Physical & Emotional Abuse Support Group
Abuse is a general term for the treatment of someone that causes some kind of harm (to the abused person, to the abusers themselves, or to someone else) that is unlawful or wrongful. No one deserves abuse, period. Abuse can be emotional, physical, or sexual.
She was herself ansoooooo close in session today.
We were talking about the fact that I unfriended her mother on facebook. I know I cant change the fact that her mother is rooting for us to get divorced, but I don't have to see it. My wife was explaining that she's trying hard not to mother me, and is letting me deal with my relationship with her mother my own way - not trying to referee between us.
I explained that since my best friend had turned in a week or so from my best friend to someone who hated my guts - simply because of her boyriend's lies and insecurity, and my wife's manipulation and deception. Likewise, another friend spent too much time listening to him, and not enough listening to me, and put herself and her theatre company in great difficulty just to get rid of me. Yeah - the thought of people maneuvering around, affecting my relationships without my awareness scares the bejeebers out of me.
The therapist asked if I had told her how that made me feel. I thought so, but it was worth trying again. I looked right in her eyes, and said 'the thought that your mom might be trying o convince you to divorce me makes me feel scared and powerless.'
She responded 'I hear you.' The therapist said 'wait - what did you hear?'
'That the thought of losing me makes him feel afraid.'
"And how does that make you feel? Take your time.' Responded the therapist.
My wife sat and stared into my eyes. Tears welled up in mine. I saw them appearing in hers. The seconds ticked by. She looked at me, and thought. I saw realization flash across her face for a moment, then another. We sat. I waited. A tear rolled down her cheek. We were both open, vulnerable.
Then she said 'Well then why don't you ever do anything to show it?' And the moment was over. I looked down at my knees. The therapists prepared to go on. I said 'wait a moment, I feel the need to point out that you just responded by going on the defensive, and blaming me.' "Blaming you for what?' she asked. 'For not doing enough to make you feel that I don't want to lose you.'
The therapists commented that it was such a tangible moment of connection, of vulnerability - that there were no walls between us. Until she responded, and they saw the walls snap back into place. They wanted to reach out and cry 'no!' to stop it from happening. And once her walls went up, they saw mine go up, too.
But I'm not ashamed of that. I was open and vulnerable until she attacked me. Then my shields went up into place. I"m learning. I don't know if she ever will. Maybe. It was nice having them see and recognize that her defensive maneuver was to attack me, not to disengage, or deflect, but to blame. It was a pretty clear indication to me, too. I saw it for what it was the instant the words came out of her mouth.
I'm not confused, but I am uncertain.
We were talking about the fact that I unfriended her mother on facebook. I know I cant change the fact that her mother is rooting for us to get divorced, but I don't have to see it. My wife was explaining that she's trying hard not to mother me, and is letting me deal with my relationship with her mother my own way - not trying to referee between us.
I explained that since my best friend had turned in a week or so from my best friend to someone who hated my guts - simply because of her boyriend's lies and insecurity, and my wife's manipulation and deception. Likewise, another friend spent too much time listening to him, and not enough listening to me, and put herself and her theatre company in great difficulty just to get rid of me. Yeah - the thought of people maneuvering around, affecting my relationships without my awareness scares the bejeebers out of me.
The therapist asked if I had told her how that made me feel. I thought so, but it was worth trying again. I looked right in her eyes, and said 'the thought that your mom might be trying o convince you to divorce me makes me feel scared and powerless.'
She responded 'I hear you.' The therapist said 'wait - what did you hear?'
'That the thought of losing me makes him feel afraid.'
"And how does that make you feel? Take your time.' Responded the therapist.
My wife sat and stared into my eyes. Tears welled up in mine. I saw them appearing in hers. The seconds ticked by. She looked at me, and thought. I saw realization flash across her face for a moment, then another. We sat. I waited. A tear rolled down her cheek. We were both open, vulnerable.
Then she said 'Well then why don't you ever do anything to show it?' And the moment was over. I looked down at my knees. The therapists prepared to go on. I said 'wait a moment, I feel the need to point out that you just responded by going on the defensive, and blaming me.' "Blaming you for what?' she asked. 'For not doing enough to make you feel that I don't want to lose you.'
The therapists commented that it was such a tangible moment of connection, of vulnerability - that there were no walls between us. Until she responded, and they saw the walls snap back into place. They wanted to reach out and cry 'no!' to stop it from happening. And once her walls went up, they saw mine go up, too.
But I'm not ashamed of that. I was open and vulnerable until she attacked me. Then my shields went up into place. I"m learning. I don't know if she ever will. Maybe. It was nice having them see and recognize that her defensive maneuver was to attack me, not to disengage, or deflect, but to blame. It was a pretty clear indication to me, too. I saw it for what it was the instant the words came out of her mouth.
I'm not confused, but I am uncertain.
Be very careful ( it sounds as if you are preceding with caution). But highly intelligent abusers can twist, manipulate and abuse. Even in this forum. It truly is amazing. Please consider getting your own therapist and go solo put the therapy money there. More bang for the buck when the therapy actually is about someone with a soul.
There is too much room for her to manipulate you and the therapist here. Because you and the T both have good intentions, she will play into that to continue getting things her way outside of therapy. It is just a means to an end for these people. A necessary hoop to jump through. Think of the therapist as an 'audience' and you will see what I mean...
Sorry to be so negative. But I feel it could save you a lot of pain.
*hugs* xx
Remember that you told me NC is hard and every 3 minutes one might have to go through the painful decision and then eventually it comes in every 5 minutes and after time one might work up to an hour, etc.
Well, all of life is like that.
We don't have to decide hard and fast for life....
Give yourself time and space to digest, rethink, analyze. I have watched you come to amazing analogies in time when you give yourself space.
