I was so hurt by my family last year and I just let go and didn't reach out anymore and eventually they reached out to me. So that can work as well. Just let go and work on your own life and let whatever powers that be sort the rest of it out for you. We tend to take on so much and it is not always all on us, as you and I both know. I have often felt soothed in the most unexpected ways by the kindness of strangers and I try to remember we are all one family of human beings really and family can mean a lot more than closer biological ties. You have family with us here, I believe.

Thank you Redfern! And I am glad you are back, I mean in a good way, although I know we'd prefer not to maybe be exactly where we are. But hard or not, we are farther along?! And yes, sometimes I have had to do that too; I remember you mentioning some of the things going on there. And hoping some of those are better or not at least affecting you as much. I have written e-mail, to be sure on daughters' and own behalves ... if you could hear what they have had to hear (and yeah, unfortunately I know plenty know too well) it tears me up that it is so hard to do anything unless you beg plead, learn latin and law and run across some very decent and caring people. But at least request for appeal and clarification with supporting evidence and request for motion is in and awaiting answer. Now I only hope to have time to get something done with the day yeah took all day. Off to work. Catch up soon. Hugs and hoping ...

dadda, I'm so sorry for your pain. I'm thinking of you and sending you hugs. Daughters are not easy (I have 3). Give it and yourself some time. Take good care of yourself. Sometimes things have to go to all out hell before they get better. A new year is coming. I hope it will be yours! Hugs!!

Jmandy, thank you too and I have heard daughters are "harder" as teens, but somehow, not sure if I believe that ... never if things are as they should be! (smile).

Today after I left, I kept thinking about Tom Robinson in "To Kill a Mockingbird" and I realized that like Tom, I am sick of "white man's chances". I am also sick of being "strong". I never volunteered or signed up for that or agreed to it. The "system" is either going to have to kill me or start making things right, at least for my girls. I am sick of listening to recordings with him screaming, all offended for being called "redneck" and he can't figure it out? Smashing a daughter's brand new phone because she has a tantrum? And on and on ... and now, the icing on the cake ... to turn them into phony little liars, and damn the cost to them??? And they don't want to EVER actually do a real investigation?? 15 years ... my daughters are 19 and 20 and 15 years ... and I believed SOMEONE CARED (don't get me wrong - I have been shown ample care by "real people"). But other people who are "mandatory reporters" no, they don't want to get involved. Everyone wants to decide quickly, too little info and just create categories ... b*tch about being overworked ... but how can you be "overworked" if kids die because you "interview" in front of the alleged abuser? And other kids suffer "soul murder" because one parent abuses and since the other APPEARS to do nothing (legally regulated hostage), they DO end up believing nobody cares?

I was listening to Dr. Laura the other week. I don't agree with everything she says, but some stuff is really right on ... and she doesn't want to hear the whole nine yards, a lot of time. ID the problem. But she was talking with a woman who I totally related to in so many ways. She was married, but very used to taking care of herself and didn't really trust that her husband was or "would be" there for her, in hard times I guess. So she put a lot of stock in her ability to do and to perform, speaking of work. Well, when the economy got really bad, she had lost her job; couldn't find anything and started having panic attacks and was hospitalized at some point; she had a breakdown. She said that her faith and such had helped her get off the medications fairly quickly (way ahead of schedule) and she even thought the experience was "good" in some way. And apparently, her husband stuck through it all with her (cool!). Her problem was her mother and I forget the exact details, but Dr. Laura finally just told it to her straight, your mother is a SICK (?? think that was the term) and you don't want to be leaving your child there with her anymore. The mother had never formed a loving bond with her daughter for whatever reason and that most likely pushed her need to be able to take care of herself, and the trust issues. I was really amazed, she seemed to get it.

I can understand someone being trapped by or feeling trapped by the nasty, evil or sick person, but actually "wanting" to be like that and make others like that? And yet, I know not my own blind spots.

It's weird, you can read about therapists and such, they can often seem to see a problem fairly quickly and say it out loud and to the people who need to hear. But in real life, where do you find these kinds of people?

I'm realizing AGAIN a lot of the problem is the triangulation. The girls are being taught to lie to me and not trust me ... and of course, knowing I am being lied to makes me wonder what I'm not getting that I really need to know. I started this battle; it's either going to kill me or something is going to give. And I do feel like that guy, Walter Mitty (?) always having the big hope and dream, only to get knocked down again. Hell, I don't even have a hope in the world of making a dent in the actual problem.

And you know something? When you read a book or watch a movie, there's always a "defining moment" when you KNOW, without a doubt, that the tide has turned. I have a feeling it is not that clear in real life, when and if it happens. At least maybe not til hindsight hits?

dadda, i want you to know that i have been reading your posts. I wish I had bits of advice or suggestions or anything, but this is so far out of what I have yet had to deal with I am at a loss.

