavy weight. He seems emotionally invested in doing what he can to make me stay.
He suckered me back in with repeated attempts at 'just being friends' and contacting me (despite my efforts to block him, ect).
He had me over the other night for a glass of wine and to talk. When he kept bringing up our relationship, in a circular, round-about, never answering or really saying anything way that these guys seem especially proficient at, I got fed up and snorted.
:What?' he asked.
'Nothing. Let's just be honest here, you are either going to marry me or we are going to be the kind of friends that meet once in a blue moon for a cup of coffee!'
After saying that, it was like I had unwittingly laid on my cards on the table. He knew I was no longer going to just stick around, so he up'ed the ante.
This week was his daughter's birthday. He invited me over last night to celebrate with his parents, his niece and his daughter. As his girlfriend.
This has long been a sticking point between us. He didn't want me to have access to his daughter, at least not enough for us to get close. I always felt it was because he had something to hide or was ashamed of me. It felt horrible.
In all fairness, he was going through a contentious divorce (gee, I wonder why) and was worried that being opening involved with a much younger woman would look bad and aggravate his ex-wife.
His parents are difficult people, so I declined joining them for dinner politely. He made me feel guilty for saying no, after making such a big fuss in the past about not being acknowledged as a substantial part of his life, so I agreed to come over after his parents left.
He made it clear that he wanted me to stay the night, and that his daughter was made aware of the significance of our relationship. I still have not agreed to be with this man, fyi.
None of this was told to me until I was at his house.
His house is small enough that his daughter and his niece could have heard us arguing, putting me in an uncomfortable situation where I didn't feel like I could say no or tell him about how I felt about announcing that I am a significant person in his life, have been for five years and that I am not going anywhere.
Even just writing this makes me want to cry!!!
I have been wanting some kind of public acknowledgement of being his SO for so long, and now here it is and I feel like it is dirty and tainted and everything bad in the whole wide world. I know I am being dramatic and I don't even care!!
I gave this man five years of my life, and now as I am beginning to start my life over, all of a sudden now I am worthy?!?! Wtf?
Excuse my language.
I am in emotional turmoil, and losing my cool.
Anyhow, I ended up spending the night. I didn't feel like there was a way for me to discreetly leave without causing a scene and ruining his daughter's birthday celebration. I also wanted to relish in finally being the 'chosen one', to be completely honest.
I know he is no good for me. I know I need to stay away. But I keep losing ground and don't know how to stop it.
I don't even feel like I can tell him that I am leaving him because I have said that before and eventually have come back. I feel like he wouldn't believe me. I also feel resentful that I should have to end things with someone I am not even dating!!
Please help me!
I am so sorry for what you are going through. You are right, people go back all the time.
You know everything you need to do so there is really nothing else to add.
When the time comes and you really want to end it bad enough you will. You are strong when you need to be. I wish you the very best of luck.
(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((HUGS))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
I feel really bad that she is being torn like this, and being told so many different versions of reality. One year I am around a lot, the next year intermittently, now he is implying I will be there whenever I so desire.
It isn't fair to a little girl who is just turning 13. She has enough to deal with relationship-wise, and now her dad has to drag her into his?
Also, he told me last night that he took her hiking against her will, because it is what he wants to do. He told her at the summit of the trail, that she had better stop complaining, because this is what made him happy, that he knew she was dealing with a lot of hormones, and that if he were to die tomorrow, she would feel guilty for the rest of her life.
She burst into to tears, and instead of listening to her, he told her that it was ok, because she now knew what made HIM happy and therefore wouldn't be burdened by a lifetime of guilt over his imminent death!!
Did I mention it was her birthday weekend? When I asked him for further clarification about why she was so upset, it was because she wanted to be with her friends!! A perfectly reasonable request, at least in my mind!
Instead, he made the whole day about him!
I did convince him to take her to the mall today and leave her alone long enough to see a movie.
your focus is so
unrelentingly outward
that you've lost touch
with YOURSELF.
SELF-CARE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Please begin putting your focus
on SELF-CARE.
Also, have you had any kind
of counseling or therapy?
If not, would you consider it?
When we're connected with
ourself, and we love ourself,
we're less susceptible to
being used and manipulated.
Please take good care!!!!!!!!
