My sister and grandma both fall under that category, but they both have changed. For my grandma, she changed because me and my brother both became suicidal and my brother had to be hospitalized. For my sister, she can still be abusive at times, but I stop all communication with her until she can apoligize for what she has done. Some people change, some people don't, it just all depends on if they actually want to change.

Hi ItalianQueen ---

Abusers (some of whom are narcissists) SELDOM change.

They may want to change. They may SAY they'll change.

Whether or not they really want to change or just say so to get out of trouble or try to win back control ---- and whether or not (even really wanting to) they ACTUALLY ever change, is more miss than hit.

Look at people with addictive habits which they talk about changing. How many REALLY DO????? Not many. A few here and there.

That's generally more than the number of abusers who change.

If I were a betting woman, I'd put money on your hearing about him doing this again to somebody else in the future.

Ilene

A true Narcissit can not change. Their brains are not wired to feel empathy.
Even when they become aware they are Narcissits they can not change. I have seen several admissions to this from Narcissits that are aware of their condition.
They can not get passed their programming, even when they find out they still think they are the best and do not see a problem.

Unless they have a brain stroke of some sort that rewires their brain it is NOT possible.

The only change you will ever see is brought on from fear of losing Narcisstic supply. They can change behaviours and follow basic directions of correct behaviour.

They wille NEVER feel love or care for you. They only care that you are alive to provide supply for them. Do not mistake the change of behaviour for anything else but this.

i have heard the hardwiring theory before about psychopaths/sociopaths. however i'm not so sure i'm convinced anymore, now that i've learned about the neural connections in the brain. truthfully, we're all wired to think the way we do because we've thought it for so long. that's why recovery from child abuse is such a long process. you are actually reprogramming the brain. and there are real physical connections that move during this process to a new physical location.

however, i agree w/ the above, i think it's VERY rare that they change. they'd have to really really want to. and you rarely find one that does. since ppl are just objects to them, they can just as easily move on to the next victim.

i too had a psychopathic narcissistic stalker. he also turned out to be a felon and sex offender. he bought a gun and stalked me for over a yr. he was recently arrested and sentenced to 5 yrs probation and i got a restraining order. i am not his first victim and i'm sure not his last. he is constantly in trouble w/ the law bc he has no conscience and lacks the ability to consider the consequences of his actions (psychopath). this is the reason why something like 80 percent of the prison population are psychopaths. he will likely spend the rest of his life in and out of jail. he never learns from his mistakes and lacks the ability to.

I dunno but my shrink says some people are not treatable. He can spot them fast and doesnt take them on.

As far as I can see what happend to me is that I was reprogrammed by my shrink and gained new self awarness like never before.

I believe in miracles and I dont like to say never. Thing thinking like this would leave me with false hope for my mother. It would be impossible for me to detach if I lived on this hope. This is why when people ask if its possible I want to take away all hope. It helps the healing process to accept this hard truth that people some people just can not be helped, can not be saved, can not change.

Especially when it comes to Narcissist and their supply.
They will trick us that they changed to get supply for their ego. It looks like they changed but they just modified their behaviour to suit the new situation.

Its dangerous to think that Narcs can change and have empathy.

i believe given my experience that narcissists with characteristics that overlap into the sociopath category are incapable of change - they have no insight into their wrong doings and hence no motivation to change - on the other hand an abuser that grew up learning poor interpersonal skills in regards to relationships and is aware of that fact and wants to change can change - but a true narcissistic type wont change ... sorry but a narcissist as a peson doesnt even exist but is a mere illusion of who they want to be. jd

I had read, when I was researching psychopaths, that they are "hardwired' and considered "untreatable and incurable". I guess I'm just confused about it because I was wired by my abuse from childhood. And that's the same thing that turned them into psychopaths. It's not like they're born w/ a specific psycho gene. It comes from a very traumatic childhood. So if it's hardwiring in both cases, and I can be rewired, then why can't they? I'm not saying I'm hopeful, because I'm not at all. I don't think they actually will ever WANT to change, and I think that's what the difference is. We WANT to change to stop the pain and the cycle of abuse. They ARE the abuser and see no need to change when they can just walk all over people and manipulate them and get whatever they want at the expense of others and feel no guilt whatsoever... So why change? That's how I see it. I read something months ago from a psychologist in Florida who specializes in treating Narcissists. I wish I still had the site. I just don't think there are many who will ever even admit to having a problem because they have it so stuck in their heads that THEY'RE the victims. They'll never admit to anything being wrong w/ them.

I think the brain damage done to us recovering people is more in the programming. There is wiring problems too but mostly its software problems, not hardware.
When the computer is virus clean it will run well. But if its missing a hardware part it wont.
Narcissists are a special case. My mom is not a psychopath. She is a highly functioning human being that has gotten very far in life. No one on the outside can tell anything is wrong with her.
She has no true logic thinking, time managment, or concept of value. She sees what people do and copies it to suit her needs and to appear like a normal person.
She is very robot like.
The damage to Narcissist head happens at around age 3-4. They never move on from this stage. The damage is so extreme with the brain hardware and software it is impossible to recover it. There is no link to empathy centers in the head to try to fix it.

We have the wiring and connections to the different part of the brain. Some might be very weak and they have to be strengtened and developed.

I have read thousands of pages about Narcissists to see if there is hope for my mom. I have found 0 evidence of recovery.

The only thing they can do is modify behaviour when threatened to be cut off from supply. A Narcissist supply is the abuse ego feeding off emotions. They need others to make them feel great. If they are really dependent of someones supply they will modify behaviour not to lose it.
This is not to be confused with changing as a person. Its nothing like it. Its like a robot accepting new commands.

i asked a similar question a year ago. i hoped they could. but here i am a year later and been seperated for a week and a half for the same behavior. no they dont, they may want to but they dont good luck

they will never even attempt to get help bc they so strongly believe they are better than everyone else. they dont have the problem, everyone else does. it's so sick. i know that my last 2 exes were narcissists, w/o a doubt, textbook examples. i'm now just wondering about the 1st one bc he wasnt nearly as bad as the last 2. are there different levels of narcisissm?

They don't change. They manipulate and change the "game" to confuse you, but they don't actually change.

WOW!! u Guys, thank you for the wonderfull insight!! Its like, i KNOW in my heart, he CANT change!!! But MY fear is that HE WILL . and NO body will ever know the truth about him..AND THAT EATS AWAY AT ME!! I would love nothing more than to hear... YOU were right!! HE is a scumbag!!I know you not suppose to feel that way,And i apoligize if i have offended anyone by saying this, but the hate runs so deep...I just want him to hurt the way he hurt me!!Keep it coming , im loving all this imput.. its VERY comforting to me!!!!

Oh no, definitely not. Don't worry about that one bit. He will treat every other woman the way he's treated you, as he's treated every woman before you. Absolutely without a doubt.