sooooo sorry about what you are going through. It just goes back to them wanting to revenge. It is ironic how in other discussions we talk about how they think we are nothing without them....and .... then you realize it is the inverse. The fact that they attack sooooo cruelly and are so vindictive just points to the contrary.... they are nothing without us....in a very sick way. that is why mine...after I threw him out and (because I was so ignorant at the time of Ns) actually wanted to continue as friends in spite of the fact that he was with another. he did not want to be with me....I threw him out....and then it was my fault....so he had to do everything possible to get even with me. Not as bad as what you are going through.

i guess yours is seeing that little by little he has not control over you and that is really affecting his own self, therefore the obsession with you. Hold on tight....you have gone a long ways....

OMG what do these people need to do to get noticed as the crazy ones by the court system.

Dadda, I am so sorry that he is still at it. and what else I cannot believe is that the new women are clueless?? Do they not care, do they not even wonder if every thing that is being told them is true. Do they really think that we are really the bad guys in this situation.

How mush do we really have to put up with.

I will probably be absent from the site for the next week as I am lucky to have way to much family close enough to want to keep me 'happy' through the holiday. So many cheering me on for getting rid of the N...

I wish you the ability to find peace through the holiday. and I will think of you all.

The "other woman" is as bad as he is ... she got a restraining order against ME, with lies ... asked for a hearing and she didn't show ... she'd gotten continuance the night before and I wasn't informed. Stupid me, asked to speak with judge, who ended up yelling at me. For some reason, he thought she and I was co-workers fighting over husband. They won't even let you clarify their errors, how can you expect "justice"?! But HER restraining order was merely to keep me from speaking with her husband ... hahaha. Ex has threatened me several times as her husband would get angry and he thought I had something to do with it. Laughed and told him no, people are just catching onto the liars faster. They were also trying to get her husband arrested for domestic violence, supposedly, too. I have to laugh, thinking of him as some kind of "advocate for the downtrodden". Sort of confirms what he was doing by throwing me in the mental wards, back when, though.

They are getting divorced now. I really don't want to know the outcome, but I tell you, THEY truly deserve each other, so hopefully, that will be two superNs that won't be screwing over some poor unsuspecting halfway or more normal people!

Afanador, I know he has a "status" thing. He sent pix of her to all his friends with the caption "my hot new chic". He is enraged that 1) I didn't obey him 2) He wasn't able to use his former tactics successfully and 3) I have been "winning" at all ... he IS determined that I won't leave with anything.

Our younger daughter is a lot like me, in terms of "naturally" speaking her mind. She's said some pretty hot things to her father. In fact, I'd even guess that's why SHE was used to write the letters to the Court. Don't know whether he used some coercion, intimidation or emotional appeal, but it's become obvious that yes, he will break people who defy him, if he can. He doesn't CARE about either daughter. I hope they NEVER end up with anything resembling him.

I'm trying to think where I could find someone who REALLY knows law. I was reading an article by an attorney who had a couple similar to us and he was talking about how he had to research, as they had married and divorced once already. I'm thinking a lot of my "problem" is the complexities, which introduces factors that aren't usually dealt with. And how to pay; I think IF I could find someone, because of factors of fraud and tollings on statutes of limitations and such, just to get consultation. I found some irregularities in some previous filings and SOMEBODY played some games when I tried to get that protective order in 2003; it becomes obvious when you compare the Court notes and such. I started noticing because when I started going through paperwork, I looked at the 1st complaint filed by his attorney; it said I wasn't allowing HIM visitation and within "the past six months" I hadn't allowed his communication when I had the children. So technically, yes, two weeks of refusing to hand the phone over when he was calling, yelling and screaming, I guess "within six months" is still "truthful". So WHY was this filed when I had the children ONLY two weeks and visitation is "every OTHER weekend"? Oh, because someone knew I'd filed for a protective order, the petition was sent back to the originating Court and provided time for them to forestall me by filing contempt. It also prevented me from speaking in my own defense. I do believe that interference with "due process" is a civil rights violation. Maybe I need to quit messing with Court and try calling Geraldo or someone LOL. And maybe I will become a detective sometime. Sometimes it seems my mind is somewhat sharp, when I actually pay attention ... and I want my helicopter, too! Gads, what a giant disaster.

Livelife: travel safely and have a good holiday.

Do the lawyers even get that he is an N or has a PD? They must see this often enough. I don't know how you do it all. I am glad you have a recording and that your one daughter has seen it too. I have a hard time following the particulars as I've never been through a divorce myself, but just remember everything's impermanent and some day this will be out of your hair, along with him.

