I will be the first one to say I have no idea what the meaning of life is.

And I also don't know why in the hell we have to go through what we're going through.

I do know we have no control over what comes into our brain. I would never choose to think some of the awful things that intrude my thoughts. And you don't either.

I can sympathize. I get thoughts like that too. They're scary and I end up feeling sick and crazy. I hope you feel better soon.

i know how u feel and i really mean know. i have had violent graphic thoughts of stabbing my children for the past 3 yrs. my thoughts literally consumed my every waking moment i cried in the shower after my daughter was in bed praying for cancer and death if the thoughts could just stop. I don't know why we are so tormented when we are OBVIOUSLY wonderful good decent people maybe we werent in a past life here's hoping we can make the best of this one and have it better in the next, all the best holly

I have violent intrusive thoughts as well :( like what if I could stab my family? or what if I am asleep and I start sleep walking and lose control and stab my mother or father or sister? I wish these terrible thoughts would just go away!!!!!!!!!!!!

I don't know how to help you with this bc I haven't found any medication that will rid me of this. All I do is keep praying and Mother and Father God take the thoughts away. It is not permanent though.

Unfortunately OCD is not curable only treatable.

Stay strong!

Asics and others,

"Morbid thoughts" are one of the most common symptoms of OCD. The mother "Holli.." who wrote about thinking about harming her daughter is very common for females with OCD. I remember reading about a young woman who never had OCD until she gave birth. She then constantly fought horrific thoughts about harming/killing her kid. She was so upset and cried all the time. She finally saw a therapist who insisted she speak into a tape recorder about how she wanted to kill her child. Tried to get her to make it even worse than her thoughts. Then sent her home to listen to it over and over until her anxiety went down. It is called CBT/ERP or desensitizing one to these types of thoughts. It was very hard for the mother to make the tape but that is standard CBT for morbid thoughts.

I have had horrific thougts as well and made such a tape wishing terrible things on my family members, friends and even whole countries of people. The worse you can make it the better it will help you. Of course, most of us will need a trained therapist to push us and guide us thru it. I know I did. TRUST me, it helps.

So, ASICS, I would love to see you go to a BT and do this type of CBT making up a terrible story, as bad as possible, about your niece, where you torture and kill her. It sounds terrible but if you put it on tape with your own voice and listen to it again and again, your anxiety will diminish and these thoughts will decrease dramatically.

It is because you are ruled by fear/anxiety and the abnormal guilt that goes with it that even thinking these thoughts causes you such turmoil. A healthy person might have the same thought and just dismiss it or just not think twice about it. Also, we know that if any person tries to NOT think a thought, they will certainly think it.

You know you will not act on it, so f*** it. But, only until you get professional help, will you probably improve. Without a competent pro, these thoughts will probably persist. I got professional help and was able to make progress. Also reading about these techniques and about others going thru this same thing, helped me to improve.

You know you are not a bad person. You are overwhelmed with fear and guilt. Try an acute case of scrupe. The is guilt is beyond anything most could comprehend. I used to tell people is was like living with 100 prosecuting attorneys and 100 fire and brimstone preachers in your head, all day, every day. I never thought I could get better. It took many years, but I did.

Get help!! See a therapist. Try meds. Educate yourself on OCD (READ!). Keep reading and posting on this support group. You will see progress.

BTW, I keep seeing people on here asking the meaning of life. Probably the worst time to try to figure life out is when one has a severe psych disorder, is full of fear, depression and guilt. Not exactly the best time to come up with personal philosophies.

Wait until you get better to answer lifes big questions and you will have a 180 degree different view of yourself and life in general.

"Reno 911" huh? Whatever floats your boat. I am more of a Seinfeld guy myself.

I am a recovering Pure O person. I want to tell you a bit about me. I am currently 34 years old. I have been married for 16 years and have two sons aged 16 and 10.
I have had scary obsessive thoughts since I was a child =)
It began to bother me in a very bad way when I was 30.
My thoughts were around me harming my children. I had such graphic thoughts in my mind and I too prayed for cancer or death to come to me in a very quick way. The thoughts became too much for me.
I got help for what I was going through and I educated myself for 2 years, non stop, reading books, and any information I could get my hands on.

