Oh Dadda, I am so sorry for this meltdown. I am not certain about the details, have an awareness about the outside interference in college and etc, but I guess I missed about the car.
I feel your pain.
I am childfree by choice since I knew I was too damaged... so I don't like to say too much... like a priest giving sex talks, right? BUT.... I observe.
This is a fork in the road, but I believe very strongly, i a large bet-worthy way, that you and he will hammer things out in good time. Obviously, I think I have seen this happen tons, and it was true in my life. Never were there two more disparate women than my (adopted and abusive) mother and I, but for many years before her early death we had managed to be the best of friends. It was a goal of my life that I actually realized. Decades later, that still feels good to me. That feel good will come to rest with you too. I prophesy.
Go ahead and cry, get it all out. You are a great mom, and she will come to appreciate you . All you need is time and patience and the resilience you have always shown.
This is just a jog in the trail of your continuing story with your loved one, not the end.

Oh, Dawn,

My heart breaks for you. There is absolutley nothing more hurtful than an child who rejects you. My daughter did that once . . . . because I stopped enabling her bad behavior. Still, I know it was the right thing for a parent to do. I am sure that is true in your case as well. I hope she comes back to her senses and comes back to you. How is your other daughter reacting?

You need to stand firm. Not just because it is "right thing" in terms of justice and fairness, but because it is the right thing to do for your daughter. She has to learn that you deserve respect . . . that you love her but will no longer allow her to disregard your feelings and your wellbeing. It hurts, I know. It hurts so deep and so painfully. Please vent . . . and vent . . . and vent. You need to get these feelings out for your own sanity. This is all the more painful because it comes at a time when you are already down.

Your daughter has been irresponsible and hurtful. Hopefully, she will come back to you in time, wiser and kinder. Just know that we all care and we all will listen and try to comfort you.

A thousand hugs coming your way.

Oh, Boydie, there are times I wish I had never brought children into this evil world. Just adopted some of those who are already here. Don't get me wrong, I love my daughters dearly. I had no idea ... I still can't fathom grandmothers who are excited when a new one enters the world I guess it gives me hope that other lives are not so full of pain. I just wish that I had gone through counseling before ...

And QuePasa, the other one is hating me as well. I was getting (finally) ready to sit down (they were already waiting) and I came in to the dining room and she leaned over and asked "Are you speeding?" As in drugs. Because I was running around most of the day, had worked and all. I take medication because of attention and because of having sleep attacks (in fact, some of the medication was missing the other month, so someone has been taking it and the daughter saying that was the only one here at that time). Her father and others have told the kids I am a druggie ... it helps me also to remain assertive, as I don't "lose the thread". So he hates it. I was off all medication for several years when I was away from here. In fact, most of my "marriage problems" didn't start until the doctor had tried it ... had to take all kinds of tests to check responses and memory, too. But that hurt ... she hates me too. I confronted her on her remark that I am a "pill abuser" and asked her to justify it ... she can't and I'm not allowed to talk. I've even been accused when I haven't been taking medication, so it's no win. I fell into the trap, there and tried to fix it ... but no go. So just had the big cry and my head hurts from it all now. Just feeling like it doesn't matter, it always ends up in destruction. I know "don't trust my feelings" necessarily but right now oh, God I hurt.

Sweetie, I feel your pain! About 8 years ago, I went through a similar ordeal with my oldest daughter. She was very disrespectful and didn't like it when I put my foot down, and said enough. Be strong and firm. Stand up for yourself.

It took a couple years before she and I were close again, but now things are wonderful. It just takes time. I had cancer 20 years ago, and could never have children. So all my kids are adopted; although, that wasn't exactly planned either. My sister (RIP) had a daughter and 2 sons, whom I ended up raising and adopting. They have put me through the ringer! Many challenges, but they truly are blessings.

Stay strong. It will get better. This too will pass . . . .

Dadda, I am so saddened to hear about your daughters. Truly it is the hardest
pain to deal with. I have dealt with so much pain in my life, so much abuse, but
the pain of a child's rejection weighs most heavily.

I'm afraid that's why narcs do this, why they cause the split. First, because they
can't stand others showing them up, as you most certainly have done by being
the responsible and accessible parent, and secondly, by driving a wedge in
between the non-disordered parent and their children. They love to cause pain
and grief, so you can carry their denied pain for them and they can feel in control
and powerful.

