Here is what I have experienced.

Initially, I wanted to know all the details. I certainly got plenty when my daughter first told me about how she came to be victimized in the first place. But I knew those details couldn't be all -- the abuse continued for perhaps a year (or more?) before we moved away from that town, 14 years before my daughter would disclose to me. I also believed that my daughter needed to purge herself of everything she had suffered -- I thought that the only way she would recover was to get it all out. And third, I wanted to know if anything my daughter could remember could be used as evidence for the police to investigate. For example, were there photographs? I believe there were, because my daughter has been camera-shy ever since she was 8, the year she was raped. Finally, I think I needed to punish myself for not knowing. In my mind, the details might clarify just how bad and neglectful a mother I was to send my daughter across the street and into his trap, time and time again, even though I hadn’t a clue and would never have done so if I’d known.

Here is what I have learned.

First, you will never know all the details, because victims cannot remember them all -- compartmentalized forgetting as a way of self-protection, plus the normal act of brain pruning during adolescence, mean that (except in very rare cases) it simply isn't possible for them to reconstruct a narrative of abuse from beginning to end.

Second, our children do not want to share all the details because they fear destroying us -- their abusers have warned them that they will kill us parents if the children tell, and/or they say "your mother will not understand" -- or worse: "your mother won't understand our special love."

Third, it may not be advisable to encourage a point-blank accounting of all the details because the victim may not be ready for that fresh blast of re-traumatization. Remember, any time you focus on sensory or emotional details, you ask your mind and body to relive the act of experiencing them. Concentrate on the idea of getting a flu shot, and you can feel your arm flinch a bit. Think about the smell of a skunk and you can feel your nose move. In the same way, a survivor thinking of his/her waking nightmare of abuse can be very destructive. Survivors may, in time, be ready to write it all down, but this takes a slow, steady therapeutic approach, with great sensitivity to overload, rather than a demand to get it all out right now.

Fourth, even if you know all of the details, your imagination will make them worse or distort them. Sometimes, like I said, we want to punish ourselves for something we mistakenly believe we could have prevented. And sometimes, in an effort to comfort ourselves, we edit what seems “worst,” or too painful to believe, and that is disrespectful to survivors.

So, in short, you never will know all the details, you never can know all the details, and, when it comes right down to it, you probably don’t want to know all the details. At this point, anyway, it’s completely irrelevant what you or I know; what matters is: do we believe the details we do know? Believing our children and being willing to do whatever we can to support them – those are everyone’s first steps toward healing.

Also, as my daughter wisely says, there is no point in comparing one form or degree of abuse with another. The worst molestation a child has experienced is the worst she has experienced, and that is a 100% violation, and enough to do long-term damage. Will it really matter to you if it was "just" touching? Imagine being a second-grader going back to school the day after that happens. Will you be able to concentrate on math that day? Will you worry that it might happen again? Will shame and worry begin to crowd out the happier thoughts a child deserves to enjoy?

Thank you. I know very little. Sometimes I fear that will influence me to reduce it to less than it actually was because wrapping my mind around it is so very hard.

It is technically impossible to wrap your head around this truth. It will never make sense to someone who loves her children.

I also believe it is much easier for them to tell the details to strangers,in that case you do not need to know the details.May I address to what you said?"reduce it to less than it really was"My daughter was not raped,her cousin fondled her,top and bottom,and he made her touch him,he held her down and humped her,fully clothed,he held the door shut and would not let her out,he threatened her and told her not to tell,this went on for 2years.Now my daughter already suffered from anxiety disorder.if I had the time to tell you all that she has been through,suicidal ideation,cutting,h horrible excruciating depression,social anxiety to mention a few,you would think she was violently raped.But as her therapist told me abuse is abuse.It is all bad because that is what the child knows.So you see just as everyone has a different tolerence for pain so do abuse victims.Dont ever let anyone tell you it wasn't that bad,its all bad and the details don't really matter.You may never know and that might be a blessing.

I suspect that your daughters would not have told you even the minimum if they did not hope that it would be enough for you to believe, and to understand that they have suffered. You believed them, and that's essential to their healing. Now you have to show them what believing that means. I'm sorry this is so incredibly hard.