How to Recognize it and Move Forward
The Hoover maneuver is named after the famous vacuum cleaner. In the language of our community, it describes behavior common among [abusers] and those who have borderline traits. It occurs most often when a victim threatens to leave, or actually leaves, a relationship. The intent of the hoover is to get the victim back into the relationship. This behavior has its roots in the intense fear of being alone or being abandoned that is often at the very core of the abuser's sense of self.
It can also occur when the abuser has left the relationship, and is feeling frightened and alone. Since abusers know which buttons or triggers to push in their partners, and since victims are such dedicated and compassionate people, it is far too often successful.
Those with the disorder use all kings of behaviors to suck you back into the relationship. This can include through kindness, guilt, apologies, tears, threats of suicide, protestations of eternal love, the list is endless. For instance: "Ive NEVER loved anyone the way I love you. No one has ever been as good to me as you are." etc. (Remember, the abuser knows all your vulnerabilities, and knows how to use them for their purposes and to meet their needs, not yours. It is always about them, and never about you. Except when its your fault.)
The primary drive for a hoover is the fear of abandonment. It is driven by the abusers fear of abandonment, of being alone. See the abandonment/engulfment cycle for more on abandonment. Since the abuser lacks a sense of self and takes that sense of who they are from the person they are with at that moment, they fear being alone almost more than death itself.
During a typical hoovering your abuser reverts to the way they were when you were courting. They may act in loving kind ways, swear he/she will get help, says, promises, vows, that s/he wont do a particular abusive behavior again, will really change this time, will stop drinking, or using drugs or raging or whatever you are confronting them about.
When the victim believes the hoover and re-enters the relationship, this is referred to as having "been hoovered" . It is important to note that the promises of change wont last. Often there is an immediate escalation in the raging, splitting, black and white thinking. The longer the relationship continues, the shorter will be the honeymoon of promised change. And of the most dangerous times for a victim is after a hoover has been successful, the relationship has resumed, and the next rage occurs. It is VERY common for physical violence to begin, or to escalate. No matter what your personal situation, please make a safety plan. IF you are in danger, leave. Go to a shelter, or a friends house. Stay safe.
Now, getting sucked back into a relationship that you once decided to leave, isnt necessarily a bad thing.
When it happens often enough, without any real change, it helps you to make a lasting decision that leaving is the right thing to do. IT may encourage you to seek counseling and therapy. You may feel "stupid" later, but it isnt necessarily stupid. Its just part of what you have to do to make sure you are ready to do what you have to do to recover.
Before seeking counseling and therapy, and beginning the long road to recovery, many victims have reported a feeling that theyre under the power of the abuser... that they have little choice in going back to the relationship. This may be supported by the financial situation of the victim, or threats that the abuser person with the disorder has made. This is also common.
You realize that you are healing when you recognize whats going on and begin to make an informed decision based on what is truly best for you and your children, rather than the guilt, shame, blame, fear of being alone, or what ever hook the disordered person uses to pull you back into the relationship with the abuser.
In the final analysis, you make your own doghouse . If you are comfortable in the doghouse, or if the attempted abandonment actually produces better behavior from your significant other, then you may end up feeling better about it all.
All this being said, unless the abuser in your life is getting serious therapy, you can depend on the fact that someday, and probably far too soon, the borderline behaviors WILL repeat. Eventually, you may begin to recognize the hoover in process. This is a close encounter of the hoovering kind.
People do not spontaneously recover from abusive personality disorders simply because they are threatened with abandonment or because the victim goes or stays.
Once you begin to understand abusiveness and how it affects the one you care about, you can use the hoovering episode to create opportunities for healthier boundaries.
For example, you might say, "We can get back together for six months and see if we can make it work. I will only consider this if we agree to enter into a written legal signed agreement regarding joint and individual therapy, care of the children, custody issues, money, or whatever, before doing so. Otherwise, please start packing and get out in 24 hours."
This type of countermove may introduce healthier and more effective boundaries for you or your children.
: The information on the site (http://www.bpd411.org)
The things I used to do for self-care, the pattern I had fallen into, has fallen by the wayside. I have been too hurt, tired and wounded to look properly after myself.
I am seeing a therapist, but between their vacations/conferences and my own it has not nearly been often enough. Not to mention, I am ashamed to admit I relapsed and broke no contact with him.