They love to make traps so they can be the hero. It is all such a sick game, I've
fallen into this trap many, many times. It's so heart wrenching to hear your
abusers words coming out of the mouth of a child. It's shocking and retrauma-
tizing.

Your belief in yourself and your courage to love yourself in the face of this evil,
(I don't know any other word for it), is the only way to combat this.
They DO want to break you, don't let them do it. Here on the board you have
many people who have witnessed your struggles and admire your strength
in the face of so much adversity. I am so in awe of your ability to work on
your own car and figure out solutions to problems that would baffle most of us.
You're like McGiver! Please don't let these sick people bring you down.
You deserve to be loved and cherished.

I am keeping you in my thoughts and prayers, Dadda. Don't give up, although
they may not realize this now, your daughters are in desperate need to witness
the actions and integrity of a non-personality disordered adult. While I write
this I realize too that I am trying to convince myself of my own words. So easy
to say, so very hard to do.

We are with you Dadda, take courage, you are such a warrior for truth. This
is just one battle, not the end of the story. HUGS ((((((((((((( ))))))))))))))))))

Dadda,

Betty and Spirit are correct. Focus on yourself for a while. You have earned that right. Hopefully, living a calm, happy life will impress your daughters and bring them back to you in time. Hugs.

Dadda, I know you are discouraged.It seems like everything is going wrong all at once. You may just need a break form you daughters. I call them vacations. One day you may wake up and know today is a good day to contact them. Some of my best learning times are my alone times. You are a good person who is doing the best you can. You are a very smart person. Most people couldn't do the things you are capable of doing such
as fix your car. You are a very strong person. Please up yourself first and know you can get through this trial. Please know we care about you here on DS. Sadly the people we love can cause us the most grief.I hope you cry and cry until you have let it all out and keep venting. Sending you lots of love, peace and hugs.

I will, I am trying and thank you!! I cried myself to sleep again and it was horrible, because I thought I was awake but was dreaming still and my younger daughter and the boyfriend were still here ... and the oldest had a friend who had jacked her car way up high to fix some wire ... everyone was laughing and happy ... then I woke up for real in the middle of all that and I have such a splitting headache and am crying again full bore. Everything hurts a lot right now and nothing ... last night, when I fell asleep crying, I could hear everyone in the next room laughing and talking and I felt like I didn't exist but the pain says otherwise.

And Betty, do please believe your words. Words are obviously powerful, although actions fill out whether they mean anything. I guess I am not sure if what I said, how I handled things and so on whether it added to the pain, were appropriate or not.

I guess I know that my ex has spent, excuse me wasted, 10s of thousands of $, instigated 3 divorces and has had a sexual relationship long term with someone else's wife ... and I have tried to get my daughters to a stable place before I am thrown out of here. I guess I can see that something is VERY wrong with the picture. But you know, I really think my younger daughter used me only for traveling funds and the older daughter I am merely a stress to, unless we are getting along. I spoke with her about the missing medicine, too and really got nowhere. And she hasn't paid anymore on any debts she owes me, either. A very hard time to get through. I wish this headache would quit. I guess in a way, I am seeing some logic (?) to how things are. If they are using me, there is no sense being around. I haven't been trying to enable them and sometimes it's a hard call, as I KNOW that they and I are victims, but as long as they are also in the "web" there is a chance that I will just get lip service and used. So much as it hurts I have to try to hold that as possible and maybe probable. I guess I can't understand why God can't strike down those doing the crap or their plans ... I'm tired of carrying pain and not a good martyr at all.

Quepasa, I hope I can figure a way to live a happy, calm life for a while. I did so before. But I guess I know I will not be seeing them for a while once this split is final, everything done. And trying to prepare my heart for that. All the dreams for bringing them up ... smashed beyond oblivion.

Oh dadda,
I am so sorry. I know how hurtful problems with your children can be. I had some very rough times with my son...but I am here to tell you things do turn around. I saw him both for my birthday earlier this month and at Thanksgiving.. He sent me an email where he said he loved me and that he wanted me to be happy, and how good it was to see me. 5 years ago...he would not be bothered with me. You know what they say things are always darkest before the dawn. There are social service agencies like fish or salvation army that give those that need them cars. Maybe you could put in application. I know you dont believe me...but this too will get better trust me. You have our love and support, hugs snow.

Your daughters need to treat you with respect. If they won't do this,
they shouldn't be accepting the $$ that you so badly need. They
probably know your guilt about the conflict in your marriage and the
divorce, and they are acting like young children do; exploiting this
to their advantage. Problem is, this doesn't help them and also they
aren't so young anymore and should be behaving like adults.

