Martin...go to your family dinner without your wife, You don't need to suffer because she is so selfish. Some of us do not have any family to get together with during the holidays. You don't want to alienate the family you do have. You are not responsible for anyone else's behavior but your own. Your wife not wanting to go with you for your family dinner looks bad on her...not you. Again, I would go without her...

When you are ready, you will decide whether you want to live the rest of your life w/an abuser. Until then, you are the only one who can decide whether to grit your teeth and continue to give up what you want and what makes you happy to stay married or to decide to live your life for you.

Some say that you only have one life and that it's not a dress rehearsal, so why not live it your way so that in the end you don't have any regrets.

You are damned if you do and damned if you don't. So, why not do what you want? Stop pretending. Stop playing her game. Will she get mad? Yep. Will she try and guilt you? Yep Will her abuse escalate? Yep.

But she's gonna be that way no matter what you do.

Something to consider: She cannot guilt you unless you let her. YOU get to choose how you feel!

Here's what I know based on my experience.
If I continue to cave, then I am enabling the manipulator.
If I shift from being a victim, then the abuser has to shift his behavior. This means probably escalation of abuse, be it covert or overt.
If I stay, I am enabling the abuser.

Let me repeat that last one. No matter what I do, if I stay, I AM ENABLING THE ABUSER by providing the abuser with a source.

That might sound harsh, but that realization is what enabled me to leave. My exact words to myself were, "Just my being here in this house doing nothing but breathing allows him to continue his narcissistic abusive alcoholic behavior. The only chance of change I have is to leave."

I was terrified. Didn't think I had enough money. Didn't have any local friends and only had some long distance family support. It was scary and it took almost two years of hanging on to him after I moved out before I finally figured out he wasn't going to change and I needed to put myself first.

Please don't spend one more minute wasting your precious energy on a lose-lose proposition trying to figure out what to do when an abuser is involved.

Wishing you a Merry Christmas spent the way you want to spend it.

Mytruecolors, I wish I had heard those word years ago. Very well said. Amexdm it's up to you. Good luck

Thanks all:

Well every timeI whisper about family and Christmas we get in a fight. I know I have to decide to stay or leave. Trust me she is on a zero tolerance policy. She has made some serious changes and eliminated 95% of her abuse.

If she were an alcoholic and she quit drinking then how could I justify leaving when she has corrected her behavior. It will lways be a fight at Christmas. I have come to accept it and may have to go it alone to my families.

I will say, I stand up now. Just last nite I had used my last vacation day yesterday and she started a fight over what TV show to watch. I said "Do not start this abuse and especially on my last day off this year, I will not put up with it". Very sternly. She weakly tried to make her point and 5 minutes later she was rubbing my back.
I hope she knows I mean it. I am not putting up with another minute. It is too damaging to my health physically and emotionally.
I will see my family when I can, it is her loss.
Thanks for the input.

Martin

Martin, you sound so much like me, it's scary :-).

He used to say: "they are not your family, I am, they are only relatives to you now." Anytime I used to get a letter from them (they are in Europe), it would end up being a fight. Family get-togethers would be spent with him pouting.

You say that you are on a zero tolerance policy, yet...she fights with you over using your vacation days, or wanting to be with family over Christmas ?! Doesn't sound like zero tolerance to me...

For friends of yours that might say" this is normal spousal bickering, nope, it isn't. You having to cut your family of your life, not being able to spend the holidays with them...nope, not normal, especially that they have treated her so well!!!

Go...without her. What else will you tow be doing? Watching TV, waiting fro the next workday? Doesn't sound very festive to me...

I get your point, she changed, now you feel obligated to fall back madly in love with her. Martin, I am in the EXACT same boat. But, it doesn't work, does it? Every time I'm intimate with him, I feel more and more resentment building up, because it is not what I want. We have passed the point of return. Yet, we stay...
You have the right to feel what you feel. Heck, people break up every day, over something as shallow as 'we have grown apart". Then, do we, the abused ones, have not the right to feel no more romantic love, do we not have the right to feel the longing for a fulfilling loving relationship?
Cherish your family, they are only 3 hours away. My family is an 18 hr plane ride away from me. Go, see them, see them every month! Those kids will grow up soon, and you would have missed those precious moments with them, for the sake of someone who doesn't know how to treat you right? How is that fair to your nephews/nieces, who adore you! How will you explain that to them? See? Choosing something bad over something good...
Dear, I wish you as much peace as you can have, I know this is hard. Try to put your focus on the ones that love you, not on the one who doesn't know how to love you...
Hugs...

I agree with the others. You should go on your own. You get your big family Christmas and she gets her peace and quiet. I don't know the past about your wife, but if you say she has corrected most of her abuse then that is for you to decide. I don't know how much she has worked on herself. I don't think it is that easy to correct without A LOT of work!!