Keep writing.

Thank you for being here. The friends I have confided in know things like pornography addictions and affairs. Those are terrible and hurtful things too, but there is a depth to this that cannot be fathomed. My younger daughter is the one who told me (actually, I asked her) the other daughter is ten years older. I called her and asked if her father had ever touched her inappropriately. The line went silent. I told her he had touched her younger sister. It was only then that she admitted something had happened.

My daughters reacted to the abuse in totally opposite ways. The older daughter became her dad's sidekick. She went with him on jobs, rides to the store, errands... She never avoided him. The younger never wanted to go, hated to be left home. My relationship with the older daughter is unraveling and I feel helpless. In the meantime she tells me to stop "blaming everything on Dad." I am afraid that deep down underneath she blames me.

How much do you need to know?

*Sigh* O.K. I have a few responses.

(I will apologize in advance if I'm a little too blunt but coming from someone who had a family member be an abuser, I understand that connection and how hard it is to overcome when processing this information. I also understand your stance on Christianity, forgiveness, reconciling, etc.)

1) You need to know more than the 1st disclosure, that much I have learned the hard way! If I went off of my daughter's 1st disclosure than my oldest son was the worst abuse she ever had and the other little boy's situation, (who I call monster boy), of blocking her in the bathroom and touching her vagina before letting her out was a one time occurrence of "innocent childhood curiosity" AND she was the only victim of monster boy. After listening to 1 1/2 years of disclosures, the reality that has come out, (and mind you even just this month a new rapist was disclosed), is that my oldest son was the least of the abuse and was instigated usually by our daughter because she had been being physically/sexually abused by my than "best friend's" family for about 5 years. She was raped by 2 of their boys numerous times, beaten up and had pictures taken of her, made to perform in pornographic films, filmed being raped, physically abused by my "best friend," that it had started from the first time she spent the night when she was 5, abused during church musicals, abused during Bible clubs, that her friend, monster boy's little sister, would set her up and watch her be abused, that all the monster brothers had sex with this monster girl, that 2 of my boys had been sexually abused by monster boy, my younger son, than a toddler, anally raped witnessed by his sister, that my younger boy had been molested by all the children of that family, had been forced to also participate in porno films, and been physically abused by MOMster and her husband, had been exposed to adult nakedness in a film/photos, that other children had been victims, the list goes on...SO my point is, and ALL of us can attest to this fact, the first time something is told to you by either victim or perpetrator it is ONLY scratching the surface of a HUGE volcano ready to erupt! So, if you're o.k. with only knowing the tip of the iceberg...(pardon my bluntness but I think you need this)...that YOUR HUSBAND used the same hands that he caressed you with that lead to making these precious daughters ON your precious daughters for sexual gratification and continued to use his hands on YOU while lying to you...and you can still stand him doing that now without knowing everything those hands have done? Than you know enough. It's enough to know that it's not something you can simply say "o.k., I forgive you" and move on.

2) Do you know how old your daughters were when they were abused? Unfortunately, whether you stay with your husband or not, you need to know this because there COULD be other victims, past or future. Your grand daughter might not be in trouble now but she could be in the future. You are right for not allowing children at your house because bad things can happen in split seconds...I know this the hard way. I found a great article written on pedophiles in the church that you should read. In stead of being the church, think of it talking about in YOUR home and YOU being the "congregation." I think it should put some of your Christian questions to rest. The part that stood out the most in regards to your situation was this quote (caps by ME):

"At the time this offender arrived at the church, many obviously believed his words that he was a “CHANGED PERSON” in Jesus. Even if that were true, Christians must understand the FUNDAMENTAL DIFFERENCE between an offender’s CHANGED position BEFORE GOD and the fact he/she is STILL the SAME PERSON who COMMITTED an abhorrent OFFENCE against a child that comes with LIFETIME CONSEQUENCES. (The 7th chapter of Romans has much to say about the fact that Christians are still in a battle with our flesh.) DON'T BE FOOLED, offenders love a distorted theology that gives them immediate access to the little ones in the church."
http://religionnews.com/2014/06/27/4-lessons-learn-church-just-doesnt-get/