Kaz, I am so thankful you are on here. Thanks for the great info! I was wondering why this time has taken on such a heavy magnitude with him, as he can surely find other partners.
I forget that abuser become enmeshed too, that it is not only us that loses our self-esteem and sense of self. I forget that they never had any in the first place! Through the act of leaving, even though his actions caused it, I am saying in his mind that he is not 'good enough'. I am also taking away the biggest source of validation and approval he has, outside of his daughter.
In other words, his biggest source of supply!
I am hesitant to return- no, downright leary is more like it- because I know abuse always escalates.
He has never been physically abusive with me, but one of the things I dug up about him was a DV report where he had ground his ex-wife's face into glass and broke her nose!
I don't know why he has never hit me, but I don't intend to find out.
I do know this... Right now, my energy needs to be focused on me and my healing, being around him is not conducive to either. I need to take care of myself first, and frankly that is something I am not very good at!
Any other help or advice anyone can give would be greatly appreciated!!
of injurious physical violence.
GET SAFE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The longer you can keep to NC the better you'll be able to practice self care!
Abusers are like psychic vampires and will suck out all your energy! Your far too busy thinking about him, what's he up to, alteria motives of his, how it's making you feel, how your being ignored and invalidated. How your feeling used and manipulated. What he's like with his daughter, is his daughter going to be ok, etc etc etc.
It's no surprise that you've lost your focus off yourself. Abusers always steel our attention because we are always having to focus on them.
Even when they are being nice and (as in your situation) they are doing what you've always wished for (or pretending to) your still going to be on edge, wary of their motives. This is because you've lives and experienced HIM for 5 years. You know him, your logical mind knows that he's always gonna be abusive and sometimes I think that the living on edge part is the worst!
In my experience I just wanted him to be abusive at times when he was being nice because it would ease the tension I had of looking over my shoulder!
It sounds to me that your in a similar place.
When your away from him you'll not be as focused. I know you've been in NC but I was and then contacted him and broke it. It happens.
I tried to end that relationship many times and everything I barely got past 5 hours. Once years ago I ended it for one month and it was awful. I did it for the wrong reasons thou and I hoped that he would change and sort his life out and be with me more comited and me also not be a secret , it never worked and I just fell further and further into holding into him as at the time he managed to do a hell of a lot of reverse psychology! It was awful and I felt trapped and at the same time I didn't want to leave him!
When your away from them, that's when u need to do your research, read books, have regular therapy. Post on here as much as u need to. Find a friend that u can confide in and ring when ever u need to, or post in here and turn to us more often.
I took today off and to myself... No thinking about him or obligations I imagine I have towards him. Of course, my thoughts still go back to him, trying to figure out what he is doing, ect.
Seriously, I really wish he was just an a**hole, because we all know that is what he is deep down inside. The waiting for that part to reappear... Being on edge... Really is the worst for me too!!
I am like, come on, rip the good guy mask off, and tell me what you really think! The truth is that I don't think he even knows... And wondering just drives me crazy!!
I went for a long car ride with my dog today. I started thinking about my dad, also a narcissist (and actually, I believe it was an incident relating to him that made me weak enough to talk to my ex again), and about how he has never changed.
The man has more money than god, can do or seek whatever treatment he wants and still he won't do it!!!
The deck of cards he has built around him is beginning to tumble... My mom asked for a divorce recently, my sister won't speak to him and I am only on civil enough terms to barely speak to him.
He has proven time and again that he will not change. My father, who has nothing left in this world besides his family, would rather continue on being a narcissist and an abuser than getting help!
These guys don't change!!
I don't care what the literature says, I don't believe it. Even Lundy. I know he says that it is rare, but possible. Personally, I don't agree. No one follows these people for life!
I, on the other hand, have known my dad for 34 years. He has never changed. No matter how much therapy, no matter how much, or how many different kinds of medication, ect. It never made a lick of difference. Sometimes he was good for a week, or a year, but sooner or later he was back to his usual self- and worse than before.
I couldn't help thinking about this as I drove mile after mile. I have seen and experienced too much to believe he has changed, that he will give me what I really want.
And what I really want is:
Peace. Happiness. Love.
What he thinks I want is:
A ring. Him. A family.
He doesn't get that the reason I wanted to be married and have a family is because it symbolized a union of love and the creation of stability... Things I can only give myself.
I am rambling a bit here, but I am trying to get this all out. To untangle the web that has become my mind, my thoughts.