Personally my Mother has gone for long periods being as sweet as pie to me only to catch me with my guard down and hit me with a huge whammy!! So unless she has done lots of work on herself, I am doubting that she can be 95% better.

I do know that some people are so introverted that being around a lot of people literally makes them feel like they are being drained and having their energy eaten. Maybe this is her issue? If she is fine with you going, then I would think it's fair. If she is not fine with you going and wants you to stay with her, then its just a tug of war. I think sometimes you have to agree to let each other do what they want to do. Either way, you both want different things. If she tries to isolate you from other people, then it's abuse. If she is fine with you being around others but just doesn't like to go herself, then it boils down to individual preferences.

I would literally get sick around my ex's family. If I had to stay with them for very long, my digestion would get very screwed up and I would be constipated as well really badly like not be able to go to the bathroom for a week. (sorry if its too much information! ha) Funnily I always had this issue growing up at home too. I think it has something to do with the fact that my mother used to rub my face into my dirty pants when she was potty training me. So any uncomfortable environment highlights this. Again, sorry about it being too much information, but just trying to illustrate a point. :( Maybe she had a terrible upbringing and family gatherings or crowds make her feel really bad?

Otherwise, if she tries to isolate you from others then this is classic abuse behaviour!! So I am not trying to let her off the hook. I don't know all the details. But I think all the aforementioned are the questions you need to ask yourself.

I try to always look at these situations from multiple angles. While it is entirely possible that her disinterest in going to family gatherings could be an attempt to exercise control over and abuse you, what you have described also stringly suggests another possibilty.

It could just be that your wife is an introvert. An abusive introvert (judging from your previous discussions regarding her other behaviors), but still an introvert.

I'm an introvert myself and prefer to stay away from large gatherings too (regardless of if it's family or not). Those types of activites can be very exhausting (both physicaly and mentally) for introverts, which makes them not very enjoyable activities for us.


Most people don't seem to actually understand the difference between introverts and extroverts, and so introverts tend to be written off as things like "anti-social" or "rude" since we have a lower threshold for social interactions.

Martin, in your reply (#4), there are a couple of red flags....

1. you end up in a fight each time you mention family & Christmas.

2. having her on a zero tolerance policy doesn't seem to be working. just like someone who lives w/an alcoholic (dry or not), you cannot control them, you cannot change them, you cannot cure them & you didn't cause her behavior

3. it's difficult to believe that she has eliminated 95% of her abuse

4. just because an alcoholic quits drinking doesn't mean sobriety or the apparent change in behavior is permanent. That is especially true if the alcoholic isn't working some kind of program. Is she doing anything to help herself, like going to therapy? Are YOU doing anything like going to therapy? (By therapy, I mean with a licensed therapist who is specially trained in recovery from abuse. AND, I mean individual therapy, not joint/marriage counseling.)

5. you said you've come to accept it and that there will always be a fight over Christmas. There doesn't have to be. It takes two to fight. You don't have to stay in the room w/her when she gets upset. You can tell her that you will not fight with her any more & if she starts an argument, you are leaving the room/house until she can talk AND listen w/o arguing. You might even suggest that you each take some communication skills classes.


6. re arguments: it takes two to argue. If you don't argue, then there is no argument. It doesn't matter what she says or does. If you plant to stay w/her more than the next few days, I urge you to get yourself into therapy so you can learn about enabling, codependence, setting & keeping healthy boundaries, how to communication in a healthy way and how to not participate in arguments and still keep your boundaries.

It will take time, but as your behavior becomes more healthy and consistent, she will HAVE to do something different. Usually its escalation of negative behavior. You have to hold your ground. As my therapist says, as you rise up (i.e. learn new healthy behaviors) people either rise up with you or they fall away.

I hope you are able to stop letting her control how you feel and enjoy Chirstmas with your family. You're right - it's her loss.

Hello all:

Thank you all for some insightful information. That i why I post here becasue it is good to talk things out but also look at different points of view. Its called communication and something that my wife is not very good at. I have to carry every discussion And ALWAYS resolve every conflict.

Rose- I know we are in similar situations. It really bothers me when she says that SHE is my family. As if I am not allowed to see anyone else besides her.
I am jilting my nieces and nephews but she makes me choose them or her.
Maryjan.
You are correct. She is an introvert. She is uncomfortable around crowds. But to me, you know what, thats life. I have been dragged to many an ex-girlfriends families and I made the best of it. To me, for her to say, I dont want to go does not sem acceptable. You ae an adult. Going to your spouses family is part of marraige. Especially when they are nice people. I will go alone.

