Dadda, your post reminded me of my first N encounter, many years ago. He was the psychological/physical abuser. He had just finished kicking in my apartment door, slamming me in the head with the phone and shoving me to the ground, and punching a hole in the drywall. When the police showed up, he INSISTED to them that I was crazy and that I had serious mental issues. He told them to go ask my next door neighbor, who would vouch for him. So, the cops went knocking on next door neighbors door (why, I have NO idea) I suppose because they were trying to give Mr. Abuser the benefit of the doubt even though all signs of mental instability and violence were very plainly in view. So, this is what Mr. Neighbor told the police....."she certainly has her fair share of troubles, but they were NOTHING until this man came along".....they took him to jail, I went to the court hearing, he got a slap on the wrist.

They will lie and make things up to save their sorry selves!!! In this case, his storytelling got him booked in jail for awhile and a domestic abuse charge.

Yes actually I have and to this day it is devastating when I recall it. I would love to forget that moment in time FOREVER. I am familiar somewhat with your story and I am so very sorry that your XN has been so unbearably cruel beyond belief to you and to your children.

With that said, I am not at all surprised at the stupid naive comments towards the lady in said article. Makes me think of the saying "CANT FIX STUPID". I know that is silly to say, but often we expect alot more out of the general public than we will ever see. And who is to say that some feel the same about our responses, comments, past conversations in life. There is only one judge.

With that said, I will share, with some bitter taste in my mouth and sadness in my heart about my experience that is similar.

I was working at the religious Baptist Care Center with the elderly. I loved those residents like my own parents, every single one of them. First time I had ever veered from the corporate world, the office life, traveling, suits, etc. Other than years ago doing retail and grocery management. Okay back to the extended care Baptist Home.

Loved each day of work and every minute of those men and women, even when they were mean, or when their diseases were getting the best of them, etc. Their safety and quality of care was very important to most of the "workers" there.

However, the higher ups, those types i had sat in many a meeting with years past in other industries/venues and gave presentations to, traveled with, suddenly, from the "workers" end with a heart and a concsious, I begain noting dates, times and awful things that were occurring. I was asked to be on the safety committee, but as I soon found out, I wasnt supposed to REALLY DO ANYTHING OR SAY ANYTHING, JUST ACT LIKE WE GAVE A HOOT.

Well I took it a step further and spoke to my boss. Normal chain of command. She was useless, cant put it any plainer.
So I went to her boss, the Adminstrator.
She said she would look into it.
Month or two went by, another disaster waiting to happen happened (resident in middle of highway on his rascal, no one aware he was even GONE) so I went to speak to the CEO.

He APPEARED to care. Really did. Even called me at home, I put him on speaker and I only had the N to listen, but i wanted someone, anyone to witness his phone calls kind words. Wish I would have recorded the creep.

Next day, I am called into the Adminstrators office. My boss is sitting there and she was a real live adult bully and if looks could kill, she was sure firing them my way.

After I heard the three of them babble about BS and have every excuse in the book that all my data was incorrect, the CEO proceeded to basically reem me. "You dont really like reporting to a boss that is younger than you, do you"?? to me....

R u kidding, could not be further from the truth. Useless as she was, I still respected her, followed all instruction and no matter if she makes it to 90 plus, I doubt age will assist her, but for her sake I hope it does!! Course I sat there and just let him speak, I thought what I just wrote, but sure didnt say it. I just said no her age has no bearing on any of this.

Then why didnt you allow HER to fix this situation and not come to the Admin and then to ME? R U Kidding, you were my best buddy on the damn phone!
But what I said was I am rather floored, you stated when you called me at my home last night you would do everything in your power to assure the safety of the residents and appreciated my boldness and ability to step forward and speak up.

Yeah right, so much for that.

Then the bomb dropped. He said you know, Sunny, I think you are what they call histronic!!

That pissed me off big time. I said are you kidding me? I do not want attention nor am I a drama queen, I simply want to assure these people that cannot take care of themselves are properly taken care of!!

Still bites me in the you know what, that histronic word. I really actually thought about long and hard, and he is waaayyy off base. But it still digs really deep. As we all know, words hurt!!!

After I left that place voluntarily I was told by a few employees long gone, how they had stepped up and spoke up to similar results.

Those poor folks dont have a chance.

So yes in answer Dadda, not only yes been thru similar but I am sure people actually "buy into" that a person is "forced or driven into an affair" (hogwash!). But I do know for certain that one can be driven to depression etc by abuse, or supressed feelings from abuse long ago, etc.

