The body issues have so many triggers that they're very difficult to predict/prevent. Sounds as if you handled this as well as anyone could. Distractions, like a bath, are good to interrupt any perseverating. I'm sorry for this new and unwanted symptom......

Dear WarriorMom, I feel so close to you because my now 5 years-old has also been experiencing lots of flashbacks. He was around 1 and 2 years old when he was orally and anally raped along with his then 3 years old brother by my father in law. Their grandfather used objects as well as his own penis to rape my babies and switched roles with my mother in law. Disclosure was almost 3 years ago (first elder, and a some weeks later, younger son disclosed to me and my husband). The issue is, my five years old told me yesterday he did not want to marry. He also said he was feeling shy about having that conversation but that he had decided to be brave and to talk to me, if I could keep the secret (he is a very mature, still emotionally wound little boy). I said yes, kneeled by himself in the kitchen and listened: he asked me if he was small or big. I said he was small, a little boy, but with a height and weight appropriate for his age (we had been to the pediatrician a few days earlier and she confirmed that to him). He then said: "But a person said I was very big, bigger than that person, and that person was an adult!" (I knew from other disclosures that my mother in law told him that she was the baby and he, my then 2 years old, was the adult, yes, this is so twisted I feel sick). I continued listening, calmly: "the person told me that we were married, and dating, and the person kissed me in my mouth. Mom, how will I kiss when I get married?". I told him that only adults get married and that only them can kiss in their mouth, if they love and respect each other, in order to create a family. He continued: "Mom, would you kiss me in my mouth?" "Never, son, this is how a mother or any good adult kiss a little boy like you" (and I kissed him tenderly on his cheek and forehead). He seemed confused and tried to put his mouth on my lips. I said no, but calmly. And he said "I will never marry so I never have to date and kiss a person in the mouth again". Damned abusers… and to complete my horrible days, my husband (son of the damned pedophiles) has started to "remember" / disclose to me, very slowly, that he had indeed been raped by his father as a toddler and preschooler. I had always suspected that, as well as our therapists and the district attorney, but he always said "no" or that he did not recall anything about that. I feel relieved, on one side, that he is finally accepting and processing (maybe) the impact this had on his life and emotional unbalance. At the same time, I feel like why the hell did he not tell / remember this before we trusted our babies to those two psychos?

by the way, Warriormom, forgot to say that, according to many scientific studies, being abused by a young perpetrator is, to some extent, less damaging to the victim than when the perpetrator is a far older adult. My children were 1 and 2 when the abused, that lasted for at least 2 years, where perpetrated by two crazy psychos (their grandparents) then in their late sixties. They were also raped and filmed by a gang of other perverted adults, friends of their grandparents. That kind of abusers (old and experienced) abuse not only physically but also mentally and spiritually, creating the most abject, horrendous justifications and stories to frame the attacks. For example, that they old perverts were in fact the "babies", that my two boys were in fact to little "princesses" and not even God could decide their gender (they, the abusers, dressed my boys like girls before the rapes), and so on. So, in some way, having a young perpetrator is horrible, but apparently less damaging to the mind of the victim than those old perverted, experienced, damned abusers.

The trouble with trying to rank the damage of child sexual abuse is that for the the victim and for the parents, the abuse was 100% of their experience of abuse. The horrors you describe are beyond the imagination of most humans (I hope), but the horrors Warriormom's children have experienced from an age-mate are also beyond imagination. This makes acceptance such a difficult road, no matter what kind of abuse a child has suffered. Acceptance means believing and processing and owning that direct contact with pure evil has actually occurred. I understand the point of those studies -- it's easier to look at a child and say "he was just a kid, and kids make mistakes," so survivors can at least attribute an excuse to the perpetrator. But the experience of having been abused in any way (by narcissistic parents, by bullies, et al.) shapes children in ways that they (and their non-offending parents) will have to continue to address for years.

As for your son's aversion to marriage, ThreeMusk, I'm sure this is deeply troubling, as your son is already projecting the effects of his abuse far into the future. But....it's also a good sign, as it's developmentally normal for kids your son's age to think of kissing as "gross" -- by then, they have some idea of how "cooties" are exchanged (learning to sneeze and cough away from others, etc.). If you're that age, in fact, a quick tap on the arm is enough to confer "cooties"!! So it sounds as if you did well with simply restating that your cheek/forehead kisses are the only kinds of kisses he should experience at this age.

