Parents Whose children have been sexually abused Community Group
This group is for parents whose children have been sexually abused. We welcome both Mothers and Fathers. Here, we can offer support to one another. We can vent, cry and lift each other up. No condemning or criticizing allowed. We are here for support. We LOVE (((HUGS))) !
Just going to get this all out. I am at a place of desperation and confusion. I am a year out from my children's disclosures. Case open and closed, therapist seen, etc. I've done everything I can think of to help my children if something did occur at the hands of their father - the potential perpetrator. I have stayed with him due to the overwhelming fear of leaving and of him having unsupervised partial custody of our two young children.
Here is where my head is at. I'm still very much confused. Having no closure as my children didn't disclose anything to anyone besides myself (and my then 3 year old telling forensic psych that daddy touched his bottom with a stick - but that was dismissed as he said something silly afterwards). They also told me they were kidding (but I don't believe that for many reasons), and of course their father swears he would never do this to our children, I am left not KNOWING. I strongly suspect. But I don't KNOW and it's maddening. Not knowing means that if this isn't true, I'm essentially ruining my children's and my husband's life. Maybe not ruining, but greatly altering (and not for the better) three human's lives. As well as my older son who lives with us because this effects him as well. I am so torn about this. I question myself constantly. Is my husband innocent and maybe nothing happened? If so, oh my God, what is wrong with me?! To possibly taint a wonderful and loving relationship by thinking he molested them!! But as soon as I think this, I go over everything and remember the strong gut feeling I had and still have, to the words my kids told me, and to the belief that he DID in fact do something. I go over the red flags. I think about the other things I've learned (but again can't always confirm) about his past and some very questionable sexual deviant behavior (nothing to do with children). I think of all of those things and know that I will never truly believe nothing happened.
Then I think about the future and how I'm going to live with this knowing. With this suspicion. And it may never be verified. I know I can't talk about it with my children as doing so could re-traumatize them or if nothing happened, well, that would traumatize them in a different way!! If God forbid, they come to me later in life and tell me - I will believe them and tell them of this horrible time and all that I went through to try and protect them and get justice served. But if nothing ever comes out, this is my burden to bear. I shouldn't be thinking that far into the future, but I do.
And I have nobody to talk to. No. One. I have very few friends and the ones that I do have do not ask me about this anymore - I know they don't know what to say. A year has gone by. I'm still in the house. I SEEM okay. The kids seem okay. It must be okay. But it's not okay! I'm WAY better than I was a year ago, but this thing, this thing that happened didn't just go away. My husband would like for it to. He tells me that it was a year ago. DHS dropped the case. The kids haven't said anything, therefore nothing happened and by holding onto everything, I am "single handedly destroying our family" and any chance for happiness that we might have. So that's a lot to bear. According to my husband, I have an awesome husband who is also an a wonderful father and I should be grateful and am ruining it all by believing lies. :-( It's easy to believe that maybe he's right. Until I go over everything.....
My husband is a wonderful father (barring the fact that he possibly molested our children)! He plays with, reads to, teaches, adores and disciplines our children. He isn't perfect and there are things he does that I don't agree with or that get on my nerves, but they are minor. The kids absolutely adore him and show no fear. They are closer it seems, to him now than ever. After DHS let him back in the home a year ago, he was super attentive and nice to our children. Not that he wasn't before, but he became WAY more attentive. Almost sickeningly so. I had to watch him dote on the kids and be over the top sweet to them. It was somehow fake and manipulative to me. But nevertheless, they ate it up and he has them wrapped around his little finger now. I should be happy about how much our kids love their father! This is just another thing for me to be confused and feel guilty about. :-(
How he is as a man and husband..... He is extremely intelligent. So smart! He is an awesome artist and a drummer in a band. He is super funny (although nothing he says or does is funny to me anymore) and very, very charming. He is wonderful with money and is a hard worker. He is a good husband and would do mostly anything for me, although I suspect he is a bit controlling, but it's ever so subtle the way he does it. For instance, he is in control of all the finances and everything is in his name. He tells me this is because my credit is bad and because we are married, if he puts me on things, rates will go up. It sounds like he's being responsible and looking out for our family. When I used to go out (on rare occasion) with a friend, he would call if it was getting late (around 9:30!) and ask when I was planning on coming home. He would say that he was asking because our little girl or boy was crying for me. Of course, I would feel guilty and go home. But this happened almost every time. If I suggested that I might try to get a sitter and watch him play with his band, he would say that he always worried about me and it was sometimes hard to play as he would be watching to make sure I was okay, but to go ahead and come. I would feel bad and not go. When I come home with a receipt from the grocery store he goes over it in front of me and will shake his head in disapproval or will ask about certain purchases (was mascara really necessary). Making me feel guilty and it has gotten to the point where I don't ask to buy anything extra for myself. Passive aggressive and guilt trips are the big things that he does. And when he's questioned about something he most likely did, but won't admit to, I have seen another side of him. Evil almost. He has called me a bad mother to my two oldest children (not true)!!!. He has said that if I leave him he will fight for full custody of our children. He has said that he will take the van that I drive, the phone, everything, because he pays for it and it is his. Soccer will end for my older son (the one thing he cherishes). He's said that he thinks I need to be medicated. That I'm psychotic That because I didn't have a father, I want our children not to have one either.