When we obsess about scary thoughts friends, it is beause we are trying to cover up something else that is bothering us.
I want for you to all please know this, if you fear your thoughts, you will NEVER follow through with them. It is when we find pleasure and excitement in the thoughts, then it is important that you seek counsel for that.
When we think of all of the murders in this world, not one of them was afraid of killing. It brought them happniess. This is a fact.
I have a few books I would like you to please try and read friends. These are books that have helped me =)

Title
Brain Lock: Free Yourself from Obsessive-Compulsive Behavior: A Four-Step Self-Treatment Method to to Change Your Brain Chemistry

Author
Jeffrey M. Schwartz, M.D.

Publisher & Copyright Date
HarperCollins; 1997

Covertype
Paperback

Pages
256 pages

Notes
This book offers a four-step program for overcoming OCD without the use of drugs.
*******************************************
Title
Everything in its Place: My Trials and Triumphs with Obsessive Compulsive Disorder

Author
Marc Summers, Eric Hollander

Publisher & Copyright Date
JP Tarcher; 1999

Covertype
Hardcover
******************************************
Title
Getting Control: Overcoming Your Obsessions and Compulsions

Author
Dr. Lee Baer

Publisher & Copyright Date
Plume; 1992

Covertype
Paperback

Notes
This book offers a practical, self-help guide to OCD sufferers and their families.
********************************************
Lee Baer, Ph.D. Getting Control: Overcoming Your Obsessions and Compulsions. New York: Plume, 1992. Pp. xiii, 234. $12.95 (pb.). ISBN 0-452-26889-3

Hi melmbrs,

I was not sure I should reply to your post because this is a support group, not a debate group. However, I disagreed with some of your opinions.

So, in the most respect way possible here are my opinions.

(1) I do not believe we OCDers have some deep underlying emotional problem or any psych problem that we are trying to cover up that is causing our disorder. I believe most of us were born with this disorder and that it comes out at different times for all of us. A cause is UNKNOWN at this time but I am sure it is bio-neurological. Serotonin? dopamine? other? who knows? Covering up? No way.

(2) There are very few pure "O" thinkers. It is rare. Your fear of harming your kids, as I have already written somewhere on this site, is a quite common OCD symptom. I bet you had what are called "mental compulsions" to counter these thoughts. That measn you would try to "unthink" them or think good thoughts. When you wrote that you prayed for "cancer or death" to come, that was a compulsion (aka a reaction to your OCD thoughts/obsessions). So, I doubt you were or are a pure "O" thinker. They are very hard to treat.

(3) I will admit I never read Jeffrey Schwartz' book, "Brain Lock". However, I did see him on many TV shows in the 90s promoting it and I thought his philosophies were absurd. His basic premise was that any OCDer could virtually think their way out of it. Absolutely absurd! If it was that easy, we would all be better in days, weeks or months and not need meds or BT/CBT.

Lastly, I am aware of Marc Summers. He used to be a TV host for kids shows. I saw him on TV a few times in the 90s talking about his OCD and I got the impression that his OCD was quite mild (not unlike Howie Mendell now). His co author, however, Eric Hollander, does have a good rep in OCD circles.

I also have Lee Baers book. Bought back in the early 90s. I did not read it all, but he had a chapter on Cingulotomies that was ridiculous. I am sure he would retract that chapter today. A bunch of Harvard shrinks did a 30 yr review of cingulotomies and said they were good. I read their research paper and thought they were nuts. They supposedly have changed their view on this procedure.

The best books I ever read about OCD were "Stop Obsessing!" by Dr. Edna Foa and Reid Wilson, "The boy who could not stop washing" by Dr. Judith Rappaport and articles by Dr. Fred Penzel of Huntington, NY. I think Dr. Penzel is probably the best OCD specialist in the country.

Now, I am sorry if any of this was harsh or judgemental. Obviously, I have strong feelings on this subject and felt the need to vent. I apologize if I offended you in anyway.

I am glad if "Brain Lock" and other books helped you. Great! We all have to find our own way out of this mesh. Whatever works. I just so strongly disagree with Schwartz' beliefs and the antiquated beleif that we OCDers have some underlying psych or emotional defect that causes the OCD. I reject that. Most OCD experts agree that psychotherapy, that is used to unlock deep emotional and psychological feelings, is a total waste of time in treating OCD. I went thru psychotherapy for about 10 years and it was useless. I am talked to and read about so many that had my experience.

So, good luck to you and I am happy for you that you are improved no matter how you got their. But, in my opinion, most OCDers will get little help from the likes of Schwartz. Especially if you are severe or extreme. Sub clinical? Mild? moderate? Maybe his strategies will help but not the worst cases.