Think it out---replay it---post it---
1% was my hope- I don't want you to think that there is even a 1%...because in my heart, even though I want my guy to be in that 1% it probably is not real---is is there for statistical error that the researchers put out there because we all know that once 100% is stated someone will fight it to deaths end.....1% is to tell us that it is so unlikely that we will die looking for it if we go that far.
Hold on Bax---think, analyze, be the eyes that you are here on the board----but now for you!
Good luck and put on that other hat on and come up with a rockin analogy!!!!!!
was losing me, my then-abuser
swore up down and sideways
that he "finally got it," and would
do ANYTHING to keep me from
divorcing him.
A week after "anything" wasn't
working, he took up with another
woman and proceeded to
secretly send tens of thousands
of dollars of our marital funds
into her household, for "safe
keeping."
The proof that someone might
be part of the 1% (and frankly,
I consider that to be an
OVER-estimate of abusers
who make a significant change),
is that after eighteen to thirty
months, the former abuser
has demonstrated that
under every kind of
everyday and circumstantial
stress, they do NOT respond
with abusive behavior of
ANY KIND. (And those
eighteen to thirty months
should not be a time of
virtually NO CONTACT
with the victim!)
THAT's how you get
some indication that
an abuser can possibly
become a NON-abuser.
Also, Bax. . . . . have you
read the thread on
couple counceling
in abusive relationships?
I'll bump it for you.
Please take care.
That's similar to what I am dealing with, but you are recognizing it in the moment. I will hear from her something that makes me think she is getting it, but then a while later think about it and realize that she is still thinking about her and not me.
Your wife seems like she is not fully getting it. She can't seem to understand the simple fact that you are hurt. And that is what I am facing - she seems to understand certain behaviors are not good and feels embarrassed by them, but for her the apology is "I'm so sorry I acted that way" rather than "I'm so sorry I hurt you." And this is after years of intensive therapy.
Look at this experience as further evidence that this aspect of your wife's personality probably won't change. You either accept that or leave.
Proceed if necessary with extreme caution. It seems as though you are seeing clearly during these sessions that she isn't and most likely won't get it. Sometimes you can have the best most sincere intentions on trying to fix your marriage but it is a 2 person thing and if you are dealing with an abuser you are on a completely separate playing field and most likely will never align.
Wishing you tons of strength and encouragement and know that we are all here for you no matter what!
My intention with couples councelling remains the same as it has been. I will go because I do desire to salvage the relationship. Perhaps not the marriage, but the relationship. I stand my ground, arguing against both the therapists and my wife at times. I am not ashamed of putting my shields up, and am still ready to take them down when the attacks stop.
Meanwhile, I have my own therapist - and domestioc violence counsellor. And a men's abuse recovery group. I make plans with my own friends, and don't tell her anything unless I feel like it. I'm not trying to change her so much as I'm giving her more time to change. I refuse to tell her how she needs to change, other than a list of my own expectations in a marriage. I'm preparing myself for divorce, in case that is where I end up going.
Because of the kids, I'm going to have a relationship with this woman for the rest of my life. For the kids, I want it to be a positive one. For me, I can only identify what I will and will not tolerate, and what steps I'll take to ensure that my boundaries are being respected. Right now, it's pointing out, in a non-accusing way, every single time she does something to cross a boundary. She's getting real tired of it. I don't care. As I have pointed out again and again, there is always the option of her changing her behavior, if she's tired of it.
I thank you all for letting me drop my shields and complain in here, though. It's exhausting. But it's the right thing for me to do right now.
Meanwhile, I am trying out online dating - to meet people and hang out. I'm also making new friends, and I spent the evening yesterday cleaning my aprtment, and rearranging. It looks great. I got a new couch over the weekend - a futon, so the kids can stay over. I've also asked her and the kids over for dinner on Friday. I get to share my place with my kids, and I'm providing a chance for her to see what things might be like, to alleviate her fears. But I don't expect it to work. But it's kind of me to provide the opportunity.
Godspeed, and thanks.
If she can't stop herself from blaming you -- no, correction, if she doesn't want to stop herself from blaming you -- in a moment like that, why would she ever stop blaming and accusing you the rest of the time?
Regardless of whether she is capable of change, the reality is she is like this NOW, and you need to keep protecting yourself. Your first duty is to yourself and the children. I think it's incredibly admirable that you are trying to do what's best for the children. They are lucky to have you. Good luck and take care of yourself.
Have u ever seen the film "what dreams may come?" I'd recommend it. At the end the main character (played by robin Williams) is trying to save his wife from hell. She can not see him (in a connection sense but can see him physically) , does not know who he is, does not feel the love for him anymore, she self absorbed in her own inner pain and turmoil. Of course in the movie there is always a good ending, but despite the ending, abusers remind me of his wife who is stuck going around and around, she doesn't realise, she doesn't know she's dead, she can't snap out of it. It's like a personal hell, trapped by her ego!
I thought on many occasions I reached my ex, he would look into my eyes as well. All I can say is that every time he seemed to "get it" or connect, at the very least within 24 hours he didn't get it. The getting it, the connection I feel is manipulative!
My ex would say "I hate myself I am a bad person" so id go home, spend all night into the early hours of the morning researching self esteem articles and self help strategies for him to help him. Research on reasons why people feel bad about themselves and positive ways they can heal etc... He would take the info, then if I asked him what he got from it and if it was helpful, if so I would be there with him every step of the way he would say "I LIKE WHO I AM
WHY ARE U TRYING TO CHANGE ME?"
But on so many occasions when I saw that human being peering out of those eyes I truly thought I had reached him, but I never ever did and I spent years trying! It's a waste of my life given away to someone who isn't worth it.
Yeah!