I'm so sorry that you're facing such a horrible situation, and I'm sorriest for your daughter, who, in an instant, lost so much of her sense of security and self-worth. She deserves all of your support -- while your son is in rehab for at least three months, starting immediately. This is absolutely non-negotiable. He has already crossed into felonious territory, and as long as he persists in his substance abuse, you will be unable to reason with him, and he will be unable to deal productively with whatever pain has led to his substance abuse. Alcoholism and drug abuse ALWAYS get worse without treatment. Always.

I speak from intimate experience. My daughter, who was raped when she was 8, began to drink shortly thereafter. Both the rape and her drinking were unknown to me until she was in her early 20s and, by then, addicted to opiates. This past December she finally entered a long-term rehab facility. When she had been clean for two months, she was finally able to report the rape. She is unwilling to participate further in an investigation, so it's essentially dead, but she has shown much personal growth since she reported. But that would ONLY have been possible if she didn't decide to get clean. (It's now been 10 months!)

Counseling will not work for your son as long as he is using. Absolute sobriety must take place first. It's pointless even to talk with your son about any of this, because he WILL continue to choose the substances and denial over anything else he may say is important to him. If he lives with you, or is in any way dependent upon you, you must cut him off immediately. He needs to feel serious consequences NOW. If he does not, you are continuing to enable his monstrous behavior. Here's where to call to learn of rehab options near you (preferably not too near you -- he has to be far enough that he can't easily leave the facility and find a ride home; two hours' distance is the minimum). Here's where you can call to start the search for a 90-day in-patient treatment center for your son: https://www.samhsa.gov/find-help/national-helpline

No, he won't become a monster for life -- if, and ONLY if, he can attain and maintain sobriety.

In the meantime, you must find a therapist for yourself as well as for your daughter (someone who practices EMDR would be preferable). You DO have someone to talk with -- you just need to find her. Here's a place to start: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/therapists

In addition, I cannot recommend Al-Anon more highly for your. It, as well as the wisdom and support I gained on this forum, saved my life. Here's where to find a meeting near you:

https://al-anon.org/al-anon-meetings/find-an-al-anon-meeting/

My advice probably sounds harsh, but this is an emergency. Your children must be separated, and treated separately, You will not begin to know peace again until you have taken these steps. And peace is what I wish for you and your daughter.

I missed where you said your son is still sober. It is unlikely to last. If he is truly remorseful, he will go willingly to rehab.

Here's the thing lots of people use and drink and don't offend on another person. I'm glad he is remorseful and getting help and this is something he needs to work through and make amends for.

Now as for your daughter she needs to be in therapy and she absolutely should report the incident as is the law. This will be best for everyone.... Hard yes but best.

Hopefully with therapy your daughter can come to terms with and have resolve. It's a tuff age and she needs lots of support. Your son is an adult and will learn from his mistakes.

Thank you for your advice. I separated them the morning after and my son did do 12 days in detox and was released into the care of the local AA chapter. We live in a very small rural community .in order for him to receive the help he needed I had to take him an hour and a half away to our nearest major hospital . My first concern was his suicidal thoughts. So that was where we stared. He is on a substance abuse proticol . It consists of meds and twice weekly Dr checks where he talks with his psychiatrist and submits a urine test. I m not so much conerned with his sobriety as I am with my daughters emotional health.
She is very injured. Yes we have both been having therapy.
The thing is this situation is not one that many people will be forward about. Its unique in that her violator was her brother. I'm just looking for someone who has gone through this before and can talk to me about thier experience. Unless you have been a mother in this situation .you really don't know how devastating it is .

My therapist actually sujested I seek out an online form to try and find mothers who have gone or are going through the same thing . I have over whelming guilt and am grieving the loss of my family and what I had hoped for . No family thanksgivings, this Sunday is my son's birthday. I will not be able to wish him a happy birthday. And do I infact want to wish him well . One moment I'm monumentally angry at him the next I miss him terribly. Nothing makes sense anymore . Am I wrong to still love him? Does that make me a perpetrator too? I just need to find someone who gets all these mixed feelings . My daughter is doing well with her therapy , she getting great grades and is a very accomplished dancer. Spent 3 weeks in Switzerland dancing for Canada this summer on her own shortly after this all happened. . As long as I don't talk of see or text or call her brother she's just fine. It's when he comes up that she goes into hysterical anxiety . Total understandable.

Thank you for the additional information about your son's treatment protocol. It sounds as if he's got the support he needs. I hope he continues to attend meetings, daily, if possible. Watching a child endure substance abuse has been the second most painful thing that's ever happened to me. Learning the cause of her pain was number one. So I'm glad your focus is primarily on your daughter.