3) Our detective would say "all abuse is bad abuse...I don't believe there's any degree to abuse" every time I would attempt to compare and contrast my son/daughter's case with monster family's/my children's case. He wouldn't accept that my son, who we know only molested, no penetration, mostly mutual interaction with his sister, was any better than the monster family who raped, sodomized, videographed, took pictures, physically abused, degraded, verbally demeaned 3 of my children while my son was dying from cancer in the hospital! I really struggled with that concept BUT I'm starting to understand why he said it. (Now, our detective was NOT good at his job, even the victim's advocate agreed, but...!) Basically, like what the other ladies are trying to express to you, it's not about the degree of abuse. It's about the betrayal of trust. It's about the loss of innocence. It's about the invasion of privacy. It took my daughter over a year to be able to be around her brother on a regular basis, 1 1/2 years before she could view him as just her brother again. (He, being a cancer patient, lived in another state for a year and we flew him in every few months for his cancer scans, and used that time to gradually reacquaint them in familial activities.) And the abuse was a short-term thing, right after he finished his chemotherapy treatment. He's home now but with a self-made safety plan in place, trust that must be earned over a long period of time and an understanding of the reality of what happened and how it effects our whole family. We are 1 1/2 years after disclosures and new stuff is still coming out in regards to monster family! And even with the kids dealing with all the bad stuff, they've not been able to handle seeing THAT family! I think a good question to ask yourself is "how would I react if the abuser was not my husband?" That's STILL how you SHOULD react now. You were right to be suspicious of your husband not confessing to you until your daughters let the cat out of the bag...HE LIED TO YOU FOR YEARS, whether by omission or intentionally! Your marriage is NOT what you think it is and hasn't been for a while. (Just like my "friendship" with monster family was totally false.) Now, I do believe in the sanctity of marriage so I'm not specifically stating that you should divorce him. I'm reminding you to forgive him with eyes WIDE OPEN.

4) You have been blessed with a rare confession of truth. Most of us have never heard our children's perpetrator's confess the truth and some evil perps have gone out of there way to state that our children are actually lying in regards to the abuse! But, your daughters both told you. Your husband, the child molester, told you. So, there's no doubt...there was sexual abuse. This is a gift! Don't throw it away. You shared with us that for sure it was two of your daughters. You also shared "All of my kids (both the boys and the girls) claim that their dad is different now than he was." HOW is he different? How do the BOYS KNOW he's different? Are you sure that none of your other children were abused? All 3 of my children had varying degrees of abuse that the other didn't know. I also want to remind you of what you said in regards to your younger daughter. "...my younger daughter who told me, but not without me asking her if someone had ever touched her inappropriately. Through tears she nodded. "was it one of your brothers?" I asked her. She said no. "Was it your father?" I asked, and she nodded her head. My youngest daughter said "It seemed long at the time, but then again, everything seems long when you are little."" THAT is your younger daughter begging to be believed, helped, loved for the truth of who she is. These words and actions are NOT of a young woman who has healed and forgiven but of a victim who has survived until she could unload her burden from her own broken spirit to someone stronger: YOU. She has only just begun to talk. Take a record of everything she tells you (write or record); someday in the future it will help someone, even if it's just your daughter to re-hear what she shared, her story. How old is she? She really needs to be in therapy!