BTW, I went to see shrinks at the OCD clinic at Mass general where Lee Baer used to work and saw shrinks at Mclean in Belmont, MA. I lived in the Boston area for 14 years.

Those intrusive thoughts are things that you would never do. In fact, they are exactly the opposite. During extreme mode of OCD or/and GAD, the things we despise, detest, etc. are the VERY things that pop in our heads...believe it or not. It's true.

I suffered with the very same intrusive thoughts my whole life...even through childhood. As a parent, I questioned whether or not I should even be allowed to be around my children. Prior to taking Lexapro, I would have graphic images of molestation when I would change my children's diapers. If I saw someone riding a bike on the side of the road while I was driving, I would envision hitting them by accident and seeing them dead in the ditch. I could then see the grief of their family at his funeral. These thoughts are extremely graphic and violent in nature but something that you would NEVER even fathom of doing! It is your brain processing a fight or flight mechinism and has nothing to do with what you actually do in real life.

It will make you question who you are and what you should be allowed to do, but don't let it. Talk to your psychiatrist and see if you can get the proper medication to help with the imbalance that is causing this. There will be tremendous relief for you and internal peace from that torture, I promise.

I'm here for you anytime. I do understand.

Hugs,
Kelley

Kellybean,

I could not agree more with your "fight or flight" insight about a mind full of fear. The weird thing is that after 35 years of this crap, I was just thinking about that yesterday or the day before. Why did it take me so long? I think it is something of a defensive mechanism/mental reaction to all our unrealisitic fears.

However, I still maintain, like on previous posts, that it is perfectly normal to occassionally wish something bad or think something bad on someone: I would call that anger, fear, envy, etc. and being a human being. So called healthy people accept it as normal.You would not believe the things people say about each other at work and in social circles in the NYC and Boston areas. We get caught up in it or obsessed with it and as someone wrote on here, the "snowball" effect takes place. Now, when I am feeling angry, frustrated, annoyed or jealous, I either think a so called "bad" thought and say something harsh and LET IT GO!!!(sometimes...other times I perform mental compulsions...HA...i.e. unthinking bad thoughts or thinking good ones to offset bad ones) I think it is healthy to just let the socalled bad thoughts go. It is normal and very human.

How can you go thru life never having negative thoughts or opinions about people?. My oil delivery guy of a few years ago told me he was GLAD his neighbor died in a car accident. He did not like him. How about that? Does not make him a bad person, only average.

I have thought, out of anger, that I should run over some lance armstrong wannabe riding his dumb bike up here in NH (they used to be EVERYwhere). Did I ever do it or come close? NO! And I do not care about those thoughts. Normal for a unhappy, anxiety ridden dpression fighting moron like me.

I just think we all need to get to a gray area and I believe more in BT/CBT than meds. But, once again, whatever works for you.

So, the horrific thoughts aside about your kids or other women or men with their "bad" thoughts about their kids (that is trying too hard and fearing so much that you might harm your kid....all false fears). It is a level of fear/conscientiousness that is unhealthy, painful andf not needed. It always comes down to irrational fear.

Love that "fedar or flight" line. I am going to copyright my third leg to that well worn phrase buy adding "FROZEN". There is a fight or flight reaction to potential fear but how about those who are FROZEN with fear. IT is real and does happen.

melmbrs,

Again, I wrote that reply to you late last night and I even thnought I should wait a day and think about posting it.

If, I was too intense, harsh, overly opinionated or rude, I apologize again. This anxiety has given me some very intense opinions when it comes to OCD and a few other subjects.

Best wishes,

Tom

Very true, ridethewave35. Stephen King summed it up best when I saw an interview with him. Someone had asked him how he wrote some of the graphic material in his books. He said, "you know how if someone were to hit your brand new car and not leave a note, you feel like you could literally kill them." Although you wouldn't, that feeling is completely natural.....rage. It's only when it dominates your life and incapacitates you from carrying on does it become the exception.

Kelly,

Agreed again. As we all know there is a BIG difference between being overwhelmed with nonstop fear and its tormenting thoughts and that very natural range of emotions. I just wanted to make it clear to some on here that have that timidity and oversensitivity that comes with OCD, that some thoughts of anger or so-called "bad" thoughts are very, very natural.

Tom (aka Ridethewave35-another dumb name one has to come up with when signing on to different websites. Hahahaha).