Threemusketeersback3,

Thank-you for sharing more of your story with me! I honestly have been hoping you would because our little guys are close in age. A few months ago, we went through a similar processing where my 5 year old told me how God had said it was ok for boys and boys to marry and girls and girls to marry. We had to talk through that for about a week, sharing with our pastor also, and just kept reinforcing the Adam & Eve dynamic until he finally got it! But then, a few months later, he went through hating himself and wanting to be a girl. We learned it was because his penis triggered bad memories so we just started to inflate his masculinity and reaffirm that we were so glad God made him a boy...and now he's doing ok, so we continue to build him up.

If you haven't read all my posts then you won't know his whole story. We aren't sure how bad it really got but we know he was abused at least physically by all 6 family members and sexually by everyone but the dad. He's told us they masturbated him, that momster used a Polaroid camera to take pictures of herself dressed immodest/of monster girl and boy fighting on the bed/& of him. We also know they tried to do child porn with him telling him to be the nasty cowboy and monster girl would be the nasty Indian. We also know they showed my kids videos of their kids doing porno, videotaped it in front oh him, and showed the dad in a video getting undressed before momster took her whole family's clothes off and tried to get my kids to participate! I know that at least monster boy used to forcibly, orally rape my little guy, i.e. his penis in my kid's mouth, and probably on his penis too since he did that with my older son. That knives were used to cut him (at least 10 scars on back), that he was threatened with other weapons to participate. Basically these people were sado-massichists. So that is his truth in a nutshell.

I validate what you Shared with me in that at least it wasn't a family adult that did it...that will be more difficult to recover from relationally but it sounds like your doing a great job! I'm really sorry about your husband but maybe it's comforting to know that if he went through what your boy's went through and could grow up to marry/love you, then your boy's have hope. If/when your done with the legal world, I'd encourage your hubby to share a tidbit with the boys just so they know that it's not the end of life for them and they can share more openly as they grow up. I share my abuse from my parents and how I felt whenever it is appropriate to help my kids not feel alone in what they are processing. It's a blessing in disguise because you can also pick up on certain reactions because you've had them. (You, as in me.)

Anyways, I wanted to share with you our night routine.
~So, 5 mg of chewable melatonin at 6:30 p.m., with dinner.
~eat dinner
~brush teeth, get p.j.s & pull-up on, wash hands & face, go potty (sometimes a bath)
~daddy read a book with him of his choosing
~picks what music to listen to, usually old fashioned Christmas (on one of our phones)
~projector nightlight of the earth points up at ceiling, fan on, pillow pet stars turned on to point at underside of bunkbed/wall, music tucked up in underside of bunkbed and now we "charge" his special therapist-given glow-in-the-dark fidget too.
~pray with mommy, 1st he prays then I pray.
(Aside from specifics of the day, we pray that God would heal him inside and out. That he'd use his super hero powers to protect himself in his dreams, that angels would protect him all around his bed and that he won't have nightmares or leg/arm pain.)
~then we talk through some specific verses and imagery (Joshua 1:9, proverbs 3:5, psalm 46:1-2) How he's inside a big rock fortress that is God protecting him. How out front the warrior angels, mom, dad, Therapist, dog & siblings are protecting him, how nobody is hurting him in the fortress; talk about good stuff he likes to do, and finally that he is safe in his bed, safe in his home, safe in his dreams.
~on bad nights, I stay in bed until he falls asleep or rock/sing to him in the rocking chair until he passes out
~kiss on forehead & cheeks goodnight then sneak out
~sometimes we have to leave on the hallway light to help him feel safe

Anyways, let me know if there are any tips you've learned with your boy's?

Naive1.2, once upon a time the detective told me that all abuse is the same to the victim. That there are no degrees. But I, as a Survivor, disagree. I can't compare my 1x experience to what my kids have gone through! And again, my oldest with his sister was very different than monster family as is evidenced by their natural interactions now! Yesterday, the kids were all telling each other they loved each other and there was no hesitation between these two. So, there's no need to be politically correct... threemusketeers's kids seem to have had it worse. Thank you for standing up for me though! I am happy to hear that it is easier to deal with a child perp...it gives me hope.

Thanks for your responses, both of you. I get lonely over here way too often. :)

What a great bedtime routine!