He can be very negative and very the world is out to get him and he must have done something in his past life because bad stuff always happens to him. Like being blamed for things he didn't do. This is a reoccurring theme it seems. Not just with my accusations of possible child molestation, but with two cases where women charged him with rape (one was dismissed and I didn't know about that case until DHS worker told me) and one where he went to prison for 5 years!!! But he was let out 15 years early due to a technicality. I totally believed he was innocent for lot's of reasons, but the big one is that he was VERY good at convincing me that he had been wrongly accused by a psycho woman with major mental problems. The other woman was psycho too. As well as the woman who called me after we had our little girl and told me that he had sexual harassment claims at the place they worked together and that he wasn't what he seemed. Then there is the ex fiancé who told me that he had at least one sexual harassment claim against him at other place he worked. and that she had restraining order on him for being sexually aggressive with her!! And then there is the thing I pulled up on him on Ripoff Report website where another woman had taken the time to write out quite a bit of disturbing stuff about him and filed it under sexual predator just 5 days after our son was born. Most of this I have found out in the past year. Some over the 10 years we have been together. But it's ALL hear say. I can't prove anything and anything I bring up to him is explained away (quite convincingly I might ad) and I'm left questioning if he's telling the truth.
So you can see how confusing it is?! On one hand he's a wonderful father and husband, but there is this other stuff that is there but that I can't prove. It's too much. There is something to all of this. He is not some innocent man who keeps being blamed for things he didn't do. I don't buy it. But did he harm our children?! Wow. I'm really getting it all out. Sorry this is so long!! There is more that is swimming around my head, but I need to get something done today. I wish I could talk with someone who had this kind of wonderful father but was in fact molested and could explain how this is possible. Or talk to someone who has been in my situation and questioned themselves due to the potential perpetrator seeming like a wonderful person. I just feel very alone and that the weight of the world is on my shoulders. I am in control of deciding my children's fate for better or worse and not having the facts makes it impossible for me to move in any direction. I don't know how to do this anymore......
You're not crazy...you're being played.
Now as far as the kids disclosures, you did say before that the things they said they would have no way of knowing, right? The thing your daughter said about their secret is a HUGE worry to me. I say that because of course we know most perps tell them to keep it a secret and use bribery or threats. The fact that he didn't ask what was said is also crazy. Anyone would want to know what they are accused of. Have you talked to your older children about what happened? Have you asked them how he is with them when you aren't around? I was the same way with not wanting to retraumatize my kid by talking about it. The fact is though that they need to talk it through to normalize it enough for them to cope. Not making it normal by any means, just taking away its power. Have you contacted a children's advocacy center? I just wonder because maybe they would have advice or help for your specific situation and state. So sorry you are feeling so horrible!
http://nnedv.org/resources/ejresources/about-financial-abuse.html
Intelligence, musicality, artistic talent are not the opposite of cruel and manipulative, but may make it harder for you to see him as all bad. His total devotion to the kids....is classic grooming behavior. You yourself said it was almost sickening, how sweet he became to your children after they disclosed. Here's a question: after DHS dropped the case, wouldn't it make sense that he would want to be more attentive to YOU, to show you what a loving husband he is -- if he were innocent, he would have wanted to correct your relationship? Instead, he smothers the kids with affection. He has baffled them with bullshit, as they say: Hey kids, look at all this great stuff I do with you! Ignore how I poked your bottom with a "stick."