And how many times have we heard, well why didnt she JUST LEAVE? People can be so beat down and worn out and withered just by living with these vampires. And sadly, there are many ignorant people that just do not get it.

Hystronic. Yeah, sure i moved to middle of nowhere with a man I thought loved me and we had a future and am isolated, depressed often and almost penniless. Sure yeah, I am a drama queen.

I often think I would be just fine being pretty much alone, reaching out only on occassion for coffee with a friend, or a book club, or a movie night or whatever. Attention I dont need. Simple conversation and some sanity, now that sounds refreshing!!!

Kristin,I think our posts popped up together! My N is a retired cop. Just think what might have been the ending to your story had the police (no reason by the way for them to take a "neighbors" opinion ON ANYONES SANITY) went next door and the neighbor said instead, yeah, she is a wacko, man I tell you what that guy has been her knight in shining armor, she is one piece of work!!

What would of happened then? I shutter to think. I am thrilled to hear it turned out somewhat the way it should.

My retired N cop has been in some trouble and is now on the other side of the court system. He has had his hand slapped so many times now I cant even count them.

Omgosh Sunny, I shudder to think about that too. Like you, I simply cannot imagine why they would go to the neighbors to get a sanity check. I think because Mr. Abuser was insisting he did NOTHING wrong....forget the bruise under my eye, the phone ripped out of the wall, the hole in the drywall, the kicked in door....he was INSISTING that I was crazy and that he did nothing wrong....then again, this is how N's think, only of themselves, how perfect they are, how crazy everyone else is. Ugh.

And many police as you well know fit the bill. I didnt know that prior to getting involved in this mess. But I sure see it now in many of his fellow retirees. They can retire after 25 years on a full pension so they have alot of years left and the lack of empathy/compassion is overwhelming in most of them I have encountered. But not all, there are some exceptions as with anything.

Cops hate domestic calls anyway, those they get hurt on the most for every day calls and they have a ton of paperwork to fill out. Better to find an excuse to not arrrest the jerk, like knock on the next door neighbors door for a psychological evaluation. That is awful!!

The more I dig into my mess, the further back I see how I have caused alot of this by my own demons that I had not tackled and had drug along with me into my adult life and kept screwing up, bad choices, etc.
Reminded me of a man I was seeing years ago, it was Thanksgiving night. He came over to my house after his family gathering, drunk. He went into my bathroom and fell into the shower, grabbing the curtain and falling into the tub, cussing and screaming. The neighbors called the police thinking he was hurting me.

Geez..He had woken me from a deep sleep when he came bangin on door, so I am in a not so gorgeous terry cloth warm and comfy robe, not expecting visitors.

First his dumb butt, then three cop cars, thanks to neighbors.

Cops asked if they could search my home, sure, go ahead, nothing to hide. B hole had some pot and had it in a bowl they found in the bathroom or in the back of the house somewhere. Told me get dressed, YOU ARE GOING TO JAIL. ME.

i hate hate hate pot, I cannot stress that enough. My first husband smoked it alot and I watched a bright intelligent gifted well educated man turn into mush and it drove me bonkers!!! I said that is NOT MINE.

Well the B hole would not FESS UP, so off I go to jail, for SEVEN LONG HOURS. I couldnt sit on that awful cot thing, I was freezing and scared and crying my eyes out.

Months later and taking 3 plus days off work for court dates, he FINALLY ADMITTED IT WAS HIS. They then gave me back my $300 bail money and supposedly took it OFF my record. What hell for that ass.

And after all these years, I looked up on a terminal at the county courthouse and what is under my name??? A misdemeanor for that couple grams of pots YEARS ago still ON MY RECORD. It said it was dropped, but the record, the writing, the damn INJUSTICE still sits under my clean name.

Whew, funny how we all have such similar yet different stories/life experiences that intertwine and can help each other? Thank you for sharing.

Now off to bed and dreams.They have been tortureous lately the more I delve into things and attempt to restore slowly, move forward, yet havent left Ns roof yet. Hugs!!!

Wow. That IS a good point, Sunny; I am GLAD the neighbor spoke up for you, Kirstin and he got at least a part of what he deserved and on the legal radar, too. But the "neighbor" part does make me chuckle, as my "neighbor" for way too long, the MIL. That's what got me ... he comes home Friday night, 15 years past, with divorce papers all filled out. I stick up for his mother when he's reaming about something (she was over that evening) and then we were arguing ... I want to know about the divorce, what is this?! So he (finally) gets up and goes into our children's room and gets in bed with them!! From out of nowhere, I yell at him not to molest them. That was when he picked me up and tried to shove me out of the house. Police came, he told them I was psycho. I was in shock, didn't say much. I looked for his divorce papers but for some reason he had them hidden. Dispatcher HEARD him yelling, but by the end, I was "the offender". He was sent down to momma's with the children. I only found out for sure I was "offender" when I was looking at the papers recently, but I sort of surmised by what occurred.