I also wanted to ask you, when did you learn your husband had been abused as a child? You stated, "To the best of my knowledge, my sisters in law were abused by their father and they in turn abused their little brother. I NEVER KNEW they had abused him when he was a child because he, like my daughter, never talked about it." So, did he tell you when he was confessing his sins against your daughters? Giving an excuse for doing something so disgusting is NOT true repentance...it's paying lip service to man and preying on your emotions. Has he actually been able to simply tell you what he did without throwing in the WHYS of his choices? I mean, has he ever owned that he was horribly wrong just because he was wrong?! Has he apologized to your daughters...publicly in front of your immediate family (since it sounds like all the kids and you now know the secret)? That would be the true form of a Christian repentant spirit. I keep having this saying that Jesus stated run through my head in regards to your story: "pay unto Caesar that which is Caesar's and unto God that which is God's." He might have made his peace with God but legally he is still found wanting...if he REALLY is repentant, than he should go confess to the police. We had to report our son to the police and I seriously thought they would take him to court because of the age difference however they actually dismissed the case! THAT was leaving it in God's hands. We followed man's law, God's law and were still able to reunify/heal as a family living within the boundaries of truth. On the flip side of the coin, our monster family was also dismissed and never tried for numerous reasons the detective spouted at me. Because your children don't want to witness, the DA might not be willing to go to trial. However, on the flip side, if he doesn't get reported and if something else ever happens to anyone else, I think YOU can be considered ALSO responsible for his sexual misbehavior because you never reported it after learning the truth. Do you trust him enough to gamble with your own freedom? Like you said, this is the most difficult thing you've ever had to deal with. (Now, mind you, I'm no attorney! I've just read a LOT and researched in regards to stuff like this because of our son. Technically, if our son does any other deviant sexual acts before he turns 18, especially to our children, my husband and I will be held liable for bringing him in to our home...so we really took a leap of faith in bringing him home!)

So, if you have answered the question "how would I react if the abuser was not my husband?" you should have a little more knowledge of what your next step should be. You should have many of your questions about forgiveness and how to deal with this news answered. Knowing and doing are two different things...reach out for physical help in your immediate area. Your therapist? Pastor? Someone from your support group? <3 <3 <3

Also, please check out this Christian website to answer some of your questions from a godly perspective on abusers and victims: http://www.netgrace.org/common-questions/

Perhaps she does blame you. It's not rational. You never know what he told her to keep her loyalty -- or silence. But it might behoove your relationship to drop all of your defenses and say to your daughter, "I'm willing to take whatever blame you believe I deserve, because I love you. I'd rather you blame and despise me than to have you think I wouldn't support you fully now that I know the truth."

You also might wish to consider that your older daughter is a hero: she may have stuck close to her father all of her life in order to keep an eye on him and protect her younger sister. Maybe this is one reason the line went silent -- she didn't know he had also hurt her baby sister.

The details, as we discussed, are less important. Whether or not your daughter believes that you truly care about her and appreciate what she has lost -- that IS important.

Here's something to consider: my daughter still talks about how SHE messed up. Yes, she did turn to drugs as a result of the abuse and subsequent traumas. I always remind her that the blame for her poor self-esteem falls solely on the shoulders of the perpetrator. Whether or not she is ready to believe that, I don't know. But for a variety of reasons, it can be very difficult and scary for survivors to assess blame correctly. Keeping those feelings of anger toward the abuser under control is essential to survival.

Probably a year or so after the abuse first began, my daughter was really sad. I asked her why and her answer was, "I am so mad, I feel as if I could start screaming and never stop." I tried so hard to get her to elaborate, but she would not. He had threatened to kill her (and all of us), after all, and she had learned -- immediately -- how to keep her mouth shut. (We took her to therapists for years, even after we'd moved 250 miles away, but she never said a word to them either.) So, it may be that your daughter cannot afford, yet, to feel that level of anger at the true cause of her pain. Allow her to direct it safely your way, then, with no reference at all to her father for the moment -- be ready for anything, and say, "Keep letting it out." I am pretty certain, from what you have said here, that your daughter is full of anger toward her father, but that she only feels safe being angry at you. It's hard, but you can take it, because you want to ease her pain.

Keep writing. And please start looking for a therapist of your own.

Thank you again for your answers. I am in agony.
I need to sleep as I got little to none last night.
And please keep my beautiful daughters in your thoughts and prayers.

All of us pray for all of the innocent children,yours are added to the list!

I will keep YOU in my thoughts as well. You are in agony because you are doing something incredibly brave. You're going to face the truth, and you're going to allow your beautiful daughters to own theirs, without shame, at last.

Dear Thismomtoseven,

I wanted to email you a private message but the form isn't working right now. I have a few things more I'd like to share with you AND I sought some wisdom from one of our pastors at church yesterday.

I will go into more detail with you privately but I want to share, (at the risk of being ridiculed), a more Christian perspective on this whole complicated mess you're working through.