Let's let the link I posted stand for any comments I might have made about financial abuse. Clearly, he has mastered that as well.
You are not to blame for the bad things he has done, but the evidence against your husband is ridiculously heavy, and I would bet that all of us would tell you to make your plans now for escape. Contact a women's shelter first and find out how it's done safely. If you have to set aside money first, fine, but it's time to get your kids out of his clutches ASAP. What he is doing is instilling in your kids the sense that Daddy is a good guy, but the memory of his abuse will linger in the backs of their minds, and leave them with confused boundaries and clouded judgment about others who seem nice but mean them harm. And you do not want to be the one they come to blame someday for not protecting them after disclosure. Many members of this forum know how that feels.
You won't "single-handedly" destroy your marriage. His choices to harm your children and to abuse you emotionally, financially, and verbally, are what have destroyed your marriage. (http://liveboldandbloom.com/11/relationships/signs-of-emotional-abuse)
He is a narcissist, as Warriormom suggested. Narcissism is one of the most difficult-to-treat personality disorders in the DSM, primarily because it WORKS for the narcissist. He is always right, someone else is always wrong. He is always the best, and someone else is always worse. Etc. Where is the motivation to change? Therapy for narcissists is like giving a kid who has unlimited ice cream the option to try spinach instead.
I'm sorry you have been so deeply confused by this person. You don't deserve it, and neither do your kids.
I could go on. What I learned from it is that if someone has a bad reputation that persists over time, believe it!
Just like you, I don't believe that my ex-husband is a pedophile. I do, however, believe that he was an opportunistic offender. Many sexual abusers aren't pedophiles. Many rapists don't plan out their attacks. Sociopaths and others who become sexual offenders often do so when the opportunity is in front of them. I know that this is what happened with my ex-husband. He carried my daughter up to bed when she was asleep, and that's when he abused her. I was sound asleep in the other room. I don't think he was going to try to do it, but when the opportunity arose, he took it. Perhaps this is also what happened with your husband. In my experience, my gut has never been wrong. I've learned to trust it above all else. If your gut is telling you that something happened, then believe it. People get divorced over much, much less. I'm not advising you to divorce or do anything else, that can only be up to you, however, you are not the person who is doing something wrong here. Also, do you think you can have a successful, happy marriage with someone who treat you the way that he does anyway? Do you think you can have a happy, for filling marriage with someone you are disgusted by him because he may or may have not touched your children? Please look carefully at your options. I know that I am so happy that I got divorced. I was devastated at the time, but I am no longer being treated like a piece of trash. Even without your suspicions about your children, it sounds as though you are being emotionally abused. Deserves that. I hope you are OK, please PM me anytime.
Anyway, moving on. I am outraged about your situation. Please listen to what these wise women here are saying. I completely agree. I'm a crisis response team member for domestic violence, an advocate for women's issues. You are in a situation that is almost impossible. I agree with you that you need to be there to protect the kids, they need someone believing them and protecting them. But please lose the "it's all hearsay" excuse for your husband. I think your mind and your relationship has had to deal with some serious, dangerous infractions, and it's difficult for you to discern the truth thru the lies at this point.