I'm glad you ended up alright, too, Kirstin. And I like how SOME people at least, do make the connection ... that you were fine until "Mr. Wrong". I did see some comments like that, but the "looney toons" definitely outnumbered.

Sunnygal, that really sucks! I too used to believe in the "mission statement" (rah rah). The "truth" of the "caring professions" is something it seems is learned by going into said field. Even religion, often "the same". Maybe some of these experiences are meant to teach us and toughen us, because I had one supervisor when I worked in the group homes who stood up for me when I got reported after being put into an impossible situation. I was the only staff person for 8 people and had to run several of them somewhere in the van. Another person was scheduled to get there at noon and a client was supposed to get home from work about then. The staff person got there, the client was waiting, couldn't get in the house. For like 5 minutes. So I got reported. I asked the supervisor (these clients were "higher functioning") WHY they can't have a key to their own house? (I just wondered.) Bless that woman, she went to bat on that and the policy was changed; the clients had keys and the report was dismissed.

Sometimes, I dread the thought of getting involved in work again, down the road, that will be so "political" and with so many booby traps and hidden agendas. What was done to you sucks and I have met plenty of those two faced "people". I'm just glad you keep your heart and don't let it get hard and nasty, which they obviously did long ago. Those kind, like Ns will throw people to the wolves or street to save their own sorry selves!!

"The more I dig into my mess, the further back I see how I have caused alot of this by my own demons that I had not tackled and had drug along with me into my adult life and kept screwing up, bad choices, etc."

Boy can I relate to this Sunny! My abusive upbringing invited a lot of abusive men into my life....back then (we're talking 20+ years ago) my life was all about drama and the men that came with it. Even though I had issues, I still knew the difference between abusive and kind men, men selling pot out of my apartment, and men NOT selling pot out of my apartment. I made some horrible choices throughout my years.....thank the heaven's you and I have lived through it and can still wake up to sunshine in the morning. All of us for that matter! I'm sorry you have that spot on your 'record'....that does suck, there should be a law about that, it's just not fair.

Kirstin

My wife's ex...the Narcissist Pharmacist...did the same things...transferrance and avoidance (the key points of spin)...and worked my wife up to a frenzy...so much that she had a bad episode of cutting and I had to have her hospitalized until they could get her stable.

That was in the early days. Always a long story. Not so ironically, when she refused to go back to him...he ended up in Rehab and served 5 years probation on his Pharmacy license. He had seizures during Rehab and his hateful and abusive family wanted her to "come back home and run this business". He owns a Pharmacy in a small town.

The Narcissistic pathology runs throughout his family. I found out, a couple of years ago, from an inside source that my wife's bras and other things were still hanging on the drying rack from the night she left him...some 15 years ago. Tell me that this is not one sick pup...

Tigertales, that last part about the clothes hanging reminds me when I came home from the last hospital trip. I used to sit in the rocking chair and I'd be able to see the kitchen, as it's like a sitting area for guests and such. My head was totally in some sort of dissociated state. I swear, for the first few weeks, I still thought maybe I was hallucinating "or something" because I certainly wasn't cleaning or anything ... everything seemed to stay the same, except for new bananas. I'd see a truck like his brother's across the way and figured his relatives were bringing the bananas in to play mind games with me ... sort of make the scene more "real". Pretty eerie when I think back to it, but you know it was like nobody was there, when I was gone, and even when I came back, unless I was doing stuff. Hope never to go there again.

I think, in the minds of some Narcissists...if they can call some sort of "time out" in the game of life, they can somehow push off the fact that they've lost something or someone.

My wife left this creep for six months and worked in another nearby town. She decided, when her short term lease was up, she decided to "go home" and give it another try. He beat the hell out of her and while she was lying on the floor recuperating, he got on the phone to his mother and said, "You'll never guess who came crawling back".