My pastor shared some important starting points from a godly perspective:

1) Please seek wisdom on your specific personal circumstances from your pastor. If you won't, why not? Is he not trustworthy? Does he dismiss the seriousness of what the sexual abuse is? If you can't confide in your pastor and have him support your family through this very active trial, find a new church with a pastor you can trust, confide in and that will support you properly. It's going to be a long journey and you need a stable faith-based foundation to lean on.

2) You have EVERY RIGHT to feel how you're feeling right now! There is no sin in processing the betrayal, disgust, pain, anger, etc. that you are feeling. He says that technically your husband committed the worst form of adultery...incest. He says to do whatever you can to save your marriage, knowing full well that that may mean supervised grandbaby visits for your husband, your hubby not being around children alone or in a power of supervision over children, that there will be a LOT of work to overcome the struggles you now have internally...but that your marriage is God-ordained and should only be left if it is not salvageable. Part of the ability to salvage your marriage is evaluating your husbands "repentance," which brings me to the next point.

3) Find out if the root of the sin has truly been overcome. He says that while your husband might not still be molesting your daughters, your husband could STILL be indulging his lustful desires through other means: pornography, other victims, phone-calls, reliving through mementos, etc. IF he is still doing this, and my pastor said you have every right to snoop to figure this out and demand answers from your husband, you have every right to walk away from your marriage without guilt. BUT, if he truly has turned from these horrific desires years ago, is willing to get the help he needs to never do it again, comes clean about important details like WHEN it happened and for HOW LONG (important to know what other red flags to look for and if your daughters truly could have healed without getting traditional therapy), WHAT happened (did he rape the girls?, Any penetration? Threaten them? Etc.) and understands that there could be earthly consequences to this sin and will accept them, then give him a chance to make the marriage work. It all boils down to the state of his heart...is he truly repentant? He also said to take into consideration if you have been abused...again, details that because he doesn't know he struggles to give clear advice on your personal situation.

My pastor made it very clear that he does not feel comfortable counseling without all the facts present and that these answers are based on the minimal knowledge he gained from me (very discreetly, no names at all) and that he reserves the right to change his answer if more details come to light that change the situation.

So, I just wanted to pass on this godly perspective. This man has been around quite a bit, is very learned, I trust his advice as he also has helped us through our situation AND he comes from an abusive childhood so can see that perspective clearly.

One last thing I wanted to share with you, is please get the book "Rid of my Disgrace: Hope and Healing for Victims of Sexual Assault" by Justin & Lindsey Holcomb and give a copy to each of your girls & read it for yourself. It is SUCH a powerful healing tool and comes from not only a Biblical perspective but from a traditional psychological perspective. It goes through and examines the various sexual abuse cases in the Bible, how the woman felt, how the situation was dealt with and God's perspective on it. It also shares stories of present day abuse and does the same break down. I've only been able to read half but it was so enlightening and comforting! It even helps us identify symptoms of our abuse. I really recommend it. They have also written a great book on kids keeping their bodies safe from a Christian perspective that might be a good gift to give to your granddaughter in the future. It's called "God Made All of Me."

https://www.amazon.com/Rid-My-Disgrace-Healing-Victims/dp/1433515989

I hope your session this weekend gave you much needed insight into your next steps. I will be keeping you in prayer. Please remember that while this is a serious matter, God is bigger than all of this. Don't leave Him/His guidelines out of the equation when making decisions. Turn to Him for wisdom. Please message me if you want to talk privately. "Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding. In all your ways acknowledge Him and He will direct your path." Proverbs 3:5 <3

warriormomx5, thank you for your input. I wanted to let you know that I got your comment and will be keeping all of this in mind as I gain information. I don't even know all the answers to those questions myself. I have not talked to my pastor, not because I don't trust him, but because I am still so full of shame myself that a part of me is still protecting my husband. Please pray wisdom for me in regard to this. I need to get a good rest before I answer further and have a long day ahead of me tomorrow. Thank you for your prayers.

Shame is contagious. You have it, your daughters have it. But the perpetrator never catches it until he gets caught.

I was thinking of you on Saturday.