I've also deal with that jokey denial crap, with getting demeaning and
abusive messages and then everyone laughing it up and having a good
ole time. That's a sick narcissistic bonding ploy and I bet they've picked
this up from your narcissistic in-laws and your ex. No way do loving people
celebrate when their loved one is feeling so much grief. Not cool at all.
And disrespecting your mother at a Thanksgiving dinner that she's labored
on, with her hard earned $$ in your pocket??!!! That is so unacceptable.

They've obviously picked up some fleas from being with your ex and his
family. They need to treat you with respect and your ex et al are encouraging
disrespect. That puts yet another burden on you to draw the line in the sand.

Narcissists and their ilk just cause so much damage. I am so sorry that you
have been in their cross fire for so long. Your daughters will very likely get
a taste of their own medicine soon enough with your in-laws as they sound
very mind gamey and cruel. I think that when they realize, on their own,
without any buffer, what you've been going through all these years. they
will have a new found respect and appreciation for you.

Please take good care of yourself, give yourself a big hug and know we're
with you, hoping you the best. Hang in there Dadda (((((((HUGS)))))))

Snowy, I am so glad for you!! I wanted to say something to you last time I wrote, but was sort of afraid to in case it was "the same". I remember too there was a time I actually had to restrain one of our daughters to keep her from tearing the place up or hurting her sister ... it was a VERY difficult time. I remember I had bought a ring that I think I spent something like $80 on (a big chunk for me to spend on jewelry, but it was my "promise ring" to myself and "rubberband around the wrist" reminder, too) and it went flying off one time when she got upset and started going off, tearing up the house. I never think about the ring, it just came to mind and I never found it after, but I am glad to say that my daughter doesn't act like that anymore ... there have just been so many dark days and
I did tell my younger daughter that I felt like she just used me for the gas money to see her friends. What she did last night ... expecting me to replace the tires while I was working on her brakes, was NOT something a "normal" person would do and when I tried to make amends and told her I WOULD give her gas money but only if she let me change the pads and she refused and still tore off ... well, I don't know if I "should" have said that, but that is how I felt and now, still do. I mean, she was willing to lie to me up to a few days ago ... didn't bring the books so I could sell them ... I am wondering if she already did and just lying, sadly as she did not respond to a text.

I am trying to remember what I said ... I said this in front of both my daughter and her boyfriend, after she made some remarks to me that included, F'ing this and that ... that if she is saying THAT to me today, she will be saying it at him at some point ... I reiterated that she should get some counseling (or whatever will help get her head straight) BEFORE getting deeply involved in a relationship ... as they are talking (now) about living together next summer and etc ... and she has grown up with THIS nightmare as "example". Made me feel like a witch, but I did say that IF they remain together, I want them to be happy and have a satisfying and lasting relationship. So again, don't know ... I don't have any hints how best to deal with this craziness, other than my heart. And my heart has been shredded with pain and bounding with anger and hurt, so I just don't know ...

After my older daughter made her comment before dinner, I later confronted her with the inappropriateness of her remark and the fact that a lot of my medication had been missing and only she and her friends had been in the house ... again, don't know if that was best way, but I told her I think she owes me an apology ... if I was such a drug fiend, I'm sure I wouldn't have been letting half my medication disappear for I don't know how many months.

No apologies ... no surprise ... for now. I am finally feeling a little better, not much.

I'm sorry Dadda, I hope that I didn't come across sounding harsh, I think I
was mad at your daughters for how they were treating you. I'm probably
projecting all over the place, because I've gotten some similar treatment
from my son. It hurts so deeply, but it also makes me mad as hell.

You sound like you handled the situation with a lot of restraint, given what
they said to you. The drug fiend comment is so far off, your prescription
meds are none of their business. I guess that shows you how low narcs
and co. will go, I'm sure they didn't come up with that idea on their own.

OK, I'll stop. This situation is so similar to my own, I can feel a rant coming
on. Please take care. I'm glad you're feeling better.