His mother is in her early 80's...smokes two packs of cigarettes a day, fixes barbed wire fences on the farm, gathers up cattle and takes them to auction. She's tough and if old man death is going to get her; death is going to have to sneak up to keep from being avoided. It's amazing what you can accomplish in life if you just wall off any conscience...or, in her case...if you justify your behaviors. Everybody in the "family" bows and scrapes to this old woman. She breathed cigarette smell over my shoulder at a court appearance and I was about to wretch. Before I left the court, she started pursuing me...said she had something she wanted to say...I just walked around into the Baliff's Office and asked for refuge. They offered me a doughnut...seriously. No, seriously...

These behaviors are learned...and coerced into children.

In his mind, as long as those items are still on the drying rack...then she's not fully left him.

People looking from the outside in will most likely not know the details as those who have done the intimate dance with the Narcissist.

It's weird. He wrote a love letter about 3 months after we first divorced asking if we could "start anew". I said NO. The school principal balked at sending their report card (I had to provide SASEs). He wrote little notes about how we needed to "be together" for our children's benefit. Fine, go give him some man lessons, please. I still have the letter I wrote to my attorney when he was constantly taking me to Court (but finally, losing) that I shouldn't have to entertain the thought of getting back with him to put an end to the Court circus and Order violations (he shouldn't have gotten away with it all the time, either ... another response I hate). But he had started that up again

I guess one reason I have a "problem" with people's inane responses is with all the misdiagnoses and labels I got, anyone running into an early chart would think there was no hope ... and knowing I can't be all of them, at least not at a clinically significant level ... but I started substitute teaching as a way to build my confidence and comfort level around people again, once I was doing a lot better. There was a substitute who did something ... I can't remember what exactly, but it was "stupid" rather than harmful ... there was a big to-do over it and it came out that she suffered from "depression".

People get so "weird" about people with a diagnosis and they don't seem to differentiate well. I certainly wouldn't want to have to go into a long, autobiographical recitation on how I acquired my "injury" ... or that there may always be at least slight residual effects, but an excellent prognosis for recovery. You read news stories, a lot of people just want all the "crazy people" locked away where they can't get a gun and start making mayhem. That sometimes makes me feel ill at ease around people. I've read enough comments at the end of news stories to know the majority intelligentsia aren't.

Personally, I am of the belief that suffering something like depression gives one another perspective and experience in life.

It's not all bad because, with enough time, we will all suffer from depression, diabetes and the like. There are so many common ailments and it's just all a matter of time, really.

I work with four young people, all under the age of 31, and none of them have any depth that I've seen. I say that the unhurt are the untouched. I was reading a story, this morning, of a former State of Virginia executioner that put away 62 people with the death penalty in his state. Then, in 1999, he ended up on the wrong end of the system and saw how a black man could end up "under the train" so to speak.

He had often wondered if he had extinguished an innocent man and suffering raised his awareness of the human condition. He began to understand the death of the innocent and his faith taught him that he was wrong. Today, he is the biggest opponent of the death penalty. In my state of Mississippi, the former Warden of the State Prison at Parchman changed his tune as well...having executed even more men than the gentleman I just mentioned.

I started Suicide and Crisis Intervention work about six years ago, part time. I am perfectly at home speaking with people with mental illnesses. I have depression and PTSD myself and, frankly, I like talking to people who've had all their defenses stripped away. I'm working hard to strip away my own. I hope to get through Nursing School and go on to work in a Psychiatric ER locally.

When I look at "crazy people", I see a tremendous opportunity to connect. If just one will take a stand with a mentally ill person, others will follow. But, people push away and fear what they don't understand...or, certainly, they push away what they fear and may already suffer and repress.

I am thankful for my suffering.

I'm in elite company.

Sunny, I agree with this so much:

And how many times have we heard, well why didnt she JUST LEAVE? People can be so beat down and worn out and withered just by living with these vampires. And sadly, there are many ignorant people that just do not get it.

Hystronic. Yeah, sure i moved to middle of nowhere with a man I thought loved me and we had a future and am isolated, depressed often and almost penniless. Sure yeah, I am a drama queen.

I often think I would be just fine being pretty much alone, reaching out only on occassion for coffee with a friend, or a book club, or a movie night or whatever. Attention I dont need. Simple conversation and some sanity, now that sounds refreshing!!!

The friend who is living with me now keeps trying to get my butt out fo rthe house. I have a few friends, most with families and evening commitments. Not really wanting to eet someone, happy to just be me for a while...I love the idea of simple conversation and sanity..but she just says it is because I WAS married that I don't feel the need. She has never, but has kids also... My NH's GF has never either, is that why she is so trying...I am tired of trying.. tried for 17 yrs.. let these other women woth more energy try for the next.. is it worth it to try again?