His lawyer wouldn't care if he was Charlie Manson, I dare say. I'm thinking my attorney thought "there's nothing there" PLUS the lack of assets. I feel so tired and hard to push myself right now. Sent copy of recording to prosecutor's office, where I'd been told that the officer didn't report it as "anything serious" or something like that. Luckily, although who knows that I can get anything done (?) I have recording of me, crying my eyes out for approximately 15 minutes following the incident and bursting into tears, unable to find my copy of Court papers, etc because I was so shaken up. So if the officer reported something else, what? Just another chase after false hope?

I've found evidence that the Sheriff's office forestalled my attempt to get a previous protective order (when he was refusing visitation, but when I WOULD exercise it, he would yell, scream and threaten). It took 17 days for them to get it back to the Court I started it in and for it to go out again, with a MAP I had to draw on it since they "couldn't find the residence" (hogwash - they haven't had a problem before OR since!).

I am going to provide the recording of the reporting part to either the victim's advocate or prosecutor or both. I'm tired of making the reports and being forestalled by inept or corrupt officials. And I'm very tired of trying to be responsible and amicable in dealing with him, and he just turns and waps me.

I do have a recording where he says he's not going to make the payments ... the "judge can go F*** himself. He can come look for me." Wish I could play that in Court.

Yesterday, I ended up in a ditch from the roads being snow-covered and slick. I didn't feel "as bad" when one of the county snowplows went off right behind me, on the opposite ditch . And fortunately, I ended up getting towed out by a friendly driver who couldn't get through the mess our vehicles made (I kept thinking "tow truck = $70"). But a two hour job turned into a five hour disaster of trying to keep from getting stuck again.

Today, I went to put gas in the car and my debit card was rejected. I came back home and found I had just overdrawn, so transferred all but $3 from savings to checking, giving me about a $100 cushion til more money. I keep asking why I keep trying. But I also know if I could get past this "hellacious hump", I could do it. Nothing like $450/month attorney and counseling fees for a period of two years to screw up the most careful budget ... and I didn't "want" an attorney, I have just had too many dealings with him to go unprotected. All I wanted was six months, when he filed, to save some money and pay down some bills. I would have gladly have foregone my equity, etc 'cause I know better. So I am supposed to keep going ... I cried, all the way home and for a while after leaving the gas station. I feel like I should have just quit paying bills when he filed ... there seems to be no point in being responsible, when faced with an addict determined to destroy. And the laws don't do much to stop them, the mayhem or "reverse the charges" when reasonable and responsible protests are raised.

I don't really want to die, but I tell you I don't know how long I can keep waking up to a nightmare I didn't create and because of having children, have been unable to just leave (and after divorce, I was tempted to just "disappear" and try to explain it to our children ... later.). I feel like an idiot and there doesn't seem to be ANY agency or ANYTHING/ONE out there that really helps. I applied to some program to see if I could at least get some assistance for car repairs I can't do, so I won't lose my job, but after getting estimate, going through the whole app and letter process, they told me "no funds". I seriously feel like "no point" in anything. Although I'm equally certain that somewhere out there, some form of help exists. I've gotten burned out researching and communicating, getting blown off or told no. It's humiliating in a way to begin with. Need a vacation from all this ...

I saw he filed a motion the same day I did; must have been earlier as I sat in the Courthouse working on mine for about an hour an a half. They rejected his. Mine is not even showing up, so I don't know what's going on with it. And my attorney STILL has not withdrawn, although I sent her an e-mail telling her I filed my (pro se) motion.

I haven't been feeling very good and it smells like cat pee in the closet ... I am humiliated that a realtor will be in here in a few days and thinking this is how I "live". Maybe I can just get hit by a truck before ... sorry, not meaning to sound so gloomy, just tired. On a bright note, the Senate (state) legislator's assistant called back and although she doesn't know of any "help" she is probably the first person to actually have the character to call back. I finally, a couple weeks ago, wrote the reporter back and never an answer. So in a way, I do give up. I see stories in the news all the time of people getting help, sometimes even when they are the author of their own misfortune. There are also a lot of farmers around here who have new irrigation things as a result of government help ... even a low interest loan would help, because the interest rates on many of my cards went up in October. But this is not a "wide spread" or common disaster, so there appears to be no help. I should have just left like he demanded. Maybe things would have worked out better ...

Oh, Dadda,

IT must be extremely frustrating to go around in circies for so long . . . . my heart goes out to you. Maybe it is time to just let go . . . . . and let Karma find the justice for you that the Courts can not. There is no shame in deciding to just let it all go . . . . noone is expected to keep fighting on and on and on with little or no result. '

You only live once . . . . maybe it is time to just start over, broke and lonely but with your dignity in tact. All of us here have nothing but deep respect for you and your efforts . . . . Maybe it is time to call it a day and learn to smell the roses again.