I agree that your abuse seems different to you now -- and your children's abuse seems millions of times worse, especially because they're your children!! -- but when it was happening it was all there was, and it lingered. Political correctness is a different matter. My point was that all abuse needs to be acknowledged and addressed in order for healing to have a chance. For the victim, it is the worst abuse he/she has ever known, and it's 100% raw and painful. I think we can all agree that group rape of children by adults is, criminally, magnitudes worse than child-on-child rape and violence (esp. when the perpetrator is mimicking abuse he has suffered at the hands of adults). I can count as a very twisted "blessing" that my daughter's serial rapist was not a family member. But the emotional fallout -- if not considered thoroughly for each child -- is 100% for each crime.

Dear Naive, thank you so much for your input. Last night I was thinking of the few people I have opened about the tragedy suffered by our family, and I noticed that besides you (and the other DS protective moms) and my own parents and therapist, I have not opened to anyone yet. It feels good to be able to vent out with people who can really feel what you are trying to transmit. Thanks again!

Dear WarriorMom, did you know that the nickname I received years ago from friends is precisely "WarriorMom"? :O) Those friends do not have a clue of what has happened with my children (the abuses), but they call me that way because I have always been so devoted to my kids. Imagine if they knew what my entire reality is. What would they call me? :O)) Ninja Mom? :O)) I loved the bed routine that you use and I will take note of it for my kids as well. Thank you so much! Regarding what happened to you baby, I am so sorry to hear that. And at the same time, I felt the relief of not feeling so weird, because I can now vent out without feeling that maybe nobody will believe in me. How can they perpetrators be so twisted, for God's sake! Yesterday I took my three little boys to the movies (number 1 and 2 are the survivors, youngest was saved by their brothers' disclosure). It was a small movie theater and suddenly I saw my eldest' face totally transformed. He seemed to be wearing a mask, the make of another person, of an old man, with an expression of… "evil", "perversion", I find it hard to describe the way his beautiful face transformed. I somehow managed, without being totally aware of it, to ignore it and to focus on his accommodating his brothers in their seats. Some minutes ago, I glanced at eldest son again: he was rhythmically putting and taking out his hand out of his mouth. And then, I remembered: he had told me that his grandfather had managed to smuggle him into a "naughty movie theater" in which him and other "bad men" did things while watching the movies. In the movies (deep breath here, I am dying inside), they "hurt a one year old little girl" before giving candies to her and they also … raped a sheep. I had managed to forget that. He did not. How did I react? I just decided not to offer that precious moment of our life together (watching nice cartoons) to the perpetrators. I focused on the NOW. I held his hand. I ignored the faces he was doing (maybe unawarely). I waited until he focused on the cartoon and took his hand out of his mouth (I was feeling like vomiting by the time, but I stated strong). The afternoon continued with no triggers, and happily. In the evening I told my husband, and we continued with our routine of love, bedtime stories, etc. He slept well, with no nightmares. I dreamed of killing (actually using a knife to mutilate/ castrate both my in-laws) but I am feeling better today. Another day to face, to work, to put a nice face for my kids ones we meet after school. Warrior, you have another Warrior in here. Our children have our support and love. They have been severely wound, but there are also so many suffering children around the world… I strongly encourage everybody (including you, my dear Naive) the book by Andrew Solomon "Far from the Tree", in which a lot of parents narrate to the author how it is to face a present and a future with they children that they would have never dared to imagine. It does not deal directly with protective parents of abused children, but it is so easy to relate to their compassionate, moving stories. Hugs to all!

… and sorry for the many typos…. :O(

Threemusketeersback3,
That is very funny about the name! You are definitely a Warrior mama! I like to picture Xena princess Warrior in all her battle gear fighting off the monsters....everyone who hurts or won't support my babies.

We had a similar experience with my 5 year old...we were having a pretty average day at home, when all of a sudden, my never-fingers-in-the-mouth child began sucking his pointer finger gliding it in, out, in, out, over and over again! He'd never done that before or since and stated he was feeling "shy" when he did it. It was a very uncomfortable 30 minutes, even triggering other kid's flashbacks! But he processed whatever it was out.

Thanks for the book recommendation. I'm still trying to finish a book I started almost 2 years ago by Justin & Lindsey Holcomb, "Disgraced." It's also a good book with a biblical-psychological perspective on sexual abuse and includes numerous testimonies of how others have survived and thrived. Since I homeschool, I don't get a ton if "free time. " lol

We're here for you, whatever you need! Stay strong Warrior mom!