I am so sorry, Dadda. Cry as much as you need. Sometimes it is the only thing that has helped me and it is detoxifying as well. At the end I usually feel I have come to some sort of acceptance even if the pain comes up again down the road. You've been through a lot and as others have said, it is time for you to focus on yourself and reach out for more help and support from other sources. I've had horrible fights with my mother at times over the years that cause me a great deal of pain and then somehow it all gets fixed and I just try to find ways to keep taking care of myself and not letting her get to me or the other half of my family who never seem to invite me home for Christmas. It really hurts every year and I am just trying to find that love and comfort in other place and to give it to myself as well! Sometimes when we just do our best to let go and put the focus back on ourselves a day at a time, things start looking a little better. I wish you the best with all this and my thoughts and heart are with you. Sometimes the best thing to do is to take and give space and remember to be gentle with yourself but do what you need to do as well.

My heart breaks for you Dadda. Our children that we nurtured with out own bodies can hurt a parent like no other can.

My children all initially beleived the tall tales their father concocted. Especially my oldest daughter who was very nasty to me. I tried show proof that what he was saying were lies and she refused to even listen. Those were some very hard and lonely years for me. There was little contact and what there was was strained. I made a choice to hold my head up high and live according to my own high standards. No, many years later they all see him for who he is and they see me for who I am. All five of them and their mates are proud of me now.

This won't take away the heartahe and pain of the present but you have not lost your daughters forever. Make your way with your own life Allow yourself to heal from the all the pain you have gone through so that someday they will learn to know and love the real you. You have put up with so much crap they, at this point, have never had a chance to know their real mother. But they eventually will and it will get better. Have courage.

First off: Betty, I am so sorry I missed you the last time round. And NO, you have not been harsh ... sometimes a true friend will say things that aren't "music to the ears" but NEED to be said to protect the other friend or at least wake them up, whatever. I just started reading on that link you sent me and yes, I am idealistic and unworldly, probably too much so for my own good. But maybe having found that eventually, grudges and revenge and all those low down games either destroy you as a human or the price is way to high ... I guess I think other people (more) would have figured it out by now. I try to do most of my learning the vicarious way, through others' experiences. And sometimes I sort of go on a limb, so to speak, but I appreciate too, all the cautionary comments that people have posted. As far as love and caring go, I wouldn't have it any other way. PLEASE watch my back ... I thank you and appreciate the fact that so many of you care!

And yes, I had with a sinking feeling, come to a lot of the same conclusions about the ultimate meanings to their behavior. The fact of no apology ... I apologize, I make amends best I can and I don't lie. I went on sort of a binge of "perfect" good behavior for a while after the first divorce; I'm sort of slacked in the "perfect" department, but it's a better habit to aim for as long as keeping humility, etc. I realize that when exNH and I started having problems, I was lying and not acting savory at times, and I had picked up more of that habit by being encouraged and nurtured in it. I do agree, corrupt company spoils morals and a lot besides. So yes, I had fleas too and I didn't like myself very well

ExNH says I am on drugs regardless; if I am assertive I am "on drugs". That was the big change he picked up on and he exploited a weakness; I know the medicine can be abused, but it does not give me happy, high feelings. I actually think about things that I would prefer I don't have to deal with. I have noticed that he does the same (throws red herrings) at other people and often it works.

I have caught on that they have "kept alive" things that would have been faded memories by now, if not for their actively doing that to encourage hatred for me in my daughters. I actually sat and thought about things from the past and came to the conclusion that in all the chaos and confusion, people's behavior could have been feeding off that ... and so I let a lot of it go, giving benefit of the doubt until that was no longer an option. I haven't known maybe what best to do, other than these types thrive in the secrecy and shame, so I have been exposing it.

Redfern and Oldandwiser, too, I appreciate everyone. Honestly, there are times I just want to throw in the towel, but I know I am not crazy and I know my kids are hurting and still being hurt. I know more than me "helping" them they need to be FREE of being pawns for a drama. I've been listening to more and I can see I don't always respond "the best" this has been like a pressure cooker; I know the stress on me is great. I don't know where my mind would be without the care and love and concern all of you have shown in many ways (and not just those who've posted on this), as well as some people around here. I sometimes forget I have friends and sometimes just the kindness of strangers, who've helped with my car, etc. I would have otherwise been a basket case or pretty darn close.

My younger daughter has blocked me or hidden her FB, so I guess is going the incommunicado route with me for now. As the older is not speaking ... Such a never ending nightmare for now ... but it will end. I just hope it ends better than it's looking 'cause I am tired and sort of puzzled as to any options ... and just tried to be proactive this whole time. Maybe not trying so hard would be better? I guess I'll never know and had to go with what I felt I could live with, having made plenty of mistakes and all that got me here.