I"m really glad to hear that your daughter's ambitions have not been derailed. More than that, I'm glad to know that she is receiving treatment for her PTSD.

The guilt and grief are familiar to us all. It takes a long time to accept that you played no part in your son's choices. Many, many here have suffered the additional trauma of mixed loyalties and/or a complete rift in their families, and an end to traditions that guided them through the years. In your situation, these are tragic consequences of your son's choices. You are missing the "old" son, and as a loving mom, your conflicted feelings are NORMAL. You are beginning to come to terms with a deeply painful reality. It's NORMAL, but it doesn't feel normal, and that increases your sense of isolation and despair. Yes, your world truly is upside down, and trying to turn it back over is a Herculean task.

MOST of all, I'm glad to hear that you're already in therapy. It's great that your therapist suggested seeking community online. It is indeed horribly difficult to know with whom and how to share this pain in person, and it's a good idea to be in touch with others who are already facing this complex tragedy -- one that's so poorly understood by those who have not faced it themselves. For this reason, I want to be sure that you know about, and take some time to page through, the following website: www.mosac.net.

You have ALL my support, and I am glad you're here.

There is a member here who's minor son was the offender on his sister who is also a minor.They are reunited now so it is possible.NO i don't believe you should abandon your son.But also dont flaunt your relationship In front of your daughter.in my opinion rehab should be mandatory,he has hit rock bottom and it should be reported.He needs to take responsibility and your daughter needs a voice.I also must warn you that more may come e out.Victins seldom tell the whole story at first.i don't mean to be all judgy but it sounds like you are in denial about his substance abuse.All addicts act remourseful when they are in trouble,but that passes and they go back.My daughter's offender was her cousin and his mother and I were best friends.When I TD her she was so supportive,offered to pay for therapy,made her son apologize,even worked with us to make a schedule so we didn't see them on holidays at my I laws.But after she refused to take him to therapy I cut ties.She was great at first then started saying g my daughter exaggerated and her son didn't need therapy.For the time being you may have to tell your son that his sister must come first.Report and get him into rehab.Also your daughter is a minor? If so the therapist must report,hell your daughter can report without you.

Absolutely agree that you must report. I waited nearly five years to report because I worried that it might lead to an addiction relapse in my daughter. That happened anyway. Control what you can -- it will help you heal to know that you've done right. Put the rest in the hands of investigators. I'm sorry to say, but they may have received other reports on your son and need corroboration to proceed with those cases. And if he's done this before, he can do it again. Whether you decide to proceed with a case or not, he needs to be on the authorities' radar.

And thanks, hopefulmama, for backing up my initial call for rehab for your son. Twelve days is not "treatment," but the beginning of treatment. He needs serious, long-term therapy and relearning to deal with his anger and sexuality issues. Without this kind of extended introspection, he is likely to relapse.

Good morning ladies . Thank you so much for your response.
We have reported both to the ministry and the RCMP.
No my son isn't or never has been on thier radar. We are in the process of letting my daughter decided whether to go through restorative justice or charge him . Most likely with indincent touching.
She reported with our help two days after the incident.
I absolutely think he needs to have a consequence for his actions.
This program he is on is what his Drs and addiction counselor as well as the social worker felt fits him best . They did not think a rehab was the right place and I could not afford a private one. He is employed full time . He would have had to quit his job to be eligible for a half way house. So this is what was set up for him . He is going to a young man's AA group and has a good support there.
I am a health care provider. I have been very active from the minute my daughter called me that night. To get them both the help they need .
It's my own feelings that are surprising and confusing . I feel very alone with this as my ex only makes things harder. And we have not told any other family.

You are way ahead of our suggestions. You've checked off the whole to-do list already. (And you have the advice of doctors and an addiction counselor. I hope they are correct. I'm curious about whether they are aware of his crime.)

Absolutely, we are here for you. It's natural that your emotions would be surprising and confusing. You're experiencing the (previously) unimaginable. There's no way to prepare for it.

I told my sisters shortly after my daughter's disclosure (she was raped and serially abused by an adult neighbor, so there was no family friction). However, I lived so far from my elderly mother that I simply could not bring myself to tell her long-distance about the sexual abuse and the addiction; I was afraid this news might literally kill her. I waited three long years, until I had moved closer to her and could talk with her at length and in person. On the phone I was cheerful and chatty, but the separation my facade created added a new grief and loneliness to my pain: I felt I had lost my mother as well as my sense of myself as a mother. Please work with your therapist to develop a possible plan for broaching this subject with family members you know will be receptive and keep your confidentiality. You deserve every bit of support you can get.

Great job! You really have everything in order.

