Would your other son like a gun also to go hunting with older brother? Is there an actual place you could take him on the weekend to let him ride an atv?He can't take to any back roads to get to a place to ride? Is there anything else he would like to take up, fishing, bowling, weight training, darts,Paintball?
If worse comes to worse let him have the atv and take the time to spend so that he is safe..

I wouldn't get the 14 year old a gun. It's hard when there is such an age desparity, I have the same thing, and the younger one always wants what the older one is getting but it's really not fair to the older son who has patiently waited until he was old enough for certain things. Unless you have property I wouldn't get the ATV either as we have friends who have property so they have an ATV but even then the boy gets wild and decides to drive it through a neighborhood, which is illegal and he ended up getting into trouble with the cops. It's just too tempting for them I think not to drive this thing like a maniac either....well that's my friends' experience anyway.

Since ATVs are quite expensive and you don't think it would be used very often, could you suggest that the family or your son and his dad could go somewhere and rent ATVs? I know it is not the exact same, but maybe you could say, "I would like you to make a Christmas list of things you would like, I know you really want an ATV this year, but until you are a little older and more mature, we are afraid it wouldnt be safe. We could go as a family somewhere to rent them for a day and you still get to have fun riding on an ATV, but as far as us buying one right now, it is not possible."

I don't like guns and I would never buy one for a 14 year old. Especially since no one in the family will be going with him. It could be that the youngest is scared. I would be too.

As far as the ATV, it isn't that he isn't mature enough, it is that it is too expensive for how little he would be able to use it. I would explain that to him. Another option is to give him cash towards one. That way he can work to save the money and buy his own. After he realizes he needs to work at such an expensive gift, he might change his mind.

Thanks for the replies everyone. I would definitely not get a gun for my 14 yr old as he has anger issues and there are times he loses control and doesn't really know what he does. It doesn't happen nearly as much as it used to but it only takes one time. We have decided to get our oldest the gun with stipulations that it must be in a locked case and the bullets are locked in a different area and it is never to be loaded unless he is in a safe place where he can shoot it. We are not getting the ATV either, I do like the idea lsnider suggested about finding a place they can rent one and have a day of riding, I will definitely look into that today. In the meantime, he's accepted the fact that he won't get one for christmas and has asked for a go-cart, yeah, this is what I have to put up with so same fight all over. What is the diff between a go-cart and an ATV? He just doesn't get it. So if he doesn't come up with an idea for a gift, he is getting money and he won't have anything to open on christmas morning. I'm sick of this crap, but it is me and my husbands fault, we have tended to spoil them and now that they are teens there wants are very expensive and we just can no longer justify such purchases.

Unrelated kind of funny story: The 14 yr old got suspended for the rest of the day yesterday at lunch time for having his cell phone out and refusing to hand it over to the assistant principal. I had to leave work and go get him and bring him home. To me, this is not a punishment for someone that absolutely hates school. To make sure he suffered a consequence, I removed the wireless router from our home and took it to work with me so he could not play Xbox live, use his computer or ipod for communication and i temporarily inactivated his cell phone. I got home around 4:30, he's much calmer now and not throwing a fit and he comes to me and asks when he gets his phone and internet back. I tell him the next day (his punishment at home only lasts as long as the punishment at school) he just looked at me and rolled his eyes and said, "I'm bored, there's nothing to do!" In my mind I was laughing and thinking, 'welcome to being grounded' maybe now he'll make a connection with the bad deed and the consequence. I did suggest he do the dishes or vacuum the living room, he just stormed back into his room and slams the door. I didn't think that would appeal to him, but it doesn't hurt to try! :-)

Your story sounds much like mine several years ago and many heart breaks later. I only have one son and he had me right where he wanted me as well. Your boys have you where they want you and you seem to be playing right along, just like I used to do.
I was always afraid of hurting his feelings or not being sensitive enough to his issues that I walked on egg shells and often wanted to cave into his requests (demands) just to stop the drama.
All our family hunts and we have always had guns. Your older son needs to get into hunters ed if he has no experience with guns and needs to learn gun safety. Yor youngest needs to learn the value of a dollar and be happy to get whatever he gets. You said he has x-box and internet...kid has about all he wants and more.
Sorry for the bluntness but I see your son in how mine used to be. He told me one of his resentments was me not being tougher on him.
Good luck my dear I know you will get this all figured out...)

You are exactly right lindarob, I know we have made some mistakes. I totally relate to giving in to stop the drama. We are getting better at being more firm but we do still need to do a better job. My husband and I were talking about this the other day and we plan to sit the kids down and actually admit to being too lenient and gracious by giving in too much. We take full responsibility and I think it would be better for them to hear it from us now rather than wait till they are older and realize it like your son. I am sure they are going to be pissed, maybe not the oldest so much. He does plan to take a hunting safety class and the guys he will be going with all have their dads and ar experienced hunters so that makes me feel much better about him doing this.