Just know that you are strong and capable to get through it (even if that is not what you WANT to hear, you still need to hear it) Look inward and work on yourself and let the rest of them, as they are all adults now take care of them. You deserve better in life and you are the only one that can make it happen.

I think it is a bit like NC with the N, except that if and when they are ready they will make contact and then it is on your terms, not theirs. Take a break from it all.

Live

And little things help. I remember how much my older daughter, in particular, used to get red faced and angry, learning to pull herself up on furniture and her learning to walk ... there is no way I could "help" in that other than providing opportunity and encouragement and making sure no serious dangers. But did I grab her every time she or her sister "fell down and went boom"? No! And remembering all the emotion and effort that goes into just learning to walk ... I don't even remember my trials with it!

I have to remember that stuff. I sent my younger daughter an extremely long text the other day ... I talked about some of the things that might be sticky and she might not want to hear, but reminded her of truth ... that had she treated someone else, her friend even the way I was, well she KNOWS I would have spoken up. I reminded her of her past frustrations with school and how her semester would now be nearly over ... and that the money crunch and associated anxieties and embarrassment would have ended. I told her that I like her boyfriend (and he seems very nice and decent, but I don't KNOW him) and that my dearest wish is that if they stay together, they are both happy and have a mutually satisfying life ... and that she have a good heart.

Yesterday, I had a good albeit short talk with my older daughter. She made so much sense, and although she doesn't give me any credit (her father and I are "equal" in blame and all else; I was not talking about her father nor do I often), she actually confirmed something I suspected but wasn't sure of ... she is not going around certain relatives and she knows certain ones are liars. So I feel better about that. I am SO glad I raised them to be able to disagree with me and discuss things, logically. She was so poised and logical. I think we made some progress. I also spoke to her about her relationship with a young man and how it makes me uncomfortable because I think that there are things going on too fast ... I told her again, as I had with her sister, that I want her to be be happy and have a satisfying life (I think that "cheapening" physical involvement can hamper that, down the road, especially from my own perspective now). Just that I want her to think and realize that sometimes future consequences are not easily seen where she is now ... and I was talking heart, not babies or disease.

Just finished speaking with her boyfriend, who I apologized to (for anything inappropriate or making him and others uncomfortable). I explained that both my daughter and I could have handled things better but I am the "adult" and supposed to do a better job of it. That in 5 years, I WILL probably handle things better, having learned and gone through more ... gaining experience. That adults, if we were all behaving AS adults, a lot of this wouldn't even be happening. Plus, just acknowledging that this has all been hard, on my daughter AND myself. But that I don't want uncomfortable feelings between ... and that I am not a monster ... I love my daughter and want to know her friends & know who they are and that they are watching her back, too. I told him he has a nice voice, too ... because a lot of times, he walks in and doesn't talk or even look at me ... well, he did both and seems nice and I hope we made a connection and that will influence him positively, at least in little ways.

I have not heard back from the younger daughter. I hoped but she is like me in several respects that will carry her far, if she harnesses them the right way. A strong sense of justice, passion and determination for what she is interested in and values, and a heart of gold in terms of caring about others. So I am giving it to God and trusting my words come through to her and in the right way.

I am glad that I did not remain silent and I confronted the issues that led to the problems, instead of just "trying to get on their good side". I am glad I put accountability onto them as well as myself, making it that sometimes you can be "right" but you can also rise above and be the bigger person, to help someone you care about make some progress too. And I am glad that I acknowledged that I certainly don't have "all the answers" or know what to do ... especially in "crazy" situations ... I am just doing my best and it can be very hard, because I am hurting too (at times they treat me like I am just supposed to "turn off" my emotions and love and "get over it" so I am suspecting that may be part of their defenses, especially as it has "felt like" there have been walls where previously, there weren't ... none that I felt, anyway).

So I am somewhat cheered by things, for the moment. Oh, I also remembered to tell my younger daughter, in the text, about how I got "fleas" from the N interaction, so innocently at first ... and suggested she google that sometime. Maybe at some point I can help them see or they will just figure out that "normal" isn't normal, just because you grow up with it ... nor is it (definitely) not always healthy. But at least I know I have fallen prey and become "it" to a degree, here and there ... and acknowledge it, plus the very real damage it has done to my life.

Thanks for (all) your encouragement ... cause I really do feel a lot better ... and hopefully will continue to get sharper on catching traps and poison before falling into it ... you think there will be "an end" to discovery and learning and I just find myself more immersed in a world of discovery and in a way, wonder, as I see the whole world and people in it in completely new and different ways than I ever used to.