To find my way back to the center of myself again.
My first thought was the same as Ilene's, that you are way too focussed on him and what he's doing and thinking, and on his daughter and your responsibilities towards her. And he knows it. He is using his daughter as a pawn in his hoover game. You say you are waiting for the mask to slip, for the monster to show his head, but in reality, the monster IS showing his head in the way he treats his own daughter - forcing her to do what HE wanted on her birthday and guilt tripping her for not enjoying it; using her to force you to sleep over, and so on.
He's not being nice, even now. It's just that he's not being AS nasty as he's been. Also, one of my favourite analogies for when they are being nice (or at least not as nasty) is to think of them as like someone holding a chair for you to sit on after a tough day. All smiles and nice, until you try to sit down gratefully, at which time they pull the chair out and you land on the floor, with them laughing at you. He's holding the chair right now.
Step one is (I think) to let go of the shame you are holding on to that prevents you seeking and getting the help you need. And also perhaps stops you practicing the self-care you deserve (a sense that, having allowed him to do this somehow means you no longer do deserve self-care?). Then stop allowing him to set your agenda - by using his daughter and himself to manufacture obligations for you.
But most of all, just keep on keeping on.
Living has made some good points!
I have been struggling with shame. A lot of it. About everything from contacting him, to feeling like I am abandoning him, to feeling like I am not good enough to move on- that somehow I am unworthy. This is an inner problem and something that can only be repaired from within.
The shame has kept me from forgiving myself and moving forward. After reading your comment, I realized that I have been punishing myself for staying in contact with him by not practicing self-care. It all ends today. It has to. I can't keep this up any longer.
I have realized I also use my involvement with him as an escape from dealing with my own life. I have great changes I have to make to live the kind of life I deserve to live.
It has been hard and scary to face those challenges alone. Yes, I have friends and a support network, but at the end of the day it is me and me alone that has to put one foot in front of the other in order to change my life.
I am careful to not tackle too much at once, to break down the changes into manageable pieces, but sometimes I get so scared, particularly when things are going well!
As I was making my way through NC, and my life was coming together, not perfect surely, but better than it has been in a great while, I realized this is it. There is no going back from here. I am going to have to leave the way of living I have always known behind, and it scared me.
I don't miss that life, even now. It was empty and shallow. I went through the motions on a daily basis just to get by. The life I am building for myself is real, there is no faade to hide behind when the going gets tough. It is just me, putting myself out there.
Today is our anniversary, and I have been on the verge of tears all day. It has been one tough day.
Our emotions and often our actions can take time to catch up. And that's really seriously bloody annoying sometimes. But you are making progress, and that's all we can ever ask of ourselves.
That and ... work on ditching the shame - it doesn't do anyone any good. ;-)
In person centred (a counselling approach) there is an aim that helps to achieve growth!
It's known as self actualisation (actualising tendency)
It's a concept about our psyche and it explains how we can be out of touch with the real you!
What is known as your self concept is there belief system within our psyche that is influenced from external sources. It is influenced by both positive and negative. So based on the outside like significant others or say society etc, it is the belief we hold about ourselves!
Then we have a part of our psyche which is refered to as "organismic self". This is the part of us that is who we truly are, who we was born to be, without facade. This is the authentic you!
The aim of person centred counselling is to help the client to expand what is known as their congruence (with means the genuine them,the honest them, the person they REALLY are)
When we are influenced by others and take on their belief systems and their ideas about who we are, we are collecting lots of conditioning concepts of ourself. The conditioning usually comes in the form of "I will love you if..." Whereas unconditional usually comes in the form of "I love you because.." We take on the conditioning of others (especially in abuse) and this is known as "conditions of worth"
The more we can expand our congruence (the real you!) the more conditions of worth you can let go of. It's almost like freeing up space inside your psyche so that the real you has the opportunity to get out more often.
And so you see this is exactly what you're going through. Yes it's painful because in order to let go of conditions of worth you have to pick them up and look at them and they are painful.
Sometimes practicing self care can be painful and that's ok, there is no right way or wrong way, it's just your way!
So long as you are now seeing what conditions of worth your needing to pick up (when your ready to) then you are defiantly on a path of positive growth.
I myself have had to find the real authentic me throu this process! We all have because abuse takes us away from that!