Both my parents have passed away . The old passing wish that my mom was here has intensified with this as she was my rock and my best friend. I so wish she was here to help me navigate all of this.

And yes his Dr ( pyhcologist does know of his offense. I have a feeling that he had been molested at one point in his youth. He has said recently that I have know idea how much his dad has hurt him . Not directly but he let him be hurt.
I'm sure in the truth will come out as he works out what made him violate her a n the first place.

It's always the first thought when a relatively young person sexually abuses another: what happened to the abuser? I hope you are all able to get to the bottom of the source of this pain. And I'm so sorry you're missing your rock. She knows. She will still help you navigate this. Evidently, she's doing an awesome job so far. Hugs.

Amothertorn68,
(((((((((((big hugs)))))))))))))
Hello...I am the mother who had not only outside perpetrators but also my 14 year old cancer-patient oldest son molested his 8 year old sister. In truth, it was more a mutual interaction between them both although we know that the weight of the interaction was more my son's fault. We reported our son to both CPS & the police. No charges were pressed partly due to his sister's testimony alluding to it not being a forced thing (in her own non-coerced story that stayed consistent...actually this story was what scared us so much because it sounded like she was alluding to more males having done things with her before, & that ended up being true. Anyways, I wanted to share some quick answers with you & not overwhelm you with my VERY complicated story! ;)

So, yes, I'm here if you need to chat.

For my husband & I it took about 6 months-1 year before we got past the extreme anger (& thus verbal outbursts) we had towards our son for his stupidity. He wasn't acting out of drugs/alcohol but he was acting out of suicidal beliefs/YOLO thoughts because of his cancer prognosis. That did not excuse his behavior & he owned all his stupidity, submitting to whatever his sister needed to heal. Our emotions traveled the typical mourning process, ultimately landing on forgiveness & acceptance. We did end up finding out that he had been molested when he was only 8 years old, something that not only traumatized him for life but apparently triggered mental health illness (which he finally shared with us) & that he's been dealing with ever since & has not disappeared...he's on anti-depression meds & anti-anxiety meds now. He's still in voluntary therapy. He currently has a job, is attending college, is a great big brother & we are a united family for 2 years now.

My daughter felt very guilty for her part but also had extreme PTSD, mostly due to multiple other perpetrators. For a time, we didn't see her brother at all, with her. We DID have him move away for a year but had to fly him into town for treatment scans every few months...we used these times as opportunities to evaluate our daughter's wants in regards to him. Other than those trips, we spent about an hour on the phone with him on Sunday, unless a dr., school or therapist need arose. At first, we went to a restaurant as a family, those two sitting furthest away from each other. When he was in town, my husband stayed with him at a hotel, usually 2 weeks at a time. If hubby needed to come home, he'd sit in the car out of respect for not invading my daughter's "safe place" at home (which btw we worked VERY hard to retrieve because not only had her brother offended against her in our home, the perp family had in almost every area as well! We went through the house, changed all the rooms around, removed any triggers & began to rebuild happy, safe memories.) This helped her trust him more, seeing he cared that way (sometimes, he'd sit in the car for hours so hubby could play daddy to the rest of our kids.) One day SHE asked to let him come in the house & join a family game time. SHE asked to begin driving in the same car when she was ready (that took about a year.) SHE wanted to go pick him up at the airport when he came in for his last set of scans. Etc. My daughter was in therapy the whole time & still is, but not because of her brother anymore. She worked through her brother issues in about a year.

Long story short, my son needed another major surgery where he'd need intense caretaking so since CPS couldn't find a reason to NOT let him move back home, we pushed & said it would be our "test," since he was bed-ridden anyways. The transition worked wonderfully! We continued to apply our safety plan, which became commonplace. Once recovered, for a time, my husband took our son to work with him where he did his school. (I homeschooled all my kids through this whole mess!) Then, he was allowed (by us) to work at home. All therapists were fine with it...we had 5 at the time...our safety plan was written up by us & better than anything CPS could have thrown at us (THEY said he could stay in our home as long as one of us slept with him...THAT was a bit crazy with the PTSD my daughter was surviving at that time!), the police case had long been closed & ultimately, his sister wanted reunification & forgiveness.

I swear by EMDR, exposure therapy & cognitive behavioral therapy! We use lots of comfort items like fidgets, essential oils, breathing techniques, hand taps (an EMDR method), visualization, special therapy stuffed animals, parakeets & a dog. I also recommend approaching this situation from a spiritual aspect with pastoral counseling. We did this alongside traditional therapy & I'm so glad because while one healed the mind the other healed the soul.

I'm here if you need me. Not as often as I used to be but I'm here. Sorry you have to go through this!