Let's just look at what I can pick out that you wrote above about you and your husband: PROs-- he's intelligent, a good drummer, funny, a hard worker, good with money. CONs-- you have a strong gut feeling he sexually abused the kids, you often question your judgement and decisions, he has a history of sexually deviant behavior, you have very few friends and they won't talk about your issues, he claims you are ruining everything and destroying the family, he controls all the finances, he won't put your name on anything because your bad credit will raise your rates (a blatant lie), you can't stay out past 9:30pm, he uses the kids to get you home saying they need you, he goes over your shopping receipts and disapproves of normal purchases so he believes you don't deserve to have what others have, he's passive aggressive, sends you on guilt trips, won't ever admit he's wrong, threatens removal of children, car, phone, and children's activities if you try to leave, claims you're psychotic (as he did with 2 women he raped), claims you need meds for mental issues, claims you transfer issues from your father onto him and the kids, he's negative, he's sickening sweet overattentive to the kids, he's a martyr, he's a convicted rapist sentenced to 20 yrs who got out on a technicality after 5 (hmmm, how did that happen?), he has documented sexual harassment of coworkers, one coworker has a restraining order against him to protect her from his sexual aggression, you found a RipOff report by a woman claiming he's a sexual predator, etc, etc, etc.
Ashley, there are many different kinds of abuse: physical, verbal, emotional, sexual, financial, psychological, spiritual, environmental, etc. I have no doubt that you are being verbally, emotionally, financially, psychologically, spiritually, and possibly environmentally abused. The suggestions above to call a women's support agency are spot on, excellent suggestions. You need to have some professionals helping you with this. You can search online for this or if you want to PM me with your county and state, I can get them from our agency for you--we have a book of all the DV centers in the country.
I think you've done an amazing job so far handling this but because of your husband's manipulation of you and the kids, I think you need better equipped support. The agency I work with has many resources-- helpline, crisis response team, safe house, transitional living, vocational training, counseling, legal advocacy, case management, batterers intervention, dating abuse prevention, child protective services liaison, extensive referral service, etc. That type of agency can help you learn what is happening in your relationship, what your options are, what the legal aspects are, what resources you have (most are free), and how to get a safe plan in place.
I would bet my last dollar that the claims made by these other women are truthful. Look at what they probably went thru to get to the point of making the claims. They thought about it for how long, about how it would make them look, what it may put their families thru, etc. Getting a restraining order is not easy, it entails presenting evidence for a temporary order, then another court appearance facing the abuser and presenting evidence for making the temporary order final or permanent.
Abuse doesn't decrease all on its own, it increases, or escalates, even if it's in very crafty, subtle ways, it still escalates without some form of intervention. I'm very concerned for your safety, and that of your kids. Don't tell anyone that you are seeking support here, or if/when you reach out to a women's center. I think your kids can benefit from being evaluated at a child advocacy center, also suggested above. The relationship that's being modeled between you and your husband is not a healthy, positive or constructive one, there are many elements missing, respect and fair negotiating as well as others, that are not being witnessed by your kids, and this will effect how they look at relationships later.
Your husband is absolutely manipulating all of you, and your kids will figure that out at some point when they are more mature, and that will also cause issues with them. He has received no therapy and has admitted to nothing, accepts accountability for nothing. You are not seen by your husband as an equal, credible, therapeutic, or deserving of proper treatment. The issues he has started far before you met him, and it's his responsibility to acknowledge them and seek proper therapy. But at this point you serve a purpose for him, and fit into his agenda. Your responsibility is to acknowledge you need help and seek it. Because of his abusive nature, you have to do it secretly, but believe me, the women's agencies do that on a daily basis and can help you with everything you need to get in place to have a safe plan to handle this.
I hope this is helpful, my heart goes out to you and your kids. Please PM me if you feel the need. Keep coming here for support. Keeping you in my thoughts and prayers...
Trust your gut about him abusing your kids.....once you have found the courage to 'know' he did it, then you will find the courage to leave however bad it is financially.
COME ON THIS SITE WHENEVER YOU CAN........the women on here are really clued up......they are sharing really sound knowledge and advice.
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Warrior mom - I'm so sorry that you had to endure parents that were narcissist. :-( I have thought that my husband might be one. He definitely has some of the behaviors of a narcissist, but many of them he does not. Makes things a bit more confusing for me.