Sleepy-Thanks for your repsone and a different way of looking at things. Yes, she is an introvert. She doesnt like people. Opposite of me. I guess what bothers me is she is a hairdresser and nice to her clients all day. She said that my family doesnt "pay" her to talk so she doesnt want to go there. Thats seems a bit rude and selfish to me.
MyTrue- Thank you for your response. I have been in therapy for 50 years thanks to an abusive father and now abusive wife. As I said, and rosehip nows this, I have to carry the load as she has no conflict resolution skills. She is not in therapy and will never go. I have to either deal with it or move on.

Thank everyone so much for their iput. The end result is I am stuck at home with her this year. Her sister is her only family and her sister is flying to Arizona. It is too late to change plans so late. She has like literally 10-15 presents under the tree for me, Thats what she does, is tries to buy my happiness. But I wont leave her alone even though she wouldnt mind being so. My brother texted me if I was coming and I said no.
You know what though, I WILL try to make the best of it. But honestly it feels like rape. Like I am being raped of my soul, my family and traditions. So I will do what I have done in past years, close my eyes and hope it gets over quick. Sorry if that offends anyone but it is how I feel. Thanks .

Martin

Her profession coupled with her being an introvert could explain quite a bit about her behavior at times. Although those two factors alone don't necessarily cause a person to be abusive, I would imagine the effects of such a job on an abusive introvert would erode at least some their ability to hold back on lashing out. Kind of like a generic abusive spouse who lashes out more after a long, rough day at work. (It all boils down to what is known as mental fatigue.)

It would take a while explain the science behind it, but in simple terms you could look at the matter of extroverts and introverts like this:
Everyone has different levels of mental stamina (referred to as "mental fatigue") used in performing mental tasks, just as they have regular stamina for doing physical tasks like running or exercise. As a person uses up their mental fatigue it becomes progressively harder to do things like think clearly, access memory, perform tasks in their head and/or maintain how they are regulating their outward appearance (manners, tone of voice, etc).

In some cases people are able to force their mental fatigue last longer by bypassing the body's built in safe-guards and tapping into their physical stamina after using up all their mental fatigue. This is typically seen in individuals such as grand master chess champions during matches due to the amount if energy the brain burns through during such prolonged periods of extra intense thinking. A side effect of doing this is that it burns theough the body's emergency energy reserves (i.e.: body fat) and can result in grand master chess players losing upwards of 10 lbs in a single sitting. In some cases this can leave them in a near catatonic state for the next day or so while their body recovers.

Anyways, when it comes to how mental fatigue is regulated in everyday social activities extroverts and introverts are very different. Extroverts are marked by their higher threshold for social stimulation and need for more of it to maintain a healthy mind/body. They do not use up as much mental fatigue in social interactions and are generally "recharged" by social interactions as the amount of stress it reduces in them typically outweighs the energy expended over the course of the interactions.

With introverts, on the other hand, the threshold for social stimulation needed to maintain a healthy mind/body is much lower. They also generally have more intense thought processes going on throughout social interactions (i.e.: thinking things through before speaking, analyzing cues, etc), which causes them to use up more mental fatigue in social interactions/situations due to a greater expenditure of energy. In order for an introvert to "recharge" they require periods of quiet/personal time to replenish their mental fatigue.

That being said, large/busy/noisy social situations are generally very exhausting and stressful for introverts. This is primarily due to the amount of mental energy expended in these situations can far exceed any amount of stress reduction experienced in social interactions for an introvert. As a result of this events like parties and big family get-togethers can be very stressful, exhausting and overall unpleasant for introverts. (Especially if there are negative memories of things like abuse associated with the given social situation.) Even moreso when there is so much pressure on us introverts to force ourselves to act outgoing and happy in these situations lest we be seen as "anti-social", "rude", etc.

This is where the chess example comes back into play. When an introvert is placed in a noisy/busy/large social situations for extended periods of time the same thing happens to us (albeit not to such an extreme degree). Normally introverts have to regulate how much energy we expend on social interactions so we can get through as much of the day without snapping and being rude/hostile. However, when we spend too long in large/noisy/busy social situations it can force us to burn through all our mental fatigue extremely fast and can leave us both mentally and physically exhausted. It's like trying to force a person to run a race when they've already been running on fumes the past few miles.


It's already been established that your wife is abusive in other ways. We also know that abuse is typically a learned behavior, it is likely that she picked up at least some of her abusive behavior from how her family raised her. So it's quite possible she could have unpleasant memories relating to abuse that she either consciously or unconsciously associates with family gatherings (which would make attending them cause her to deplete her mental fatigue much quicker). This seems even more likely given that it sounds like she doesn't have much interest in visiting her own side of the family either.


This is a tricky situation since it's hard to say what is truly fair. Both sides are effectively being asked to sacrifice their own mental/physical health to accomodate their partner's needs as an extrovert/introvert. Arguing that either side is more important could even be considered a form of abuse.

Really, given the history of abuse in your relationship and the extreme level of your conflicting needs as extrovert and introverts it seems to me that continuing your relationship would be toxic and harmful to both of you in the long run.