Personally, I would reather live in my car or go to a women's shelter than continue hitting my head agains a brick wall year after year . . . .only you can decide what is best for you. Whatever you decide to do . . . . i truly wish this next year is the beginning of a new life for you . . . . a peaceful one that brings you joy.

Baby steps, my friend, focing forward . . . . . let the diappointments, anger, injustice of it all stay in the past. Seriously consider closing the door to the past and moving toward the sunlight.

We are here to help you . . . . Multiple Hugs and Sincere Wishes for a Brighter Future.

There are predators in nature...and with the human species, there is little difference...other than the fact that the predation takes on another form.

Just remember, you cannot kill a Narcissist without becoming one yourself. You can't kill them, but you can make them irrelevant, eventually.

Tigertales, what you are saying is so true, I believe. I've caught myself in the grip of hate, was going through it "big time" back in probably '04, as he was taking me to Court again to limit me seeing the children. Costing me more that I didn't have ... but it was horrible because I'd get this really nasty and lasting pain in my chest with the hate. It would go for days if I didn't find some ways to calm it down. Plus, I have become more convinced than ever that we are changed, sometimes without our conscious knowledge, by the choices we make, particularly if we choose evil and more so, I suppose when evil is given back for kindness. Just sort of hard getting through the period where the consequences of the evil is in the "ascendancy". Doesn't really matter what job I could get; you can't earn as fast as someone can "spend" in destruction in the same period of time. And since they (fore)see no consequences to themselves, there is no bridle to the level of unthinking predatory acts. I learned some of that the first go round. But I came back thinking that there was probably confusion, rather than malice. Some normalcy rather than deep seated and hidden addiction and a family as sick (evil?) as the one that spawned him. Good ultimately conquers evil. I apparently just have one of those lives where it won't be apparent in this one.

Quepasa, while I hear what you are saying, having lived at the shelter and in my car, I can assure you I will not be going anywhere fast from either of those venues. Honestly, if I were to not wake up tomorrow, that would be fine. Had I known how things would end up, I'd have just quit paying my bills two years ago and have a nice amount stashed. Instead, I stupidly thought ... well, it doesn't matter what I thought, because I am wrong.

I did however learn that, due to the gambling, I could have applied to be his representative payee while we were married (even while separated) and that might have at least helped to get our daughters' money where it belonged - away from him. And maybe it would have led to some different results. Oh, well. Too late now. I guess I can also garnish his Social Security toward the judgment and get a lien applied to IRS refund, etc ... just more paperwork to wade through and I am sorry, I am sick of working for nothing or worse, working and owing ... and even bed and board uncertain.

Realtor is due in the morning and it is humiliating. Despite the good appraisal, the house is a disaster. Pee stains in the carpet ... and the attorney was saying, sure just "get rid of" the animals ... now I am sure I don't need to tell you all how that will be used, and please, don't lecture me because I can take very little at the moment. So it smells like a zoo, I have leak under kitchen sink and up above that hopefully just need taped. One shower that I replaced the guts of only two years ago ... it started leaking again and has been dismantled now for a year. It took me and my daughter's boyfriend THREE hours to chunk out the bad one ... when I asked husband to give the young man some money for helping ... never mind. Our shower needs taping, too. The dog I asked my daughter NOT to get tore apart the screen in the living room as a puppy; one of many I had replaced when I moved back. There are chunks taken out of two or three doors by his old dog (no longer here) that I have filled but need to finish sand and stain. And the house has leveling jacks; they have needed adjusting and I haven't found any info about how to do that. Some of the doors won't close and the middle wall is visibly separating in one spot. So... I have a lot to do.

When all this started, I was working on it all to keep my spirits up, for one. Now, if the house doesn't sell for "enough", I won't even get the same amount of "personal property" as him and I will have 0 to leave with. Right now, I have $3 in savings and $50 in checking. I will be okay; I get paid Friday. As long as my car will keep going at least. Just sort of hard to believe. I wouldn't doubt that as soon as everything is over, he finally keels over from another heart attack or something. But of course, he will keep on as long as he is able to.

I filed my motion and have heard nothing ... it is not even showing in the Court notes. He also filed a motion the same day; his was dismissed. I am wondering if the clerk threw it away? Or what? So I have to find out about that ... whoopee. Sent the prosecutor the recording of the incident, but it was too close to the deadline (thank you, all you folks over there giving me double talk and run around) and apparently, the officer made a report TOTALLY different than what happened. That's what I was told and why I sent the recording. So again, he is not to be held accountable and has carte blanc, courtesy of law enforcement here, to do whatever.