Momof2b - I guess he is abusing me financially. I never knew this was a thing. So thank you for informing me! I plan on going to a domestic abuse center next week and seeing what they can offer me in the form of counseling / help in getting out of my situation eventually. Selling some things is a great idea. I occasionally sell the kids clothes at consignment, but then turn around and get them more! ;-) I have talked to my older children - one is 20 and out of the house and one is 15 and has been with my husband - his step-father for the past 9 years. He doesn't like him, but it's not because my husband has ever done anything to him. I am 99.9% positive he would tell me. He would jump at the chance to lock him up right now. My 20 year old daughter too. She would absolutely tell me if he had ever done anything to her. She lived with her father and step mother from 12 - 15, so she was not with my husband as long as my son. Anyway, I have also brought this up a couple of times with my younger children since their disclosures and they won't say a thing if anything happened. My now 7 (6 at time of disclosure) year old says there isn't a secret and that her and my husband just cuddled. I tell her that I'm here if she ever wants to talk to me. She gets VERY upset any time I have brought this up and will shut me down pretty quickly. Telling me to stop talking about it. Nothing happened. So that is why I hesitate to keep bringing it up. And with my 4 year old son (3 at disclosure), he asked me once if I loved daddy (about 2 months ago) and I said that I was angry with him for what he had done. I didn't say more than that. Just that I am angry with him. My son got very angry and said, "mommy, I lied." Daddy didn't do anything or he might have said daddy didn't touch my butt with a stick (he originally said that he licked his butt too). Anyway, I don't recall what exactly followed "mommy I lied", but it concerned me because he had never said that before. "I lied" I almost feel like he was told to say that. I even asked him. Did daddy tell you to say that. To which he replied "NO!!" and I dropped it because he was clearly very upset.
Naive1 - Thank you for the link! I had never thought of why he wasn't more attentive to me after disclosures and being reunited with children. You are right. :-( As I told Momof2b above, next week I plan on going to women's shelter. I am ready to move forward and fight just as hard as I did in the beginning (1 year ago) for my kids and myself!!! Thank you for helping me see things more clearly.
Musicmommy - Wow! Our husbands (your ex) do sound so similar. Yes, I think my husband fits the description of an opportunistic offender. Living with him is so hard. I mean, he's doing everything in his power to prove he is an outstanding father and husband, but I still look at him sometimes and want to hurt him very badly. :-/ And yes, my gut told me when this all happened that it was true. Actually, there was something that occurred with my daughter when I was in the hospital having our son and upon returning home, that made my gut shout that something happened / wasn't right due to something my daughter was doing and the conversation I had with her that followed. Up until that point, I had no reason to believe that my husband would do anything to his own child. I wrote about it a year ago, but won't go into what all was said. My gut was screaming at me then - but I confronted him instead of listening to it and going to authorities. I have so much guilt over that. He was SO convincing and I was so sleep deprived / had brand new baby and thought I must have taken everything wrong. But that stuck with me. So much so, that I only left my daughter alone with him twice in the three years from that time and leading up to her most recent disclosure (which wasn't an actual disclosure? But it kind of was). The two times I did leave her alone were because I didn't have a choice (long story) and both times my stomach was in knots the entire time I was away from her. One of the times was the last in which she said that she couldn't tell me if they had laid down as daddy said that was a secret. SOOOOO amen for listening to my gut! I should have 4 years ago. Heck, I should have a LOOOOOONG time before that when I was finding out things about him and his past. And NO on the successful / happy marriage. I know that I will leave him. I guess the when and how is what I'm struggling with.
Bandmom5 - I HATE when I lose everything I've typed out here. It happened the other day to me. Thanks for taking the time (twice) to respond! :-) Your pro / con list was a real eye opener! It's crazy the excuses I make for him sometimes. Because he does have some wonderful traits and can be so empathetic and has done some wonderful things for myself and my older son and is a great father (barring that he might have touched our children). I want to believe he's a good person. It's hard to see that he might not be everything he seems. As I stated above, next week my goal is to go to a domestic abuse agency and see what they might help me with. I definitely am concerned with what my children are seeing in our marriage. While there is no fighting, there is an underlying tension and absolutely no physical contact or playfulness or love between their father and I. So staying might not be the best thing. But I am trying to protect them and up until now I thought that the only way to do that, given everything that has occurred, was to stay. I realize now I might be hurting them more than helping. :-( Thank you so much for your heartfelt response and all of the links. I will look at them soon!
Crybaby - Thanks for your support. I wish I could just boot him out! ;-)