Someday things will be better. Today is not that day. And frankly, I am tired from trying and getting kicked down no matter what. Don't listen to me though, I am emotionally, spiritually, physically and financially exhausted at the moment. I need a good rest and a reason to hope, because I really can't take all this doing, doing and more doing and being farther behind and more behind the 8 ball than ever. It's like the divorce decree was a sentence of cruel punishment: "you will remain a hostage until you spruce up the house enough that someone is willing to pay enough to set you free." Meantime, he will again be trying to throw me out or make me pay. And I don't even WANT to be HERE ... but my needs and wants haven't exactly been the focus anytime ... I guarantee, though, if he throws me out, the house will never sell. That much I do know.

Even the banks understand this.

In an adjacent neighborhood, there is a couple that is totally upside down in their mortgage. They, in fact, have two mortgages on the property and it's a "short sell" by the bank.

For now, the family is paying the interest on the mortgage each month. The bank is letting them live there until the short sell is accomplished. The reason? Because people need somewhere to live and, if they live there, then the utilities/heat/gas/whatever will be maintained and the property will be at least partially protected by the very fact of them being there.

Life gets use where we are through a long series of choices...or non-choices...which is a choice in and of itself.

You've been ravaged. It's apparent. Sometimes you've got to lose to win. There is no limit to the cruelty of some people. But, hell, once they've taken everything from you...can they really hurt you any longer?

Tigertales: I just posted this to my FB page. One problem about the era we live in is that there is a great deal of information available, to both regular "intelligent" people as well as those we have looked to, maybe more in past, as "authorities" and "experts". I have called nearly EVERY place I can think of. I don't do drugs, I don't gamble and I don't go to bars, etc. If you put me under the microscope, or even a magnifying glass, though, I'm not "perfect". But WHY should my life be destroyed/damaged, or my children's, when the association, for example between NPD and gambling is there in the literature? IT IS KNOWN! If I take my car out and run people down, I am held responsible. The *** government is basically allowing people's money to be laundered into gambling by not allowing theft like marital dissipation to be called a crime and traced back to the root source: state sponsored gambling, for the most part. Why? The states have found a beautiful source of revenue and the lone voices crying in the wilderness are NOT likely to get any real, or especially, considered attention. But if he did ONE HIT of meth, with anyone's money, CPS and the whole SWAT team would be all over like ugly on it!


"Seems to me there's no difference stealing from your family and spending the loot in casinos/lottery and robbing a liquor store to score a high ... except that in the first instance, the state will not admit to a "crime" or a problem ....

Fiscal year 2007: Indiana collected $216 MILLION in gambling revenues.

Fiscal year 2009: Indiana SPENT $36.19 on each "problem gambler".

If it was METH, my husband would have been SHUT DOWN long ago, no ifs, ands or buts about it. So thanks, Indiana ... my children and I thank you for doing ABSOLUTELY NOTHING when problem gambling AND ITS EFFECTS ARE KNOWN. AND TREATABLE. But we should NOT be facing poverty and bankruptcy so YOU legislators, et al can roll in the clover that was truly not legitimately earned or received!!!!

Indiana and EVERY state that does not have provisions to protect family assets from problem gambling is STEALING from its citizens!"

And yes, the banks DO understand. For some time, I have wondered that we, as a nation, are so stupid as to pay three times the cost of a house in order to own it (that's an average). I wonder at a lot of the things we do. And I guess that is what makes someone like me the angriest, because through a lot of hard work, saving and scrimping and bargain hunting, I was able to get us to a good place and was working on getting back there.

All he has to do is say "she wants to go home" and I can be locked up ... I can show the bank statements, several years worth, that SHOW he is out of his mind (or stealing us blind) and I have to pay thousands to protect myself from the lunatic ... the system IS as screwed up as NPD and that is all I can say on that ... the banks foreclosed on record numbers of homes and many of those were on people who truly thought they could afford and who also counted on hard work and the economy not tanking (as in getting raises, etc) ... not in putting gas on their credit cards when prices were high ... and then losing their jobs, etc. The banks and businesses knew ... and poise themselves before major elections ... you can only take so much before you get revolt. And it won't happen in the middle class first.

I was watching "Intervention" a couple of weeks back and one of the counselors (Jeff, I think) made a statement that I think is very true:

He said, "An addict cannot survive without a network behind them. The habit is just too expensive to maintain on a single source of income or help...it takes currency of a lot of different forms, from a lot of different places to keep going...else it would starve out". (Parapharased)

Likewise it is with the drug of money.

The Roman Empire fell from the inside. What makes us any different? In my opinion, the poor economy and the debt is merely the cost of war...domestic and foreign...right or wrong. A wartime economy is never a good economy.

The bill is due and the collectors are waiting.

With your ex...he could never have had the gambling addiction without a host of support...support gotten through every means possible.

If it were not gambling, it could have been a host of other addictions.

Here, in Mississippi, the finest roads out of Memphis lead to Robinsonville/Casino Center. The rest of our roads in this state?? Nope...except down along the Coast...where there are more Casinos.